Same ol' Woody

[AHF]

I don't think there is enough to go on here, but I hope this is not a continuation of Woody's historic philosophy of "the self-fulfilling prophecy." By that I refer to his strategy of:

* If I don't take out player X, they could be in serious foul trouble and not available to play later. I might miss out on 5 minutes of their time!

* Therefore, I will take player X out for 10 minutes and then player X will be more likely to be available later on.

* Now I have gone from the possibility of losing 5-10 minutes of player X's time to the certainty of losing 10 minutes of player X's time.

I particularly like this strategy when used with players who rarely foul out at all.

On a completely unrelated note, did you know that Jamal Crawford has never fouled out of a game in his entire career?

[Traceman]

I think that was the reason why he took Crawford out.

I think that the reason why (if) Crawford didn't come back in is either because A). Woody forgot about him or B). Woody doesn't trust him (yet).

Or perhaps C), JJ was defending Granger down the stretch, it was a close game and we were playing good D for the first time all game.

If we were struggling to score, then I could have seen Woody getting Crawford in the game but you don't put Crawford in the game in that situation. No way in heck was Woody supposed to sub for ANYBODY in the 4th the way those guys were playing down the stretch. Crawford will have his time, last night just wasn't it.

[exodus]

I don't think there is enough to go on here, but I hope this is not a continuation of Woody's historic philosophy of "the self-fulfilling prophecy." By that I refer to his strategy of:

* If I don't take out player X, they could be in serious foul trouble and not available to play later. I might miss out on 5 minutes of their time!

* Therefore, I will take player X out for 10 minutes and then player X will be more likely to be available later on.

* Now I have gone from the possibility of losing 5-10 minutes of player X's time to the certainty of losing 10 minutes of player X's time.

I particularly like this strategy when used with players who rarely foul out at all.

On a completely unrelated note, did you know that Jamal Crawford has never fouled out of a game in his entire career?

Just because he has never fouled out doesn't mean he couldn't foul out. And if he did actually foul out that would be traumatic for the Hawks because....... ummmm........ because the Hawks could get put on double secret probation. Can't let that happen.

[RedDawg#8]

What forward would you bring in to play SF and allow Mo to slide to the 2 if the goal is to rest the starters? Mo is our only capable backup SF unless you're ready to give minutes to Othello Hunter and he's only borderline capable of playing SF.

I was thinking he coulda put Marv back in, i wasnt sure if he was already in at PF tho, in which case bring Joe Smith in to slide Marv down to the SF.

Im not saying we couldnt have brought in a starter, but that I'd rather that starter be Marv, Josh or Al, instead of Joe to close out the 3rd. Preferably Marv since he was having a quietly productive night.

The whole point being lets not use Joe during the moments when we dont absolutely need him and there are other optins to go with. Like I said its nit-picking but seconds add up to minutes which also add up.

If players dont get the time now to try to hold their own w/o Joe then they will never build up the confidence to. Woody really has to push himself to pay attention to Joe and the other starters minutes this season. It will be uncomfortable at first but hes got to just sit through the frustrations and let the TEAM grow now not just the starting unit.

Edited October 29, 2009 by RedDawg#8

[tbhawksfan]

A lot of posts to try and rationalize Woodson's rotations....It all boils down to one thing...Same Ol' Woody :help wanted3:

[MaceCase]

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20091028&game=INDATL

Just in case guys want to cite Woody's substitution patterns for the entire season you can go here. He seemed to start off with JJ sitting the end and beginning of quarters until he panicked the last seconds of the 3rd then had Joe go the rest of the way.

[HawksBalla]

A lot of posts to try and rationalize Woodson's rotations....It all boils down to one thing...Same Ol' Woody :help wanted3:

Exactly. All the Woody apologists rush to damage control, making excuses for him. I would love it if Woody proves me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

[DJlaysitup]

Exactly. All the Woody apologists rush to damage control, making excuses for him. I would love it if Woody proves me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

Woody is a workin man...he has to hit 50 wins or go back to being an assistant at Detroit. I don't blame him much.....besides, he has to manage a bunch of new guys who aren't really interested in being role players - they want another contract. Actually Woody might be a better manager than a coach. Just don't hurt Smoove in your semi-annual locker room fights Woodster.

That might sound comical but Woody is a large man - about 6'6" and 260 pounds.

Edited October 30, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[TheNorthCydeRises]

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20091028&game=INDATL

Just in case guys want to cite Woody's substitution patterns for the entire season you can go here. He seemed to start off with JJ sitting the end and beginning of quarters until he panicked the last seconds of the 3rd then had Joe go the rest of the way.

Wow . . . that site instantly becomes a top reference point for me the rest of the year. You can say that Woody panicked . . or that he did the right thing. Fact is, the 2nd unit was doing little to stop anybody in that game last night. So to win the game, Woody went to his starters.

When you look at the "rest" JJ got in the middle of the 3rd, it seems like Woody had every intention of playing him the entire 4th if need be. When a guy is your best offensive and defensive player, that's just the way things will be when the games are close.

I've been telling you guys about Crawford. If that guy doesn't have it going offensively, he becomes a liability, because he's NOT going to get the job done defensively. And to be honest, Teague has to be decent defensively as well. I'm like Hotlanta . . you can't let Earl Watson, of all people, go off like that.

Woody will just have to keep experimenting with the lineup, to get the right mix in the game. Playing the entire bench in the game at the same time, probably isn't the way to go. He'll proabably have to keep at least one starter in at all times. Either that, or reduce the miniutes of either Teague or Joe Smith.

But that game flow chart shows exactly why Woody did what he did. Like Woody said . . . he's not sacrificing games in order to get guys minutes. Good for him.

[Atlantaholic]

I hate Woody as much as the next rational Hawks fan, but lets give the guy at least a few games before we pass judgment. ok?

I mean the bench is still meshing, and it's not like they were playing that great anyway. Crawford will have better games, and hopefully during those games Joe will be able to get some more rest.

[Admin]

http://popcornmachin...028&game=INDATL

Just in case guys want to cite Woody's substitution patterns for the entire season you can go here. He seemed to start off with JJ sitting the end and beginning of quarters until he panicked the last seconds of the 3rd then had Joe go the rest of the way.

Man that is pretty cool. I wonder where they are getting their data for that.

[jerrywest]

Man that is pretty cool. I wonder where they are getting their data for that.

Moderators,

You got to add this to the links on top.

[Admin]

Moderators,

You got to add this to the links on top.

I actually added it a little while ago but you'll have to do a CTRL + F5 to force your browser cache to be cleared to get the updated file.

Edit - I also added it to our schedule to where it will be dynamic so you can go to each game right from our schedule page. Look for the "Game Flow" link to the right of the page for each game.

[AHF]

I actually added it a little while ago but you'll have to do a CTRL + F5 to force your browser cache to be cleared to get the updated file.

Edit - I also added it to our schedule to where it will be dynamic so you can go to each game right from our schedule page. Look for the "Game Flow" link to the right of the page for each game.

Cool site and great integration here!

[Admin]

How 'bout some love for "Same ol' Woody" now? I mean we can slam him left and right when he has a poor game coaching but where is the praise for when he coaches a good game and actually manages his bench well? Other than Al playing too many minutes (which could be due to Zaza playing poorly) I think the minute distribution was excellent.

[TheTruth]

I already gave him his credit...but he has to do it consistently. Yes, Horford probably played so much because ZAZA has looked terrible this year so far. He might give more minutes to either Joe Smith (to slide over) or even Collins if that keeps up.