No Shaq in ATL = SAD, FAIL!

[Mdizzle5]

So let me get this straight... some of us are in panic mode because we didn't get Shaq? someone remind me what shaq did in Cleveland that was worth his contract? where the Cavs better with him on the roster? Was Phoenix? :/

[Sothron]

So let me get this straight... some of us are in panic mode because we didn't get Shaq? someone remind me what shaq did in Cleveland that was worth his contract? where the Cavs better with him on the roster? Was Phoenix? :/

Shaq hasn't been worth the price of his own locker room cancer since his Miami days.

[thescout5]

Let's not forget in the playoffs it comes down to a half court game.We have the same front line as we have had in the past and I suppose Drew's new offensive philosphy will fix the problem. Sorry I don't buy it at all. Some point to Shaq not doing anything with Phoenix and Cleveland.Phoenix is mainly a running team and doesn't know how to play half court thus Shaq was a bad fit. Cleveland didn't get the ball to Shaq enough still relying on Lebron to much. If Shaq doesn't get the ball enough of course he might complain that is a coaches fault.

If we make it to the later rounds chances are we are going to face Boston and or Orlando again. Do you want to go to war with Jason Collins and Powell once we realize out interior offense still sucks or do you go with the biggest player in the game who won't be pushed around and can still more than most centers and be somewhat of a force.Also consider maybe Shaq comes in motivated trying to prove doubters wrong. I'd still take a chance on him whats the alternative Jason Collins and Josh Powell? :shake_puter:

[MaceCase]

What offensive center was Shaq checking against Boston? Oh that's right, no one. They just pick and rolled him to death. People forget that defending in the halfcourt is just as important as offense in the halfcourt. Phoenix were almost in the Finals this year because they finally figured out how to do the former.

[Mdizzle5]

I realize dwight is a beast at the center position... but it wasnt just dwight that beat us. IMO Everyone else on that team hurt us more than Dwight did. I mean...JJ Redick was looking like Ray Allen against us....

[lunar]

at this point i would take zaza over shaq anyway. at least he's likable.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

But Boston pick and rolls everybody to death. The only reason they didn't do it to us, because we switch out of everything.

Oh my bad . . . people hate the switch defense, and want it abolished. So now it's going to be up to Teague, Bibby, and Jamal to fight through that screen. You think they can do it?

Citing that Shaq has trouble with the pick and roll is NOT a reason to not have seriously gone after that dude. He does so many other things that help a ballclub that makes up for his slow-footedness in defending the P & R.

The ASG never went after that dude aggressively, because they were flat out unwilling to pay some luxury tax. They probably thought they had leverage, just because other teams were offering the minimum, and the Hawks were willing to dish out 2 million.

It's funny though. How can some of the same people who couldn't wait to run Woody out of town, turn around and be cool with the ASG not doing anything in free agency to upgrade the team?

Somebody answer that for me please?

[Guest]

Shaq was not coming Hawks for the minimum, he would only be here if he was offered more money (and he isn't worth what he was or is still asking for)....that's the simple truth.

When Phoenix traded for Shaq, how'd that work for them, they got further in the playoffs the year after he left....When Cleveland traded for Shaq, he was supposed to "win a ring for the KING"...how'd that work out for them. .Shaq does not make us a championship contender.

Shaq is going to kill Boston's defense, here is an excerpt from David Thorpe ESPN....

The Celtics have succeeded on the basis of team defense:

It's five guys on a string. O'Neal does not move on a string. He doesn't even follow team instructions on defense. "Shaq is famous," says Scouts Inc.'s David Thorpe, "for doing his own thing on defense. When he's supposed to show on the pick-and-roll he does not show. That doesn't mean he isn't going to change. But I think that's going to be a problem. Even if the Celtics just want him to score a few buckets, doesn't that take away from what the team's identity is?"

Thorpe relays a line from his assistant, Anthony Macri: "What's going to hurt the Boston defense more -- the departure of Tom Thibodeau, or the arrival of Shaquille O'Neal?" .......Now that last line is hilarious.

[lunar]

But Boston pick and rolls everybody to death. The only reason they didn't do it to us, because we switch out of everything.

Oh my bad . . . people hate the switch defense, and want it abolished. So now it's going to be up to Teague, Bibby, and Jamal to fight through that screen. You think they can do it?

Citing that Shaq has trouble with the pick and roll is NOT a reason to not have seriously gone after that dude. He does so many other things that help a ballclub that makes up for his slow-footedness in defending the P & R.

The ASG never went after that dude aggressively, because they were flat out unwilling to pay some luxury tax. They probably thought they had leverage, just because other teams were offering the minimum, and the Hawks were willing to dish out 2 million.

It's funny though. How can some of the same people who couldn't wait to run Woody out of town, turn around and be cool with the ASG not doing anything in free agency to upgrade the team?

Somebody answer that for me please?

running woody out of town was in upgrade.

personally i didn't see anybody out there that would have been seen as an upgrade for our team, at least not in terms of an outright signing. especially seeing as though no one was looking to sign for the mid-level and that those that were would not be worthy addition to the team. who could we have gotten that was a clear upgrade over joe, josh, or al? this was a thin crop of FA pg's and besides, we pretty much have one in jeff teague coming into his second year of the league (hopefully drew will play him). we could use an upgrade at SF, but for everyone saying that getting joe at 120 was bad getting rudy (who plays even less defense than joe would at SF) would have been worse and we all know that we weren't getting LBJ. when it comes down too it, this was a bad year for FAs in the hawks point of view, we're strong at power forward, and got unarguably the second best SG on the market. now maybe if we can get a trade brewing during the season to upgrade the PG or SF position that would be gravy, but as for the offseason, we really didn't have much to do.

[dlpin]

I understand people not wanting or liking Shaq. But as I said in the other thread, how can anyone think that this signing will be bad for the celtics?

He hurts the defense? He is bad for chemistry? Whatever. As a vet. min signing they can dump him and resign any other min player at will

[MaceCase]

But Boston pick and rolls everybody to death. The only reason they didn't do it to us, because we switch out of everything.

Oh my bad . . . people hate the switch defense, and want it abolished. So now it's going to be up to Teague, Bibby, and Jamal to fight through that screen. You think they can do it?

Citing that Shaq has trouble with the pick and roll is NOT a reason to not have seriously gone after that dude. He does so many other things that help a ballclub that makes up for his slow-footedness in defending the P & R.

The ASG never went after that dude aggressively, because they were flat out unwilling to pay some luxury tax. They probably thought they had leverage, just because other teams were offering the minimum, and the Hawks were willing to dish out 2 million.

It's funny though. How can some of the same people who couldn't wait to run Woody out of town, turn around and be cool with the ASG not doing anything in free agency to upgrade the team?

Somebody answer that for me please?

So are you saying that a team was capable of beating not one but two dominant centers through the use of coaching rather than combating with their own dominant center? Surely you jest.

Now its back to the Woody strawman, how bout this, the switch works situationally just not as your base defense. The same way the ISO works situationally just not as your base offense. Boston runs the exact same system yet they seemed to of found a much better mix than Woody could even fathom.

So the ASG didn't actively pursue Shaq even though they offered him money above his market value?

And Shaq does things that make up for his slow footedness? What's your basis for this? That he can get you 18 points on only a quarter of your teams offensive possessions or the fact that his last few teams didn't improve with him to the point he is a minimum deal bench player now?

[Sothron]

I understand people not wanting or liking Shaq. But as I said in the other thread, how can anyone think that this signing will be bad for the celtics?

He hurts the defense? He is bad for chemistry? Whatever. As a vet. min signing they can dump him and resign any other min player at will

I never said it was bad for the Celtics. They won a title recently and IMO would have won a second if Perkins had played in game seven. They have four alpha dogs on that team plus a strong head coach and a strong GM. If Shaq plays his Shaq games there then they cut his *ss and don't blink twice about it.

He pulls that here in Atlanta and frankly? our owners wouldn't cut him because of guaranteed contracts. Plus he'd probably have a second guaranteed year on his deal instead of a one year deal in Boston. Our guys aren't mentally strong enough or media savvy enough to play Shaq fu games with him because I know and I mean I KNOW he'd start pulling them when he didn't like his minutes or lack of touches.

I don't see how anyone can think Shaq is worth the trouble at this point FOR US. For a team like Boston on a one year vet min deal that is COMPLETELY different.

[Plainview1981]

Take a look at the MLE and see when the last time a player was signed to the MLE and actually helped the team that signed him. I can't think of a good MLE signing since Detroit signed Chauncey Billups back in 2001 or 2002. There is a good article on the pitfalls of the MLE and how it is basically wasted money at basketball prospectus. I'll see if I can find the link.

Your right... They did a great job bringing in a talentess laker scrub and bringing back the fat guy that can't even get up and down the court at a reasonable pace.

Yeah, that's the perfect solution for a team that suffered the worst playoff loss in NBA history.

[Yeti]

That's an interesting take. So first step is become a championship contender, presumably with bad chemistry and then fix the chemistry thing to win a championship?

Great. Because we sure have great chemistry now. And WHAT championship contender? Neither the owners or the players believe in that. Maybe a dominating presence who actually has won championships would be a good thing in our locker room, how could it be worse? You know, someone who actually wants to win. Do you really think we are getting the maximum out of the players we have? It's going to take a slap upside their heads to get them to change - not a pep talk.

But it is all mute. We are standing pat. Everythings riding on Drew now - can he develop rookies (unlike HWSNBN), can he get Teague to be an effective PG, will the players buy into his motion offense? And if it doesn't work it is HIS fault, not the owners or Sund.

[KB21]

Kelly Dwyer has a great blog entry on Shaq.

Looks like I'm not alone in my view of the declining Shaq.

It's just that all these raw stats tell you that the Cavs were so, so much better with O'Neal on the pine. That when things weren't Shaq-centric, Cleveland tended to dominate. The easy answer to that? Don't pass Shaq the ball. Don't make him Shaq-centric. To these eyes, Cleveland didn't. And yet, the team's offense stunk with him out there. Tom Haberstroh nailed the best part of it last week:

LeBron with Shaq last year: Cavs +3.4 pts per possession. LeBron without Shaq? +15.7. That experiment was fun wasn't it?

That's per 100 possessions, and with the average game working around 93 or 94 possessions, nearly 16 points is a pretty big deal. That's not an insignificant number. I watched the games, same as you did. I'm not going to pretend to know something, some significant reason, as to why it didn't flow. Kobe Bryant(notes) seemed perfectly adept at driving the lane with Shaq around, same with Dwyane Wade(notes). Why couldn't LeBron James(notes)?

But, outside of interest in seeing this legend wearing those legendary colors, it's nothing to get too excited about. Those days are over, and Johan Petro(notes) may have been the better hire. Good thing Shaq lowered his price.

[KB21]

Your right... They did a great job bringing in a talentess laker scrub and bringing back the fat guy that can't even get up and down the court at a reasonable pace.

Yeah, that's the perfect solution for a team that suffered the worst playoff loss in NBA history.

And you think they should have signed Shaq?

[DrReality]

Don't think Larry Drew could have managed Shaq and that would undermine his relationships with the other guys. He doesn't need that.

[Plainview1981]

And you think they should have signed Shaq?

Do you think it's better that they signed a fat unskilled guy compared to a fat skilled one?

Because make no mistake, Jason Collins has no NBA skils at all. If he wasn't tall and fat he wouldn't be in the NBA. If the Hawks didn't sign him he wouldn't be in the NBA either. You could find high school players that could contribute to this team more than Jason Collins can. he is 300 pounds of nothing but chewed bubble gum. He is a scum of a player. A freeloader and a bum. The towel boy has more reason to step on an NBA court than he does. Collins is one of the wost players to ever play in the NBA. He couldn't even get any run on Minny's terrible team. He can't get any time anywhere. He simply takes up roster spots because he is tall and fat.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

Kelly Dwyer has a great blog entry on Shaq.

Looks like I'm not alone in my view of the declining Shaq.

This team did nothing this off season. They had the worst playoff series loss in NBA history and they've done NOTHING to correct that problem. Most likely they only decided to not bring Woodson back because it would have cost more money. And keeping Joe doesn't go against that. Their lack of ability to improve the team says their cheap.

You can shout to the heavens all day long that Shaq is on the decline. But he is still way better than Josh Powell and Jason Collins.

Don't think Larry Drew could have managed Shaq and that would undermine his relationships with the other guys. He doesn't need that.

I think the furstarttion mostly lies in that ownership didn't make any real moves. No, Shaq is not a perfect fit. I don't know if anyone actually believes that. But with the way the season ended you got to get on the ball to improve. Especially since everyone else in the east has made moves.

[Johnnybravo4]

For me it was never about the basketball part. I want my team to be relevant. I want us to have TNT games instead of NBA TV games. I want us to be the topic in barbershop conversations. I want the high heels to come to the game because we are playing, not because Kobe is. In this town you have to be Good AND Exciting. This team has NO buzz...whatsoever. For the ASG to be Atlanta guys, they have absolutely no idea how we think.