Time to unleash the white elephant.

[Diesel]

There's a white elephant in our room. So I will point it out and talk about it.

Smoove vs. Horford.

I get the feeling that after the allstar game, Smoove had hurt feelings. I think Smoove felt he deserved to be the allstar more than Horf.

I think that some of this carried over into the playoffs and is what Horf may have alluded to when talking about everybody not being on the same page. Actually, Horf used strong words. Horf hasn't signed an extension yet. I'm wondering if his extension is going to be a matter of him getting what he wants this year.

Financially, Keeping Smoove is easier because when he resigns, Horf will make more.

Logically, Keeping Horf is better because he can play PF/C.

Keeping Smoove makes some sense because he's from Atlanta, he's dynamic and can change a game with his ability.

BUT... Smoove's athleticism will soon start to disappear. He already doesn't block shots like he used to. He is becoming Ben Wallace.

Neither has a post offense.

Neither is a strong post defender.

What do we do now?

[Joker]

Horford, better Basketball IQ, better player, better attitude, better teammate, better leader, likely better with a contender.

[Diesel]

Horford, better Basketball IQ, better player, better attitude, better teammate, better leader, likely better with a contender.

Horf:

More expensive.

Less defensive.

Less offensive.

Not as easily replaceable though.

Not as much as a tweener either.

[mrhonline]

Maybe the team will be sold to a rich Asian investor by then?/??

[CongoP]

I'll take Horf you can just tell he's a smarter better person than Josh that is committed to winning, Josh jus has some big dreams that he can make super human plays everytime down the court and wants to be known as the savior of Atlanta which he'll never be

Salim Was Still Good

[GameTime]

Horf:

Less defensive.

:lol6:

Barring the blocked shots and steals, Horf is a much better man-to-man post defender than Josh.

[Diesel]

:lol6:

Barring the blocked shots and steals, Horf is a much better man-to-man post defender than Josh.

OK, you want to talk about defense without steals or blocked shots?? Good one GT!

:help wanted:

[capstone21]

OK, you want to talk about defense without steals or blocked shots?? Good one GT!

Blocking shots and getting steals does not make you a good defensive player.

Blocking shots means you have good timing and steals mean you take a lot of chances....

A good defensive player stays with his man...more importantly stays in front of his man. Smith is an excellent weakside defender but is just average everywhere else (below average on the perimeter).

Al does a better job of defending the post then Smith.

As far as offensive game, I think Al is the better offensive player. He just does not have the ball as much as Smith. He has a really good mid-range jump shot...his post moves are better and he has a nice hook shot. He also does not try to do too much which Smith is very guilty of. Smith has one of the worst jump shots in the league (yet he still keeps taking them), he can't dribble and still try's to penetrate (and often loses the ball). He needs to understand his game better and stay close to the basket...

Both are willing passers (Smith is probably better but then again Smith makes a lot of terrible passes).

Al is more versatile and as he can play multiple positions.

He is so much better ball handler and he plays a much smarter game.

He is a leader who keeps his head in the game and plays with a great attitude.

Attitude has always been a question with Smith....

Smith is more exciting and that helps sell tickets. However, with the game on the line I would rather Al had the ball then Smith. The player to keep is Al if it came down to it. It would be interesting to see what he would do if he was playing PF instead of Center.

[Diesel]

Blocking shots and getting steals does not make you a good defensive player.

Blocking shots means you have good timing and steals mean you take a lot of chances....

A good defensive player stays with his man...more importantly stays in front of his man. Smith is an excellent weakside defender but is just average everywhere else (below average on the perimeter).

Al does a better job of defending the post then Smith.

As far as offensive game, I think Al is the better offensive player. He just does not have the ball as much as Smith. He has a really good mid-range jump shot...his post moves are better and he has a nice hook shot. He also does not try to do too much which Smith is very guilty of. Smith has one of the worst jump shots in the league (yet he still keeps taking them), he can't dribble and still try's to penetrate (and often loses the ball). He needs to understand his game better and stay close to the basket...

Both are willing passers (Smith is probably better but then again Smith makes a lot of terrible passes).

Al is more versatile and as he can play multiple positions.

He is so much better ball handler and he plays a much smarter game.

He is a leader who keeps his head in the game and plays with a great attitude.

Attitude has always been a question with Smith....

Smith is more exciting and that helps sell tickets. However, with the game on the line I would rather Al had the ball then Smith. The player to keep is Al if it came down to it. It would be interesting to see what he would do if he was playing PF instead of Center.

I am a fan of positional defense. BUT... I have seen Josh Smith change a game from the defensive side of the ball many times. I have seen our team with horf out there not be able to stop Middle schoolers when Josh goes to the bench.

I think we overstate Horf's defense. I don't think he's the great positional player that he has been made out to be on this board. In actuallity, when watching the playoffs, I was hoping that Kurt Thomas could come here and teach Horf had to play better positional defense. Smoove too. Also, did Dwight Howard score like 19 straight on our defense in the playoffs. Didn't he shoot like 80+ percent on us?? You know that means that just about everytime he touched the ball, he scored?

Just because Smoove is not a great positional defender doesn't mean that Horf is one. Horf is good and he gets some blocks too and Smoove's blocks are down, but all and all, I think that Smoove makes a bigger defensive contribution than Horf right now.

[sturt]

Can't really say without knowing the whole of the low-post picture. Just can't.

For instance, if as a result, Smoove gets to play beside Al Jefferson, I'm good with that... but I don't see Horf with Al Jefferson being as effective a combination.

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

I will gladly have my cake and eat it too. They are two very different players that bring a solid set of skillz to the table. Why cant we just all get along. Why must it be a vs situation. This is like telling Kobe a couple of years ago to resign with the lakers, but debating on if Bynum is better in the post than Gasol. They each bring something different to the table. Smooth is a more dynamic player and horford is a more mature one. I say those two +jj = a solid foundation and I dont care who else you plug in the holes. If you add a solid pg to the mix it takes the pressure of creating offensively from all 3. Add a big in the post and each of those three can play a better game suited for their individual games. I know SSDPostseason

[AHF]

In 2009-10, Horford had the better +/- defensively (i.e., the difference between the points we gave up when Horford was on the floor versus off the floor) per 82 games. In 2008-09 and 2007-08, Smith was better by a wide margin for that stat.

Take that for what it is worth. I view Smith as an impact defender at the PF position while Horford had impressive numbers at the C spot last season. If we didn't have to cover for Bibby all the time, it would have been interesting to see how good this team could have been defensively last year.

[coachx]

Horf:

Less defensive.

Less offensive.

Disagree on both less defensive and less offensive.

Horford averaged 1 ppg less then Smoove but shot 5% better FG%. Give Horford the same shot oppurtunites as Smoove and he would average more shots while also shooting a better %.

Then there are the mental midgit problems that may never go away with Smoove.

Horford's ability to guard both the C & PF position, while also being a better man post defender makes him more valuable on defense in my eyes. Plus he is the better rebounder.

Again we all have opinions and that is mine

Edited July 1, 2010 by coachx

[tomac]

Keep them both. I guarantee you that chemistry issues with Josh Smith aren't what Horford was talking about. You guys seem to forget that Joe was pressing during the playoffs. He didn't share the ball, and he took a lot of bad shots. He single-handedly stopped the ball from moving. That's what caused problems. Joe was playing for a contract.

BTW, once he gets his money, he'll be more of a team player.

[DJlaysitup]

Very close - but I'd go with Horford....he's not as good but safer longterm.

[Sothron]

Maybe the team will be sold to a rich Asian investor by then?/??

[AHF]

Fantastic!