Give Marvin the ball.

[Wretch]

Anyone else notice that when Marvin plays well, it's very quiet. Marvin sleepwalks to 15+ point games. You're just sitting there watching and you realize...wow, he's got around 10 points. Later on, you realize he's up around 15 with plenty of time left... And he gets those points completely within the flow of the game. Rarely does he post up, call for it, or put his head down. The problem that I've had with Marvin is aggressiveness. He's too big, too quick, too athletic, and has too good of a shot to simply stand around and wait for jumpers. His shot really is good. This being the year of opportunity, I'd like to see him taking more long range jumpers and putting his head down, taking it into the lane.

Can he maintain it? Is it just a matter of making him shoot it - making him be more aggressive? Or is he truly just a waste of space out there?

Regardless, while his confidence is high I think now is the time to ride his @ss and push him to score the ball.

[WakaFlocka]

This is just Marvin's "game". I said on here the other day that he's never really one to "wow" you like Josh or JJ. Just like you said, Marvin can end up with 15-20 points or whatever, but those points aren't going to come in a flashy manor. I don't think we need to specifically focus on giving him the ball, but stick with moving the ball and if he gets an opportunity/open shot, then he absolutely needs to capitalize on it. But to single him out and say "here's the ball, do your thing" (ISO Joe/Jamal style) is a bad idea and is getting away from what we need to do and what's been working nicely so far this season.

[JohnnyCASH]

YOU KNOW WHAT I FOUND FUNNY TODAY WAS THE FIRST TIME I SEEN MARVIN WEAR KOBES.(SHOES) JUST SAYING..ANY ONE ELSE NOTICE

[hawkman]

Marvin has always had the capability to play the way he did last night. That's why he was picked #2 in the draft. It's the consitency of effort that is the issue. In this offense, he will get the ball. It's just a matter of what he chooses to do with it on a given night. I'm glad he played the way he did last night because the Hawks needed every single one of those points after a slow start.

[DJlaysitup]

Marvin had a very nice game...bigtime Congrats to him! He also was involved in one of Bob Rathbun's announcing gems (anybody remember it?).

Marvin had already knocked down his early 10 points and was "feeling his oats" when he let one fly from a step beyond the top of the key. The ball missed everything wide left and Bob said (kinda deadpan)..."who moved the basket?"

Gotta love ole Bob!

[exodus]

The reality is that Marvin's jumper really isn't that good. Considering most of his shots are catch and shoot attempts his EFG% on jumpers is pretty weak and has been every year except the year when he shot a lot of 3s and made 35% of them. Since he can't create his own jumper off the dribble like Crawford and JJ it is important for him to consistently cash in on open looks. He has not done that so far in his career.

[coachx]

The motion offense fits Marvin's versitility perfect !

I'd love seeing both JJ and Marvin post up smaller players when they had they matchup. Good to see us play like a veteran team and recognize it.

[Wretch]

The reality is that Marvin's jumper really isn't that good. Considering most of his shots are catch and shoot attempts his EFG% on jumpers is pretty weak and has been every year except the year when he shot a lot of 3s and made 35% of them. Since he can't create his own jumper off the dribble like Crawford and JJ it is important for him to consistently cash in on open looks. He has not done that so far in his career.

I can agree with that. When he catches and shoots (and he pulls his legs up awkwardly like he does, lol), he's not knocking those down with consistency. However, while he does not have a JJ or Crawford-esque shot, he does have better than average aim. He needs a lot of work taking guys off the dribble, and he may need a little work on catching and shooting (I think it's his legs throwing that shot off...how he kind of throws them to the side)...but I think we need to put him in a position to score. Obviously this is JJ's team and when Crawford is on the floor, we want him taking shots. Other than those two though, Marvin might be the most consistent scoring option we have - IF he can be pushed to do it.

What really strikes me is the fact that he's playing like a guy who is growing right now. His game doesn't look any different, but he system doesn't allow him to hide out there and encourages him to shoot it. It may be a different story if and when teams realize they can't leave him...but if we push him right now, it may not even make a difference. Confidence is a big thing in the NBA - confidence and the will to score the ball.

I say do it. I'm not saying put the offense on Marvin's back - not by any stretch of the imagination. What I'm saying is that while it's early, and while he has shown the ability to score (and quite effortlessly), PUSH HIM. Run more plays for him and look for him as THE option when JJ/Craw's play breaks down.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Wretch

[AHF]

The reality is that Marvin's jumper really isn't that good. Considering most of his shots are catch and shoot attempts his EFG% on jumpers is pretty weak and has been every year except the year when he shot a lot of 3s and made 35% of them. Since he can't create his own jumper off the dribble like Crawford and JJ it is important for him to consistently cash in on open looks. He has not done that so far in his career.

This is true. Getting to the line consistently is critical for his TS%.

I have given up on Marvin ever adopting an aggressive attitude on offense at this point. I just don't think he has the fire in him for that.

[Wretch]

This is true. Getting to the line consistently is critical for his TS%.

I have given up on Marvin ever adopting an aggressive attitude on offense at this point. I just don't think he has the fire in him for that.

In the past, I have said the same thing. I'm going to backtrack a little on it though. Marvin is to blame for who Marvin is. No doubt. However, as much as I dislike his passive attitude on the court - I disliked Mike Woodson's lack of attention on offense even more. It --KILLED-- guys' ability to step up and encouraged them to stand around and watch. Of course a player like Marvin is going to disappear in that situation. I'm sure Woody told him to shoot and be more aggressive, but how much did he push that? Considering the fact that he was generally NOT concerned about the offense and the only guys he drew up plays for were JJ and Crawford.

It may sound like I'm making excuses for the guy, and maybe I am. But I think most people on this board will agree that Woodson's system was more likely to destroy a player's confidence if he wasn't a "me first" kind of shooter. You also have to agree that in this system, you will have a better chance to evaluate just how much a guy can contribute.

That being said...we should see marked improvement across the board. Is it coincidence that over the first few games, it seems like guys who have sucked (Mo, Bibby, ZaZa, Marvin) all of a sudden look 100% better and guys who forced a lot of shots (JJ, Crawford) seem to be getting more open looks?

I'm still waiting to see how we react to adversity, or how LD handles it, but ball movement was the remedy for this team (and everyone on it) AGES ago. We are going to be a better playoff team than we were last year and it's going to be because guys (like Marvin) have a true chance to contribute.

[AUhawksfan]

"Last game I wasn't aggressive at all, and it hurts my team when I'm not aggressive," Williams said. "I really wanted to come out and establish myself early."

While I like to hear that, I can just as easily see him using that as an excuse to slack off and defer to his teammates more the next game. If he consistently had this attitude every game then we wouldn't have as much an issue with his erratic performances.

This offense may help his game out slightly but honestly this all truly lies on Marvin and his approach to the game on a night in and night out basis. He has to have that fire and truly want to make an impact offensively every game.

[Diesel]

This is just Marvin's "game". I said on here the other day that he's never really one to "wow" you like Josh or JJ. Just like you said, Marvin can end up with 15-20 points or whatever, but those points aren't going to come in a flashy manor. I don't think we need to specifically focus on giving him the ball, but stick with moving the ball and if he gets an opportunity/open shot, then he absolutely needs to capitalize on it. But to single him out and say "here's the ball, do your thing" (ISO Joe/Jamal style) is a bad idea and is getting away from what we need to do and what's been working nicely so far this season.

Waka, I see it differently.

Marvin gets most of his points either assisted or by garbage. Previously, with Iso ball, we didn't assist Marvin. Thus, he became driftwood sitting on the court. I think he still has that potential because he doesn't call for the ball and he is quick to pass it. Marvin's drive is simply this... he puts his head down and rumbles toward the basket. Most of the time he runs somebody over and either get the foul or the charge. Last night, he got more fouls. Still, there are a lot of players who know how to play Marvin. They use his unagressiveness against him. For Marvin to be the man, he must develop the will to shoot and take over games. We all know he's not going to do that so Marvin goes with our PG.

[evilinkblot]

I think good things happen when Marvin pulls a Lebron and barrels into the paint. Getting to the free throw line is huge for his game........

[AHF]

Wretch - I agree and have said for years that an iso system is a terrible fit for Marvin's game but I fundamentally blame him for not being more assertive.