You'll never see Joe do this...

[uga2006]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=165

Look at last nights stat line. It's so funny because many here actually think Jamal is better than Joe hahahaha.

I like Jamal and he's done alot for the team this year but don't get confused. He is what he is and thats a 6th man on a good team.

[Swatguy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=165

Look at last nights stat line. It's so funny because many here actually think Jamal is better than Joe hahahaha.

I like Jamal and he's done alot for the team this year but don't get confused. He is what he is and thats a 6th man on a good team.

Confussed?

We eecked by Minny. Jamal has been the difference for much of the season. As or more so than any other player.

He is the 6th man that is worth 6-8 games this season.

You seem confussed twisting in the wind.

[AUhawksfan]

Confussed?

We eecked by Minny. Jamal has been the difference for much of the season. As or more so than any other player.

He is the 6th man that is worth 6-8 games this season.

You seem confussed twisting in the wind.

I think you're not getting what UGA is saying. I think we all know how valuable Jamal has been this season and how much he has helped us win games. At the same time he is no Joe. Jamal can't distribute the as well nor play defense the way Joe does.

Also, I think the main difference is offensive consistency. Jamal can be on fire some games but for others, he can be downright awful. Joe is much more consistent overall. If Joe is playing bad, he can still rely on his distribution of the ball to help the offense. If Jamal isn't shooting well, he is pretty useless on offense unless he can draw fouls.

While I love having Crawford in his current role and am so glad we got him, I've also realized how much more of a complete player Joe is.

[exodus]

Confussed?

We eecked by Minny. Jamal has been the difference for much of the season. As or more so than any other player.

He is the 6th man that is worth 6-8 games this season.

You seem confussed twisting in the wind.

JJ is easily better than Crawford. Without JJ this team is far below .500.

Last year the Hawks had far more injuries and had Flip Murray as the 6th man yet still won 47 games. It is no coincidence that both Flip and Crawford had big years playing with JJ.

[uga2006]

I think you're not getting what UGA is saying. I think we all know how valuable Jamal has been this season and how much he has helped us win games. At the same time he is no Joe. Jamal can't distribute the as well nor play defense the way Joe does.

Also, I think the main difference is offensive consistency. Jamal can be on fire some games but for others, he can be downright awful. Joe is much more consistent overall. If Joe is playing bad, he can still rely on his distribution of the ball to help the offense. If Jamal isn't shooting well, he is pretty useless on offense unless he can draw fouls.

While I love having Crawford in his current role and am so glad we got him, I've also realized how much more of a complete player Joe is.

That sums it up pretty well. Posters on this board really undervalue Joe and actually believe Jamal could fill his role and produce the same way Joe does. It's quite funny.

[HawkWeisErrr]

JJ is easily better than Crawford. Without JJ this team is far below .500.

Last year the Hawks had far more injuries and had Flip Murray as the 6th man yet still won 47 games. It is no coincidence that both Flip and Crawford had big years playing with JJ.

Crawford has never scored 50 playing with JJ. He has done it several times without JJ.

[exodus]

Crawford has never scored 50 playing with JJ. He has done it several times without JJ.

You want to use three games as a barometer? Very smart....not.

Crawford is shooting better from the field this year because he is playing next to JJ, just like Flip did last year. For his career Crawford is a 40.8% shooter which is self explanatory.

Edited February 25, 2010 by exodus

[HawkWeisErrr]

You want to use three games as a barometer? Very smart....not.

Crawford is shooting better from the field this year because he is playing next to JJ, just like Flip did last year. For his career Crawford is a 40.8% shooter which is self explanatory.

Crawford has actually played in 55 games with the Hawks.

[exodus]

Crawford has actually played in 55 games with the Hawks.

And he has scored 50 3 times in 10 seasons.

[HawkWeisErrr]

And he has scored 50 3 times in 10 seasons.

But ZERO playing with Joe Johnson.

[exodus]

But ZERO playing with Joe Johnson.

Like i said using 3 games as a barometer is dumb. Crawford has scored 50 ZERO times in the majority of his seasons in the NBA. He also has ZERO seasons in the league when he shot better from the field than he is doing right now.

[Plainview1981]

I've been mostly satisfied with Joe's play this year so I've backed off him considerably. He has had bad spells of selfish play, but overall I think he has played better last season even if the numbers don't overwhelmingly reflect that. This year it has been Bibby and Marvin's really poor seasons.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[AHF]

But ZERO playing with Joe Johnson.

That is not an argument I would hang my hat on. Both for the reasons that exodus mentioned and because it is the expected result.

Crawford has played in 652 games in his career and scored more than 50 points in 3 of them. That leave 649 in which he hasn't scored 50 points.

All things being equal, that would put his odds of scoring 50 points in a game at roughly 0.4%. In a single 82 game season, let alone a 50 game stretch, you would expect that Crawford would not score 50 points in a game based on his career numbers. Since it is the expected results with all things being equal, I don't know how it is evidence that all things are not equal (i.e., that JJ has impaired Crawford's ability to score 50 points).

Crawford is posting a career high TS% (5.3% over his career average), a career high PER (2.8 over his career average and 2.0 over his previous career high), is scoring more points per minute than anytime in his career (3.1 pp36 more than his career average), and we are supposed to reach the conclusion that JJ is hurting his offensive game?

[niremetal]

That is not an argument I would hang my hat on. Both for the reasons that exodus mentioned and because it is the expected result.

Crawford has played in 652 games in his career and scored more than 50 points in 3 of them. That leave 649 in which he hasn't scored 50 points.

All things being equal, that would put his odds of scoring 50 points in a game at roughly 0.4%. In a single 82 game season, let alone a 50 game stretch, you would expect that Crawford would not score 50 points in a game based on his career numbers. Since it is the expected results with all things being equal, I don't know how it is evidence that all things are not equal (i.e., that JJ has impaired Crawford's ability to score 50 points).

Crawford is posting a career high TS% (5.3% over his career average), a career high PER (2.8 over his career average and 2.0 over his previous career high), is scoring more points per minute than anytime in his career (3.1 pp36 more than his career average), and we are supposed to reach the conclusion that JJ is hurting his offensive game?

Trying to argue with HawkWeisErr about the merits of Joe Johnson is like trying to argue with Diesel about the benefits of Marvin. Which is like trying to argue with Jason Collins about the benefits of a low fat diet.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Somebody might want to tell Mr. Err, that the last time Crawford scored 50 points . . he scored SIX POINTS in ATLANTA the previous night on 3 - 15 FG.

Both games were out of the ordinary. But it illustrates just how red hot and ice cold Crawford can be. In the Atlanta game, I believe he didn't shoot a single free throw. In the Charlotte game, I think he got to the line 18 times, making 17 free throws.

[pimp]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=165

Look at last nights stat line. It's so funny because many here actually think Jamal is better than Joe hahahaha.

I like Jamal and he's done alot for the team this year but don't get confused. He is what he is and thats a 6th man on a good team.

I remember Detrot held Joe to just 3 points a few years ago.

[niremetal]

I remember Detrot held Joe to just 3 points a few years ago.

Yes, but that game was a blow-out and JJ didn't play past the midway point in the 3rd. And it was one of only 2 such appallingly bad scoring games JJ has had in the past 4 seasons (the other was last year against Cleveland, when he went 1-8 for 4 points, also in a blowout). Jamal has 1-2 per month on average during that same time span (ie where he scores a negligble number of points on ~20% or less shooting).

The flip side of Jamal's occasional 50-point outbursts is that with even greater frequency, he has games that are mind-bogglingly atrocious.

Edited February 26, 2010 by niremetal

[TruJerz]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=165

Look at last nights stat line. It's so funny because many here actually think Jamal is better than Joe hahahaha.

I like Jamal and he's done alot for the team this year but don't get confused. He is what he is and thats a 6th man on a good team.

yes Joe Johnson is a better overall player than Jamal Crawford but image if he played as aggressive and with the same killer instinct as Crawford on the offensive end like he did in the playoffs against the Celtics..that would put him in the same class of the 2 SGs ahead of him in Wade and Kobe if he appraoched every game like that IMO but JJ is what he is a good overall SG who's laid back and calm, he aint gon change

Edited February 26, 2010 by TruJerz

[NineOhTheRino]

Jamal reminds me of Hot Sauce from the AND-1 mix tape tour.

[MaceCase]

yes Joe Johnson is a better overall player than Jamal Crawford but image if he played as aggressive and with the same killer instinct as Crawford on the offensive end like he did in the playoffs against the Celtics..that would put him in the same class of the 2 SGs ahead of him in Wade and Kobe if he appraoched every game like that IMO but JJ is what he is a good overall SG who's laid back and calm, he aint gon change

That "killer instinct" sure didn't help Jamal until he got here (career 40% shooter). Sometimes a player is better off knowing his limitations rather than approaching each shot as if it's as sure as the sun will rise. What puts those other SGs ahead of Joe is not just their mentality but their overwhelming physical ability which can't be discounted in this league. It's easy for Wade to attack the rim because he knows he can sky and finish above most stiffs in the league, Joe can't. He has to rely on craftiness and positioning to even get the ball on the rim. Jamal is not some rah rah guy himself, he's quiet and contemplative which is what made that technical on Sunday so out of the ordinary for him.