Hawks-Pistons

[TheTruth]

It is hard (and asinine) to contradict any of that, but I bet your bottom dollar some apologist will...

[spotatl]

If you think the Hawks have a great bench thats great- Personally I don't agree. Crawford is a good player.. Zaza is a decent backup center. Evans can be useful if he is hitting from the outside. But I don't think that Teague is ready. I think that Joe Smith is over the hill and shouldn't be counted on at all unless the Hawks have injuries or foul trouble. I think its ridiculous the Hawks gave Collins a guaranteed contract. If the ASG were willing to pay the luxury tax to make the team a contender then the bench would be stronger.

If my job depended on winning then I would be playing with a short bench as well.

Edited November 30, 2009 by spotatl

[Atlantaholic]

If you think the Hawks have a great bench thats great- Personally I don't agree. Crawford is a good player.. Zaza is a decent backup center. Evans can be useful if he is hitting from the outside. But I don't think that Teague is ready. I think that Joe Smith is over the hill and shouldn't be counted on at all unless the Hawks have injuries or foul trouble. I think its ridiculous the Hawks gave Collins a guaranteed contract. If the ASG were willing to pay the luxury tax to make the team a contender then the bench would be stronger.

If my job depended on winning then I would be playing with a short bench as well.

I don't get it Woodson. You yourself said that you needed to play the bench more this year. When it was asked what the main thing you would have to do to improve as a coach you yourself stated that one of the main things was limiting JJ's minutes. Is it safe to assume you feel you have been doing a good job if this so far?

[JackB1]

What's sad is that everyone else had a nice game today but Joe. Joe never seems to realize when he's off and thinks he can shoot his way out of everything. Josh had a great night from the field. Joe passes up half of his shots and passes the ball, we probably win this one easy.

Edited November 30, 2009 by JackB1

[spotatl]

The Hawks lost because the pistons had more offensive rebounds than the Hawks had defensive rebounds.

[High5]

The Hawks lost because the pistons had more offensive rebounds than the Hawks had defensive rebounds.

Wouldn't have mattered if Joe didn't play like an *ss. Everyone has off nights, but Joe turns all of his off nights into horrendous nights. It doesn't help that our coach is also an *ss.

[Plainview1981]

Wouldn't have mattered if Joe didn't play like an *ss. Everyone has off nights, but Joe turns all of his off nights into horrendous nights. It doesn't help that our coach is also an *ss.

JJ needs to be gone. Funny, on black friday they had his jersey at Wal-Mart for 10 bucks and I couldn't get myself to buy it.

[Buzzard]

Buzzard- if you want Woodson fired what do you think the odds are the the ASG pays what it would take to get a HOF caliber coach in here? If the Hawks had a chance to get Adelman in here thats great but I don't see anything to make me think the ASG would pay what it takes to get the kind of coach in here you want.

And I'll continue to laugh at anyone who wants to blame the hawks giving up offensive rebounds on woodson. Thats just pretty much proves to me you will pin every single loss on Woodson no matter what happens on the court.

I guess in your mind it proves a lot. But in reality what it proves is only what I said: when a team plays below their capabilities during any facet of the game it is on both the players and the coach to adjust. Now you can argue against this all you want; but its not going to do you one bit of good....basketball is a team sport and a head coach can set a team up for failure just as easily as he can for success.

Now the rest of your ramblings about what the ASG will and will not pay to get a good coach here is pure speculation; and has nothing to do with the fact of whether or not you think Woody is a all-star or HOF caliber coach.

I think this team deserves that caliber of coach. They have shown over the last few years the talent is there to beat anyone. We need a coach that squeezes every drop of talent out of them. I don't think Woody does this on most nights...

Edited November 30, 2009 by Buzzard

[spotatl]

I don't think that Woodson is a HOF caliber coach- I think he is better than half the coaches in the league and thats enough for me to not fire him when I think that the ASG would not pay what it takes to get someone in better. And I think that fans put FAR too much stock in how much coaching matters in the NBA. Look at how Doc Rivers "outcoached" Phil Jackson. It comes down to how the players actually do on the court. And when the Hawks lose a game because the other team just WANTS the ball more and you are still blaming Woodson then I think you need to wake up to reality. If you think that loss is because of Woodson then I don't think you'll EVER say that a loss was because of the players. Which means that you think the Hawks would go undefeated if they simply had a better coach. But I'll wait anxiously for the unicorn to come prancing by when you actually do say that a loss is on the players and not Woodson.

Edited November 30, 2009 by spotatl

[macdaddy]

Its always been this way with Woody. We start the season playing a lot of guys and then a month in we're down to 6 guys getting huge minutes and one or two playing a little bit. Its hard for me to swallow the idea that Jamal, Joe Smith, Mo, Zaza are 'not worth a damn' since they've proven otherwise in their time in the league. Nothing Woody is doing this year is unexpected or out of character. Its the expectation that he would change that is crazy.

Its also very hard to believe that we would have so many 'lazy' players. I could see having one or two but we seem to have a whole team of lazy, stupid players. In fact, players who weren't lazy and stupid in other uniforms somehow look lazy and stupid with us. Is it good enough to just tell the team "you need to get rebounds, protect the ball, drive to the hole" and then when they don't do it say "hey its not my fault I told them to get rebounds they just didn't do it".

[spotatl]

If Sund wanted the Hawks to have someone who could help on the boards he should have drafted Dejuan Blair. The Hawks don't have anyone who is a top 20 rebounder at their position (according to ESPN). I'd say that Horford is the only guy who is an above average rebounder for their position. When the Hawks are getting killed on the defensive glass who is Woodson supposed to put in? Zaza is a good offensive rebounder in his career but has never been great on the defensive boards. Joe Smith has not been a strong rebounder the past 2 seasons. I just don't see what Woodson is supposed to do. When that ball goes up in the air its up to the players to get it.

[Kimsey]

I don't think that Woodson is a HOF caliber coach- I think he is better than half the coaches in the league and thats enough for me to not fire him when I think that the ASG would not pay what it takes to get someone in better. And I think that fans put FAR too much stock in how much coaching matters in the NBA. Look at how Doc Rivers "outcoached" Phil Jackson. It comes down to how the players actually do on the court. And when the Hawks lose a game because the other team just WANTS the ball more and you are still blaming Woodson then I think you need to wake up to reality. If you think that loss is because of Woodson then I don't think you'll EVER say that a loss was because of the players. Which means that you think the Hawks would go undefeated if they simply had a better coach. But I'll wait anxiously for the unicorn to come prancing by when you actually do say that a loss is on the players and not Woodson.

If you think Wood is a top 15 coach in the league you have serious flaws in your basketball assessments.

[Atlantaholic]

Its always been this way with Woody. We start the season playing a lot of guys and then a month in we're down to 6 guys getting huge minutes and one or two playing a little bit. Its hard for me to swallow the idea that Jamal, Joe Smith, Mo, Zaza are 'not worth a damn' since they've proven otherwise in their time in the league. Nothing Woody is doing this year is unexpected or out of character. Its the expectation that he would change that is crazy.

Yup, pretty much. Joe Smith and Mo were good enough to get playing time in Cleveland and Orlando (Mo was their starter) but not good enough to get into the game for Mike Woodson's team it seems.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Atlantaholic

[spotatl]

I'll take Woodson over John Kuester, Tom Barisse, Eddie Jordan, jay Triano, Don Nelson, Vinny Del Negro, Erik Spoelestra, Jim O'brien, Flip Saudners, Kurt Rambis, Scott Brooks, Mike Dunleavy, Lionel Hollins, jeff Bower, and Scott Skiles. Go look at every team's message board and how much they complain about their coach. Go look at a Denver messageboard and see how much they complain about George Karl.

If the Hawks could get Adelman or someone like that in here I'll pack Woodson's bags myself. But I just don't think the Hawks are going to get an upgrade if they do make a move.

Edited November 30, 2009 by spotatl

[capstone21]

The Hawks lost because the pistons had more offensive rebounds than the Hawks had defensive rebounds.

Excatly, Josh and Al are just as much to blame as JJ. They let the Pistons get inside and grab everything. They got away from what has been making the team successful up to this point. Boxing out. There was none of that and as a result the Pistons were able to get put backs. If we had stopped them from getting so many rebounds it would have been a blow out because they were shooting terrible for most of the game.

Edited November 30, 2009 by capstone21

[HAWKSFAN89]

Well, i'll say it again... Joe is pissing me off. Every time he touches the ball it's ISO Joe and that's not how we are efficient. Ball movement is the key..... The Pistons came out and banged with us and we weren't expecting it.

[HawksFan87]

Excatly, Josh and Al are just as much to blame as JJ. They let the Pistons get inside and grab everything. They got away from what has been making the team successful up to this point. Boxing out. There was none of that and as a result the Pistons were able to get put backs. If we had stopped them from getting so many rebounds it would have been a blow out because they were shooting terrible for most of the game.

how about they are not, They played harder than everyone else yesterday.. You guys will not blame this lost on them.. Ya know it would be nice if Joe and Bibby could actually guard somebody.. They did not box out either. Joe lost us this game, period..

[Diesel]

Wouldn't have mattered if Joe didn't play like an *ss. Everyone has off nights, but Joe turns all of his off nights into horrendous nights. It doesn't help that our coach is also an *ss.

I disagree. It's a fact that we win when we control the rebounds. That's regardless of How Joe is playing. So, us giving them so many second and third chances resulted in us losing. The main problem is that we don't have consistent rebounders. They put Wallace out there and he looked like Wallace of old. We put Josh out there and he floated to the perimeter.

[spotatl]

I think that you would have a MUCH easier time finding games where the star player had an off shooting night and the team still won compared to games where the team gave up more offensive rebounds than they had defensive rebounds and still won.

[AUhawksfan]

I disagree. It's a fact that we win when we control the rebounds. That's regardless of How Joe is playing. So, us giving them so many second and third chances resulted in us losing. The main problem is that we don't have consistent rebounders. They put Wallace out there and he looked like Wallace of old. We put Josh out there and he floated to the perimeter.

Exactly, its all been coming down to rebounding for us. Of course Joe didn't help, but if we had prevented just a few more chance for them and given ourselves a few more we could have had this game won.