Less Marvin, more Crawford/Joe Smith has helped to change Hawks profile

[hawks21]

Where was Marvin in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter? Friday's road win vs. the Celtics has given Mike Woodson and the Hawks' team a blueprint of how to beat good teams on the road.

Less Marvin. More Crawford. A few more minutes for Joe Smith.

Marvin may still start games, but it looks like Jamal will finish games.

Joe Smith played quality minutes and during crunch time, he was out there giving the Hawks much needed veteran leadership in the post. Joe Smith is past his athletic prime, but he is savvy player who can help this Hawks' team get over the proverbial hump.

Jamal Crawford is doing what we needed Marvin to do for the last few years, be a confident secondary scoring option in support of Joe Johnson. Marvin's inability to embrace that role may have now begin to affect his minutes on the court and especially during crunch time. If Marvin wants to be a spectator, then he can be...from the bench!

Boston made their run, and Paul Pierce and his fake injuries and whining couldn't Boston in the 4th..The Hawks responded and its a very important first step toward becoming a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM.

On a side note, I was happy to see Jeff Teague get some playing time on the road and provide a change of pace. Teague also changes the Hawks profile at the guard position and I would love to see Teague use his skills against opposing teams and cause mismatches.

[Joker]

Until Marvin learns how to contribute on offense without getting a lot of shots, he will be on the bench when it matters. Great game by the Hawks.

[DJlaysitup]

I have no problem with Marvin starting...but he was where he should be in the fourth quarter at crunch time.

[hawks21]

I have no problem with Marvin starting...but he was where he should be in the fourth quarter at crunch time.

I don't forsee Marvin complaining about his playing time to the media and causing a ruckus. It seems Jamal doesn't mind not starting. So it works for both Jamal and Marvin....and the Hawks.... I wish Marvin would SHOW MORE FORTITUDE on the court but it is what it is. Woodson can't depend on Marvin in games like this one... and for Marvin he hasn't a 20 point night vs. an above .500 team since 2007.

[mrhonline]

When Marvin and Zaza figure out how to contribute consistently, this team might have something...

[HawksBalla]

The one thing I noticed about Marvin on offense is that he doesnt move much. He seems to just hang out by the 3-point line. He needs to move more...set picks, go towards the ball, something.

That said, I would have liked to have seen Marvin come in to stick Pierce. I still think he's more valuable then Crawford when it comes to defense.

Also, I wish we could get JJ a little more rest. Play Craw and Marvin, let JJ get a little break here and there. I dont want to see another JJ collapse in January because we burn him up in November and December.

[TheTruth]

I don't forsee Marvin complaining about his playing time to the media and causing a ruckus. It seems Jamal doesn't mind not starting. So it works for both Jamal and Marvin....and the Hawks.... I wish Marvin would SHOW MORE FORTITUDE on the court but it is what it is. Woodson can't depend on Marvin in games like this one... and for Marvin he hasn't a 20 point night vs. an above .500 team since 2007.

Gotta agree with all of this. The SF position should offer the team consistent offense. Scoring less than 10 pts/game with his minutes is not gonna cut it. He just can't hit anything right now/ Unfortunately, we have no SF that is head and shoulders better than Marvin, so we are stuck with him for now. But man, he better get his act together because him just contributing on the defensive end is no longer cutting it. If he can provide some offense of us, that means less minutes for JJ.

By the way, by Crawford NOT starting, he may very well have a career year. Imagine that. His defense may not be stellar, but he sure has changed his ability to pass since joining us.

[Diesel]

When Marvin and Zaza figure out how to contribute consistently, this team might have something...

Zaza did OK. He was our offensive rebounder that kept us in the first.

Marvino on the other hand... :cant believe:

[Wretch]

Marvin needs the mentality that Crawfard has on offense. He rarely, if ever, looks for his shot. There was a time when he would take it strong to the basket (although he had trouble finishing) and he even had a little running hook...what happened to that? He was drawing fouls and making that shot. Right now, he's not playing like a difference maker. He's just standing and waiting for the game (the ball) to come to him. We need more out of him in the starting lineup. He's got to get more aggressive.

[Wurider05]

Marvin is playing horrible offensively but its not hurting us right now. He is driving to the basket more but his stuff is just not going in. One thing I will give him credit for if he deserves any is the fact that he will never try to shoot himself out of a slump. He should come around soon. He better come around soon!!

Woody deserves some if the blame but most of it falls on Marvin. I will say 65/35 in favor of Marvin.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Wurider05

[benhillboy]

You guys sure have a lot of hope for Marvin. Give it up. If Rick Sund is a s good a GM as most think, he'll find a way to dump Marvin's grotesque salary before the deadline, because after last night and the winning streak we went on last year without him, it seems evident that he can be easily replaced, probably cheaper, for the better of the team. Hell, the Celtics found a way to use Shelden Williams (lol).

There's some fool franchise who thinks they can mold Marvin, so let them have him.

As far as Crawford, and Joe for that matter, those shots fell last night. Wonderful. Fact of the matter is, many of the big ones they hit in crunch time were ABSOLUTELY AWFUL in terms of selection, but Crawford's shots seemed quite devastating to the Celtics, because they were shots that they wanted to force: long jumpers, fade-aways. It's like they gave up when they realized that he could do this for another quarter. Also, there's probably nothing worse than unforced traveling turnovers, something they both do over and over. Pathetic.

Bibs, Al, and Josh drove that win, Joe and Jamal just added a little flash down the stretch.

Let's Go Hawks!

[yardbird]

Remember Joe calling out the team about players trying to do more than their role? This team doesn't need significantly more points from Marvin as much as it does his defense and rebounding. He's not shooting as well as in years past, but it's pretty early in the season, so that will probably change over the long haul. Additional offense from Marvin is a bonus at this point.

Stop nitpicking Marvin 9 games into the season and be happy the overall team is in a good position. There will be games when he'll hit a clutch shot at a key point that is key to a win. He's a solid player, if not spectacular, and he contributes to the overall success of the team. Go Hawks!

[mrhonline]

The irony is that his stats aren't really that far off except in two categories - perimeter shooting and passing.

BTW, Marvin doesn't set screens for a reason. His job is to be on the opposite side of the court of the ISO-guard, be it JJ or Crawford. The Hawks offense is specifically designed to maximize the 1-on-1 opportunities of a couple of players at the expense of others.

The good news is that Marvin's cost isn't bad relative to his role. I will always wonder how he'd do in a different system...

[Diesel]

The irony is that his stats aren't really that far off except in two categories - perimeter shooting and passing.

BTW, Marvin doesn't set screens for a reason. His job is to be on the opposite side of the court of the ISO-guard, be it JJ or Crawford. The Hawks offense is specifically designed to maximize the 1-on-1 opportunities of a couple of players at the expense of others.

The good news is that Marvin's cost isn't bad relative to his role. I will always wonder how he'd do in a different system...

Why is it then, when he is replaced by Crawford, Craw does a much better job of finding scores from the same position?

[mrhonline]

Crawford is a vastly superior offensive player, for sure. However, Marvin is a vastly superior defensive player. Look at the +/- with and without Marvin in the lineup. It's a tale of two stories - offense is better without him, defense is worse without him.

Marvin is a role player. Crawford is a role player. Zaza is a role player. Joe Smith is a role player. Mo Evans is a role player.

There's no sense in complicating things anymore, Diesel.

[Buzzard]

Crawford is a vastly superior offensive player, for sure. However, Marvin is a vastly superior defensive player. Look at the +/- with and without Marvin in the lineup. It's a tale of two stories - offense is better without him, defense is worse without him.

Marvin is a role player. Crawford is a role player. Zaza is a role player. Joe Smith is a role player. Mo Evans is a role player.

Agreed but Crawford was impressive last night and has been all season. Sund is a frigging genius! I dont care who starts; I just care about who wins...

Go Hawks!

[hawkman]

Agreed but Crawford was impressive last night and has been all season. Sund is a frigging genius! I dont care who starts; I just care about who wins...

Go Hawks!

Agreed. But looking back at the 2009 draft, it may not have been a bad idea to burn a future 2nd on a Sam Young or that Brown kid from Xavier to push Marv a little. It's been mentioned before, but it's kind of ironic that Marv may be the only "true" SF left after BK drafted a slew of 6'8"-6'9" players a few years ago.

[Buzzard]

Agreed. But looking back at the 2009 draft, it may not have been a bad idea to burn a future 2nd on a Sam Young or that Brown kid from Xavier to push Marv a little. It's been mentioned before, but it's kind of ironic that Marv may be the only "true" SF left after BK drafted a slew of 6'8"-6'9" players a few years ago.

That is funny! I bet Sund does something great next off season as well. Chilz rights is a wild card IMO. This may be why he did not want to do a deal with the Bucks; he could end up back with us or being a possible starter somewhere else in a SNT.

[frankthetank966]

The Hawks are probably going to go with a similar look as the Spurs. Ginobli starts on the bench and in close games, he finishes.