RLHawk Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 I was trying to go through an analysis of the team and why we were showing so well this year, and I think the team is well constructed, with one big question mark. What is Marvin Williams role? Bibby is the point...with the ability to hit outside shots....got it! JJ is the main scoring threat...inside and outside...got it! JSmoove is the defensive presence in the lane with athletism to score cutting and in the post...got it! Horford is the athletic Center that can score in the post and on the break...got it! JCrawford is the 6th man scoring machine...got it! Joe Smith is the defensive big off the bench...got it! Pasculia is the big avg center off the bench...got it! But when I get to Marvin, I can not really figure it out. Is her the scoring SF? No Is he the defensive leader? No Is he the perpetual outside threat? No Is the the athletic runner for breaks and cuts? No Does he drive and dish? No so what does he bring the team? All I come up with is we drafted him high, so we need him... Help me out, why is better for us than any other average starting SF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 I was trying to go through an analysis of the team and why we were showing so well this year, and I think the team is well constructed, with one big question mark. What is Marvin Williams role? Bibby is the point...with the ability to hit outside shots....got it! JJ is the main scoring threat...inside and outside...got it! JSmoove is the defensive presence in the lane with athletism to score cutting and in the post...got it! Horford is the athletic Center that can score in the post and on the break...got it! JCrawford is the 6th man scoring machine...got it! Joe Smith is the defensive big off the bench...got it! Pasculia is the big avg center off the bench...got it! But when I get to Marvin, I can not really figure it out. Is her the scoring SF? No Is he the defensive leader? No Is he the perpetual outside threat? No Is the the athletic runner for breaks and cuts? No Does he drive and dish? No so what does he bring the team? All I come up with is we drafted him high, so we need him... Help me out, why is better for us than any other average starting SF? His role is to be any of the things that you listed above on a given night, depending on what the team needs in that particular game. He is not our primary scorer (JJ is) but we will need him to score on some nights. He is not our most impactful defender (Smoove is) but we need him to defend the opposing team's best player on most nights. His shot is WAY off but he WAS a perpetual outside threat on most nights LAST season. No reason he can't be again. He DOES run the floor well and he finishes well on the break. He should cut more but he has done that as well (see big layup in 4th to give us the lead in the POR game off the pass from Smoove). He's not much of a drive and dish guy but he has shown the ability to get to the line off the drive. Bottom line, we need Marvin for his versatility on both ends of the floor. He hasn't put it together yet this season but he will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachx Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) But when I get to Marvin, I can not really figure it out. Is he the defensive leader? No Help me out, why is better for us than any other average starting SF? His defensive role it to guard the best wing player who is 6'6'' to 6'11'' so that JJ does not have to waist his energy on that throughout the game. Much like Artest does and Ariza did for Kobe. This lets JJ save more energy. His offensive role is to space the floor and make the open perimeter shot when its there and to take the ball in the paint agressively when the rest of the offense is cold. He is also an ideal size , at 6'9'' with a high standing reach and wingspan, to switch on to a PF or C for a possesion or two as Woody instructs his players to do. He did both his offensive and defensive roles very well last year. All he has to do is find his shooting touch from last year. With Crawford on the team and Horford / Smoove scoring more in the paint, Marvin will not be looked at to score as much. If you were a fan in the 80's and 90's he is basically a carbon copy of a tough defender with a versatile game named Derrick McKey: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/derrick_mckey/ Hopefully Marvin can keep his 3 point shot more consistent then McKey did. One year McKey would be hot from 3..........then the next year he would go cold. Hopefully Marvin can find his shot and keep it hot. With his beautiful form on his jumper its should just be a matter of time before it comes back around. Edited November 18, 2009 by coachx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunt91 Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Heck Marvin doesn't even know his own role, that's why he is struggling. He went from being the 4thoption to probably the 5th or 6th scoring option this year. Maybe he should try to mold his game like J-chill and try to score off of missed shots and running the floor own fast breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 His role right now seems to be to see how bad he can suck on offense without actually causing a loss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 I think that the reason Marvin is struggling is pretty simple, he's not getting set when he shoots. Pay close attention to him and you'll notice that he's back to drifting to one side when he shoots like he did 2 years ago. I honestly believe that if we can get him to settle into a spot and either take the set shot or let him decide to drive that he'd immediately go back to performing like he did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Heck Marvin doesn't even know his own role, that's why he is struggling. He went from being the 4thoption to probably the 5th or 6th scoring option this year. Maybe he should try to mold his game like J-chill and try to score off of missed shots and running the floor own fast breaks. I think Marvin knows his role very well. It really hasn't changed much since last year other than the fact that Crawford is now our #2 scoring threat. Marvin can and should be doing the same thngs he did last year. He'll get it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLSmith Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Does Woody know what Marvin's role is? Does the rest of the team? To me, he needs to be a terrific defender at SF (which is is already to a large extent). He also needs to more consistent shooting the 3 and the team needs to allow him to take the shot, ie. hit him when he's open. You see players pass the ball all the time to Mo, Joe, Bibby, and Jamal when they are open beyond the arch. Even when these players aren't shooting particularly well they will still get the ball. It just seems like Marv gets 1 or 2 shots, and if he misses, no one goes back to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzy Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 His role right now seems to be to see how bad he can suck on offense without actually causing a loss. Thats so funny because its pretty true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkItus Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 We're the new bad boys. Thomas/Dumars/Johnson = Bibby/Johnson/Crawford Rodman/Mahorn/Laimbeer/Salley/Edwards/Aguire = Smoove/Marvin/Al/Pachulia/Joe Smith/Evans It's not a player to player direct translation, but how the units affected the team. Our guards give us our punch for scoring and keep us steady. Our forwards are the heart and passion of the team. Together its magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Wretch Posted November 18, 2009 Premium Member Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Marvin's role is to stand there and wait for a shot. Marvin's attitude is that of a total team player. So, until Marvin decides to be more aggressive - and really work on that aspect of his game - he will continue to be a 4th or 5th option. This isn't really new and Crawford's arrival has only magnified it. I hate it though, because he's capable of contributing much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLHawk Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 His defensive role it to guard the best wing player who is 6'6'' to 6'11'' so that JJ does not have to waist his energy on that throughout the game. Much like Artest does and Ariza did for Kobe. This lets JJ save more energy. The challenge that I have in figuring out his role is does he do this? and does he do it well? I would not mind him being our Artest if he is up to the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaceCase Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) His defensive role it to guard the best wing player who is 6'6'' to 6'11'' so that JJ does not have to waist his energy on that throughout the game. Much like Artest does and Ariza did for Kobe. This lets JJ save more energy. His offensive role is to space the floor and make the open perimeter shot when its there and to take the ball in the paint agressively when the rest of the offense is cold. He is also an ideal size , at 6'9'' with a high standing reach and wingspan, to switch on to a PF or C for a possesion or two as Woody instructs his players to do. He did both his offensive and defensive roles very well last year. All he has to do is find his shooting touch from last year. With Crawford on the team and Horford / Smoove scoring more in the paint, Marvin will not be looked at to score as much. If you were a fan in the 80's and 90's he is basically a carbon copy of a tough defender with a versatile game named Derrick McKey: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/derrick_mckey/ Hopefully Marvin can keep his 3 point shot more consistent then McKey did. One year McKey would be hot from 3..........then the next year he would go cold. Hopefully Marvin can find his shot and keep it hot. With his beautiful form on his jumper its should just be a matter of time before it comes back around. Right on the head, Coach. Spacing seems to be his primary role on offense as he always operates on the opposite side of the ball and works as a release valve. I have noticed lately that he will dive in to the paint more to create a target but mainly anticipating JJs shot for an O rebound opportunity. Many discount his defense because they think he has been touted as a "stopper" and judge him on a possession to possession basis, not paying mind to him off the ball but the numbers bare it out. He impacts the team defensively despite his recent horrid offensive performances. Perhaps he learned that from Jason Collins. Edited November 18, 2009 by CrawfulToCrawesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted November 19, 2009 Premium Member Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I was trying to go through an analysis of the team and why we were showing so well this year, and I think the team is well constructed, with one big question mark. What is Marvin Williams role? Bibby is the point...with the ability to hit outside shots....got it! JJ is the main scoring threat...inside and outside...got it! JSmoove is the defensive presence in the lane with athletism to score cutting and in the post...got it! Horford is the athletic Center that can score in the post and on the break...got it! JCrawford is the 6th man scoring machine...got it! Joe Smith is the defensive big off the bench...got it! Pasculia is the big avg center off the bench...got it! But when I get to Marvin, I can not really figure it out. Is her the scoring SF? No Is he the defensive leader? No Is he the perpetual outside threat? No Is the the athletic runner for breaks and cuts? No Does he drive and dish? No so what does he bring the team? All I come up with is we drafted him high, so we need him... Help me out, why is better for us than any other average starting SF? You will hear a lot of things.. But the truth is Marvin is the non-impact starter. He has no real impact on the game. IF he happens to do well in any of the categories that you mention (even if by stat and not by true play) there is a syndicate on this board that will praise him and say that he's a good _______________. However, he's not the best at anything and at the same time, he's doesn't exhibit all of those characteristics either. He lacks the agressiveness for any of those. Therefore, Marvin is an 8 million dollar non impact player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jy23 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 With the weapons that we have on the team we don't need him for much, if he plays good d and starts to knock down that 3 again then I'm happy. He should basically be what Ariza was with the Lakers last year, he didn't get plays ran for him but he found his ways to score and made an impact in other ways. He'll find his stroke eventually and we'll be an even more dangerous team than we are now..............COME ONNNNNNNNNNNN MARV!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillent Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 His role is to be any of the things that you listed above on a given night, depending on what the team needs in that particular game. He is not our primary scorer (JJ is) but we will need him to score on some nights. He is not our most impactful defender (Smoove is) but we need him to defend the opposing team's best player on most nights. His shot is WAY off but he WAS a perpetual outside threat on most nights LAST season. No reason he can't be again. He DOES run the floor well and he finishes well on the break. He should cut more but he has done that as well (see big layup in 4th to give us the lead in the POR game off the pass from Smoove). He's not much of a drive and dish guy but he has shown the ability to get to the line off the drive. Bottom line, we need Marvin for his versatility on both ends of the floor. He hasn't put it together yet this season but he will. :thumbsupsmileyanim: Well Said!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay2theAlady Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 His role right now seems to be to see how bad he can suck on offense without actually causing a loss. Sad but true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Throw his butt around, draw fouls, hit free throws. What else can he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 You will hear a lot of things.. But the truth is Marvin is the non-impact starter. He has no real impact on the game. IF he happens to do well in any of the categories that you mention (even if by stat and not by true play) there is a syndicate on this board that will praise him and say that he's a good _______________. However, he's not the best at anything and at the same time, he's doesn't exhibit all of those characteristics either. He lacks the agressiveness for any of those. Therefore, Marvin is an 8 million dollar non impact player. So in your opinion Marvin and Woody got together at some point and time decided this is the role for Marvin :help wanted3: I think Marvins role is to spread the floor, guard and draw contact from what is usually the 2nd or 3rd best scoring threat on our opponents team, get out on the break, hit the boards, and fit in with our guards who handle the ball 70% of the time on just about every possesion. How could anyone that has watched our games since Marvin was drafted not know his role? Hopefully Marvins last game was a indicator that he broke out of his slump. We need Marvin to play well; it makes us that much more dangerous a team. Marvin gives us another outside threat; same as when Maurice Evans is in the game. But Marvin is a better scorer, rebounder, defender and proven all this over a 4 year period. I am sorry you cannot forgive Marvin for not being the player BK drafted with the 2nd pick. But you really should flame BK for his mistake every chance you get; and not Marvin. Marvin and Evans have the same roles but Marvin is better than Evans and therefore our best SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusBoyIsBack Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) I think the problem is that Marvin is having an identity crisis. He doesn't know his own role and I don't think this coaching staff does either. As mentioned Marvin is not even a top 5 option on this team anymore. I think his psyche may have taken a hit because of it as well. I can tell already that he's the new whipping boy on this team now that Acie Law is gone and everyone is is pretty much clicking. Marvin is the one guy who's struggling. Which I tend to look at the positives of. If we are this good with Marvin this bad, imagine how good we could be even if Marvin was as good as he was last year? I am sorry you cannot forgive Marvin for not being the player BK drafted with the 2nd pick. But you really should flame BK for his mistake every chance you get; and not Marvin. Marvin and Evans have the same roles but Marvin is better than Evans and therefore our best SF. Yeah as much as people are bashing Marvin, Mo Evans is the guy I cringe the most when he plays right now. His game has really taken a step back with all the changes to this team. He can't make a wide open shot anymore. I know Marvin hit the side of the backboard the other day, but Mo Evans has been even more erratic and it was a couple of times when he missed a wide open shot and gave up an and 1 on the other end. Edited November 20, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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