No Shaq in ATL = SAD, FAIL!

[y2kenta]

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ARGUMENTS OF US (HAWKS) NOT NEEDING SHAQ OR NOT WANTING TO PAY HIM MUCH. IT IS FLAT OUT PATHETIC THAT OUR OWNERS:

1. dump almost all of our cap on Joe when it more than likely wouldn't have took more than $90-100M (or less since Lebron was still undecided) to keep him from other teams,

2. basically half-azzed efforts to entertain signing Shaq when he first expressed interest in ATL,

3. have made it extremely tough to resign Horf now, yet along Horford and Crawford --- URGHH!!!!

4. turned down an offer to sign & trade for Shaq because involved Marvin, then stating they refuse to move any of their starters! WAKE UP! Marvin (who I like and support) has given us bench production for at least 4 of 5 years, with the only exception being his contract year (big surprise, huh?), we could have moved him, gained Shaq for 2 years to compete for a ring, and then Horford's new contract would start that following year with Marvin's $7-8M off the books!!!!

5. they also are not understanding the positive financial impact Shaq would have on the city, including the casual NBA fan that doesn't really care for Hawks but wants a to see Shaq, not to mention that Shaq is a HOF center instantly makes a team tough and also commands double teams on the offensive end. Imagine teams doubling Shaq while Horford awaits open mid-range jumpers at the elbows, Smoove slashing in for dunk and Joe, Bibby, and the Crawfords bomb away from outside --- URGHH!!!!

6. now we sit back watch another EAST contender (looks like BOS) better their squad and become a tougher team to beat, and THEY WILL MORE THAN LIKELY BE THERE COME ROUND 2, will WE???? ANd if it is BOS, my goodness! They've been in the finals 2 out of the last 3 season!!!

No matter how you look at it, this was a fail that may scar us for a long time. Not to get Shaq, a big name that was totally obtainable when he even has/had interest is not good for us now and in the future. This just further distinguishes our management as cheap, unfocused on winning, pleasing the fans and building their product, which in turn makes money. Future free agents WILL stray from signing here for a while and Joe's SUPER CONTRACT, Marvin drafting over elite PGs (and then the reluctance to trade him) will probably limit our team for the next decade. SAD and very disappointing!!!

Edited August 4, 2010 by y2kenta

[Dragitoff]

I wanted to see Shaq here in a limited role. I thought he could've helped us against bigger teams, but no use crying over spilt milk. I am more disappointed that we wasted the off-season not bringing in Shaq, Thomas, Miller, Ilgauskas, Gooden, or other valuable big man.

[Sothron]

I didn't want Shaq but I do blame the ASG for not spending the MLE to make our team better.

[WraithSentinel]

Not getting Shaq will prove to be a good thing. On a team with no Alpha Dawgs. Shaq could have caused a lot of trouble within the lockerroom. Could we have used him? Sure we could have. He is likely better than Powel and Collins combine. This might be one of those blessings in disguise here.

[KB21]

I didn't want Shaq but I do blame the ASG for not spending the MLE to make our team better.

Take a look at the MLE and see when the last time a player was signed to the MLE and actually helped the team that signed him. I can't think of a good MLE signing since Detroit signed Chauncey Billups back in 2001 or 2002. There is a good article on the pitfalls of the MLE and how it is basically wasted money at basketball prospectus. I'll see if I can find the link.

[KB21]

Here are two links.

First:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1187

Second:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=412

Through last summer, 49 mid-level-type deals had been signed (including three players--Jerome James, Nazr Mohammed and Joe Smith--who have twice been signed using the exception). As a whole, these players were predictably average the year before they hit free agency, with average ratings of a .505 winning percentage and 3.6 Wins Above Replacement Player.

Actually, because of their minutes played, the group was really more valuable than average before becoming free agents. If salaries and performance were perfectly distributed, a player making the mid-level salary could be expected to add about 2.5 WARP per season. How has the mid-level group done compared to that standard? Not well at all.

Combined, the mid-level free agents have played 160 seasons on their contracts. Of those, 52--less than a third--have been rated as worth at least 2.5 WARP. Performance over the life of the deal is even more striking. Of the 49 players signed using the mid-level exception, just 13 have averaged more than 2.5 WARP per season during the contract. Nearly as many (10) have rated as below replacement level over the course of the deal.

[lethalweapon3]

Looks to be official for the Big Chowder (2 yrs, $1.4 mil/yr reported). Alrighty then, what's next on the agenda?

~lw3

[Sothron]

KB21, no offense intended, but I don't believe in Sabrematrics in the slightest. All of those "advance" numbers mean nothing to me and have no weight in a debate. I go by what I see. You have to spend money to win in this league esp. in the playoffs.

[NineOhTheRino]

I didn't want Shaq but I do blame the ASG for not spending the MLE to make our team better.

agree. they dropped the ball again. Had I known they'd turn #31 into Powell and Collins I would have rip them big time.

Edited August 4, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[KB21]

KB21, no offense intended, but I don't believe in Sabrematrics in the slightest. All of those "advance" numbers mean nothing to me and have no weight in a debate. I go by what I see. You have to spend money to win in this league esp. in the playoffs.

Fair enough. I feel these stats tell us a lot more about the player, particularly win shares and WARP. Those stats are directly tied to winning and are much better tools to evaluate players with than your daily box score numbers.

[HawkItus]

He signed for that minimum. We offered him pretty much the same. People complained cause we over paid for Joe. But, they don't mind us over paying for Shaq?

[Johnnybravo4]

Not getting Shaq will prove to be a good thing. On a team with no Alpha Dawgs. Shaq could have caused a lot of trouble within the lockerroom. Could we have used him? Sure we could have. He is likely better than Powel and Collins combine. This might be one of those blessings in disguise here.

Honestly why do we care about the chemistry of a non championship contender?

[PlayaPat420]

Honestly why do we care about the chemistry of a non championship contender?

Because lack thereof could tear up what is a quality team as of now

[Swatguy]

Not getting Shaq will prove to be a good thing. On a team with no Alpha Dawgs. Shaq could have caused a lot of trouble within the lockerroom. Could we have used him? Sure we could have. He is likely better than Powel and Collins combine. This might be one of those blessings in disguise here.

This is either sarcasm or the most over-thought unthought thought ever thought.

[macdaddy]

Honestly why do we care about the chemistry of a non championship contender?

That's an interesting take. So first step is become a championship contender, presumably with bad chemistry and then fix the chemistry thing to win a championship?

[Vol4ever]

He signed for that minimum. We offered him pretty much the same. People complained cause we over paid for Joe. But, they don't mind us over paying for Shaq?

Well think about it, Celtics or Hawks? Celtics have a rich tradition of championships, the Hawks..........................well they have nothing!

[Diesel]

Well think about it, Celtics or Hawks? Celtics have a rich tradition of championships, the Hawks..........................well they have nothing!

We have not because we seek not.

We can easily be a contender but along the way, our franchise have just missed the ball, made bad decisions, and stood pat when it was time to move too many times. We keep doing the same thing and hoping that another year older means that we're going to get it right.

Tell me, does that work anywhere?

We're not quite the Cleveland Browns of Basketball, but we're like the San Diego Chargers of basketball. We have potential, but we do dumb stuff.

[KB21]

Well think about it, Celtics or Hawks? Celtics have a rich tradition of championships, the Hawks..........................well they have nothing!

Boston is a better fit for him. They are an older, plodding team that isn't interested in pushing the tempo. They also have strong veteran leaders in place. I still have little doubt that Shaq will eventually try to rock the boat with his ego, but he's less likely to slow that team down the way he would slow the Hawks down. He was a terrible fit for the Hawks. The Hawks are a young, athletic team that needs to run, and Shaq for 10-15 minutes a night would do nothing but slow the pace down to a plodding style.

[buckeye242424]

That's an interesting take. So first step is become a championship contender, presumably with bad chemistry and then fix the chemistry thing to win a championship?

I think getting Shaq would have done more good than harm, past the locker room and court as well. But whaddya do?

This chemistry thing go me thinking...gotta start with Larry Drew. The way it sounded to me, a major part of Drew's role was to play "good cop" to Woody's "bad cop". LD, for six years, heard all the bitching and moaning from the players. He knows what their beefs are, both with our old head coach, and with each other. He's in the right position now to fix these issues. He knows where the chemistry issues are on this team. (I think the major one is getting the ball out of Joe's hands 99% of the time on offense).

[Vol4ever]

Boston is a better fit for him. They are an older, plodding team that isn't interested in pushing the tempo. They also have strong veteran leaders in place. I still have little doubt that Shaq will eventually try to rock the boat with his ego, but he's less likely to slow that team down the way he would slow the Hawks down. He was a terrible fit for the Hawks. The Hawks are a young, athletic team that needs to run, and Shaq for 10-15 minutes a night would do nothing but slow the pace down to a plodding style.

How about the slow down half court pace of the playoffs? Seems to me all of those running teams of Phoenix fared well in the regular seson and when the playoffs came around they were history.