Who are your notable bottom 10 Hawks of all time.

[Diesel]

I say notable because there are a lot of sorry guys who have played like Matt Frieje but these kind of guys are not notable because they were never projected as starters or drafted High. Being that Babcock was here so long, we should have a pretty good list. Also, we'll give it of the Babcock era and up (Babcock, BK, Sund).

10. Rumeal Robinson? Some people say Rumeal Sucked. I say Rumeal was not what was promised. IF we had Rumeal now, we'd be pretty good. He was a big guard who could defend. His shooting was not that of guards before him.

9. Kenny Norman. Savior he was not. A lot of it was his injuries, but his contract was pretty bad too.

8. Blair Rasmussen. Can you say Over rated.

7. Kenny Anderson. I recall Anderson was going to be a mentor, etc... Anderson barely played well. After the anticipation, Anderson couldn't deliver.

6. Alan Henderson (resigned). Call it injury related if you like, Hendu supposedly beat out Laettner for the contract then he played like garbage. Went on to have more desire to start a record company than to play basketball.

5. Shelden " the Landlord" Williams. Anytime you get a nickname like "the Landlord" then you better be evicting people. The other day, I saw Shelden is playing good. However, he was not solid here.

4. Acie Law IV ( Law and Order). Another miss. Drafted 11th, Law could not get PT with Woodson.

3. Marvin Gaye Williams. #2 pick overall. Selected ahead of CP3. Got a second contract. Still doesn't produce.

2. Priest Lauterdale. 7 foot 4 inch, 1st round draft pick. Never materialized into a good player. Couldn't earn more than 3 minutes under Lenny. Maybe we didn't give him long enough.

1. Roy Marble. The Next MJ ended up with a career of 29 games total. He was not good.

HM: Big Dog. Easy Ed Gray. Cal Bowdler. Dion Glover. Chris Crawford. Jon Koncak's Contract.

[capstone21]

I say notable because there are a lot of sorry guys who have played like Matt Frieje but these kind of guys are not notable because they were never projected as starters or drafted High. Being that Babcock was here so long, we should have a pretty good list. Also, we'll give it of the Babcock era and up (Babcock, BK, Sund).

10. Rumeal Robinson? Some people say Rumeal Sucked. I say Rumeal was not what was promised. IF we had Rumeal now, we'd be pretty good. He was a big guard who could defend. His shooting was not that of guards before him.

9. Kenny Norman. Savior he was not. A lot of it was his injuries, but his contract was pretty bad too.

8. Blair Rasmussen. Can you say Over rated.

7. Kenny Anderson. I recall Anderson was going to be a mentor, etc... Anderson barely played well. After the anticipation, Anderson couldn't deliver.

6. Alan Henderson (resigned). Call it injury related if you like, Hendu supposedly beat out Laettner for the contract then he played like garbage. Went on to have more desire to start a record company than to play basketball.

5. Shelden " the Landlord" Williams. Anytime you get a nickname like "the Landlord" then you better be evicting people. The other day, I saw Shelden is playing good. However, he was not solid here.

4. Acie Law IV ( Law and Order). Another miss. Drafted 11th, Law could not get PT with Woodson.

3. Marvin Gaye Williams. #2 pick overall. Selected ahead of CP3. Got a second contract. Still doesn't produce.

2. Priest Lauterdale. 7 foot 4 inch, 1st round draft pick. Never materialized into a good player. Couldn't earn more than 3 minutes under Lenny. Maybe we didn't give him long enough.

1. Roy Marble. The Next MJ ended up with a career of 29 games total. He was not good.

HM: Big Dog. Easy Ed Gray. Cal Bowdler. Dion Glover. Chris Crawford. Jon Koncak's Contract.

I actually take this post to just get another knock at Marvin

[Joker]

Marvin not in the bottom ten even though I knew he was in yours. So many names. Jacques Vaughn. Craig Ehlo. Matt Maloney. Travis Hansen. Bimbo Coles. Acie Law.

Bottom ten to 25 guys are laughable, when you think of them, you just start laughing. None of guys on the current team come close to that. The guys on your list just didn't pan out or they didn't reach expectations that was placed on them. But they are not the bottom ten. That's Adam Morrison in LA, Slava M who also in our bottom 25, Dan Dickau, etc.

[macdaddy]

Shouldn't number one be Danny Manning? Sure he was a good player but he was supposed to be a return on an aging superstar and we got jack squat out of him.

I agree with Dickau, Speedy, Hendu, Crawford, Norman, Stacey Augman?

[Diesel]

Marvin not in the bottom ten even though I knew he was in yours. So many names. Jacques Vaughn. Craig Ehlo. Matt Maloney. Travis Hansen. Bimbo Coles. Acie Law.

Bottom ten to 25 guys are laughable, when you think of them, you just start laughing. None of guys on the current team come close to that. The guys on your list just didn't pan out or they didn't reach expectations that was placed on them. But they are not the bottom ten. That's Adam Morrison in LA, Slava M who also in our bottom 25, Dan Dickau, etc.

Craig Ehlo? Jacque Vaughn? Are you serious? You have to be joking. Please tell me you're joking!!!

Shouldn't number one be Danny Manning? Sure he was a good player but he was supposed to be a return on an aging superstar and we got jack squat out of him.

I agree with Dickau, Speedy, Hendu, Crawford, Norman, Stacey Augman?

Let's see? Speedy? I guess. He should definitely be there.

Manning? I don't know. I don't think he sucked, I think our GM sucked in that case. Manning actually played very well.

I actually take this post to just get another knock at Marvin

\

If you have a counter argument make a point, but if not.... ???

Do you disagree with Rumeal?

How about #1 Roy Marble?

Neither of those guys were with the Hawks very long but both were seen as bust because of where we drafted them. Being that Marvin is the highest draft pick in the history of the franchise and we still get excited when he has 2 solid games in a row, I think that definitely lands him on the list. Moreover, he got a second contract and still doesn't produce much more than he did as a rookie. More reason for him to make this list. All things considered he should be #1 on this list but I was being generous because he doesn't totally suck. However, I'm interested to hear why you believe that this is just about Diesel hating on Marvin or do you miss every game, the other team's broadcast group just laughing out loud at our choice of Marvin over CP3?? Yeah, I got mind control over them too?

[Randy]

How can anyone but Isaiah Rider be all time worst? Ruined team chemistry - led to the disolution of the entire team, resulting in the rebuilding process we are now six years into.

Jon Koncak would be second - way over paid for six years because he had a few good games in the playoffs.

I think Joe Johnson could well be on the list as well. He will be paid $120 million or so for six years, pretty much dooming the team to .500 records or worse as we won't be able to get out from under his contract.

There were lots of guys who were disappointing draft picks - too many to name, or even remember.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Randy

[AHF]

How can anyone but Isaiah Rider be all time worst? Ruined team chemistry - led to the disolution of the entire team, resulting in the rebuilding process we are now six years into.

Jon Koncak would be second - way over paid for six years because he had a few good games in the playoffs.

I think Joe Johnson could well be on the list as well. He will be paid $120 million or so for six years, pretty much dooming the team to .500 records or worse as we won't be able to get out from under his contract.

There were lots of guys who were disappointing draft picks - too many to name, or even remember.

Way too early to bury Joe. Way too early.

Isiah Rider was the first name that came to my head for this thread. We gave decided, somehow, that he was the future over Smitty. Ugh.

[IHeartAtlanta]

10. Acie Law

9. Mario West

8. Salim Stadomire

7. Anthony Johnson

6.Etan Thomas (the one time he got in he missed wide open layups)

5.Thomas Gardner

4.Sheldon Williams

3.Jearmy Richardson

2.Randolph Morris

1.Speedy Claxton

Havent been a fan too long but the idea of you putting marvin or joe on the list is insane :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

[Brokentree]

These are my 10 most disappointing players that have ever worn a Hawks uniform. Not all of these players are at fault. Take Bibby for example. I like him.. but man I liked him alot more 6 years ago. It's just disappointing to get him now by comparison. So alot of these are on management.

10. Mike Bibby- Very good player but the timing was poor. Trade for him just in time for him to help out for a year or two. Resign him thinking we're set for another 2-3 years to find that he's just about done as a starter. He's on this list because the Hawks have needed a point guard for years and we missed his window by maybe 2 years.

9. Speedy Claxton- Played a total of 1069 minutes in 3 years due to injury after signing as a free agent. Only saving grace is that he was involved in the trade to bring Jamal Crawford to the Hawks.

8. Acie Law- Drafted 11th overall and the 2nd point guard drafted overall. High expectations and alot of hype after shooting that winning shot against the Longhorns. Also involved in the Jamal Crawford deal.

7. Josh Childress- He picked Greece over playing for the Hawks. 6th overall pick in a very deep draft that under performed compared to players picked below him. 7th pick Luol Deng, 9th pick Andre Iguodala, 15th pick Al Jefferson, 17th pick Josh Smith, 20th pick Jameer Nelson.

6. LaPhonso Ellis- After playing a few good seasons for Denver he signed with Atlanta as a free agent at the age of 28. Only played in 78 games over two years in which his statistics dropped drastically.

5. Jeff Teague- Two years of hype and one good game that was all garbage minutes.

4. DerMarr Johnson- Car accident canceled his 3rd year but his first two were not very impressive after being picked 6th overall. Showed flashes of potential though.

3. Marvin Williams- Everyone knows this story.

2. Sheldon Williams- 5th overall pick that never produced. His per 36 stats with Denver this year are eerily similar to his per 36 stats from his rookie year. People are saying he's finally found a home and is being productive? I think not.

1. All the rentals players, end of career players, and headaches. The Glenn Robinsons. The Rasheed Wallaces. The Tom Gugliottas. The Kenny Andersons. The Gary Paytons. The Stephen Jacksons. The Isiah Riders. The Danny Mannings. The Kenny Smiths. Players that were good way before there were Hawks. Players that were good that played a very short time as a Hawk. Players that were good but a-holes.

[Diesel]

10. Acie Law

9. Mario West

8. Salim Stadomire

7. Anthony Johnson

6.Etan Thomas (the one time he got in he missed wide open layups)

5.Thomas Gardner

4.Sheldon Williams

3.Jearmy Richardson

2.Randolph Morris

1.Speedy Claxton

Havent been a fan too long but the idea of you putting marvin or joe on the list is insane :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

There were no expectations placed on Morris, Richardson, Gardner, West, Johnson (although he was reliable), or Thomas. None. We didn't spend draft picks or much money on any of these guys.

These are my 10 most disappointing players that have ever worn a Hawks uniform. Not all of these players are at fault. Take Bibby for example. I like him.. but man I liked him alot more 6 years ago. It's just disappointing to get him now by comparison. So alot of these are on management.

10. Mike Bibby- Very good player but the timing was poor. Trade for him just in time for him to help out for a year or two. Resign him thinking we're set for another 2-3 years to find that he's just about done as a starter. He's on this list because the Hawks have needed a point guard for years and we missed his window by maybe 2 years.

9. Speedy Claxton- Played a total of 1069 minutes in 3 years due to injury after signing as a free agent. Only saving grace is that he was involved in the trade to bring Jamal Crawford to the Hawks.

8. Acie Law- Drafted 11th overall and the 2nd point guard drafted overall. High expectations and alot of hype after shooting that winning shot against the Longhorns. Also involved in the Jamal Crawford deal.

7. Josh Childress- He picked Greece over playing for the Hawks. 6th overall pick in a very deep draft that under performed compared to players picked below him. 7th pick Luol Deng, 9th pick Andre Iguodala, 15th pick Al Jefferson, 17th pick Josh Smith, 20th pick Jameer Nelson.

6. LaPhonso Ellis- After playing a few good seasons for Denver he signed with Atlanta as a free agent at the age of 28. Only played in 78 games over two years in which his statistics dropped drastically.

5. Jeff Teague- Two years of hype and one good game that was all garbage minutes.

4. DerMarr Johnson- Car accident canceled his 3rd year but his first two were not very impressive after being picked 6th overall. Showed flashes of potential though.

3. Marvin Williams- Everyone knows this story.

2. Sheldon Williams- 5th overall pick that never produced. His per 36 stats with Denver this year are eerily similar to his per 36 stats from his rookie year. People are saying he's finally found a home and is being productive? I think not.

1. All the rentals players, end of career players, and headaches. The Glenn Robinsons. The Rasheed Wallaces. The Tom Gugliottas. The Kenny Andersons. The Gary Paytons. The Stephen Jacksons. The Isiah Riders. The Danny Mannings. The Kenny Smiths. Players that were good way before there were Hawks. Players that were good that played a very short time as a Hawk. Players that were good but a-holes.

Actually, Robinson wasn't a rental, but disappointing none the less. I don't fault DeMarr. Laphonzo is interesting. When he did play, he was good but Phonzy rarely played.

[coachx]

Scott Hastings, Hanno Mottola, Roshown McCloud, and Craig Claxton MUST be on the bottom 10 list.

[Diesel]

Way too early to bury Joe. Way too early.

Isiah Rider was the first name that came to my head for this thread. We gave decided, somehow, that he was the future over Smitty. Ugh.

The thing about Rider is that he wasn't the basis for the trade. He was a throw in to see if we could make him work in a different situation. The trade was actually for Jim Jackson. Rider had an ending contract and we ended up cutting him before his contract ended. I think in that era, the biggest disappointment was actually Jason Terry. Terry never did learn to be a PG and that allowed guys like Rider and Big Dog to take over the offense. If we could have Terry back now, I think he'd make a difference playing beside Joe.

Scott Hastings, Hanno Mottola, Roshown McCloud, and Craig Claxton MUST be on the bottom 10 list.

I liked Hastings. He was tough. Mottola wasn't bad, he was just slow. McCloud... You got a point but what do you really expect from a dukie. Claxton... I thought long and hard about him. His contract was killer. His injuries made him a lame duck. I would have to add him.

Here's the real question...

Did Claxton's contract hurt us more than Norman and Rassmussen's contracts? I felt that Norman and Rassmussen was the reason why we could never get a SF to play beside Mookie, Smith and Deke. I remember at one time were in negotiations with Rick Fox and it was the money that made us lose him. The same with Ced Ceballos. Either of those guys would have made a big difference. Instead, we had Norman and Rassmussen.

[AHF]

The thing about Rider is that he wasn't the basis for the trade. He was a throw in to see if we could make him work in a different situation. The trade was actually for Jim Jackson. Rider had an ending contract and we ended up cutting him before his contract ended. I think in that era, the biggest disappointment was actually Jason Terry. Terry never did learn to be a PG and that allowed guys like Rider and Big Dog to take over the offense. If we could have Terry back now, I think he'd make a difference playing beside Joe.

The trade was based on Rider as well as Jackson. Rider was the slightly younger player with more upside. The idea was that we would get two more athletic starters for the one superior and aging Steve Smith.

Jackson was pretty disappointing with us as well for what it is worth. He was a solid player but never an impact guy meaning that the trade was a failure unless Rider stepped it up. Rider was, of course, more disappointing to me, though, because of his behavior. At least Jackson tried.

I don't get people listing guys like Rasheed, though. How can someone who was with the team for one day really be a notable bottom 10 Hawk of all-time? Especially when you trade him one day later for the pick used to take Josh Smith?

I'll take a dozen Rasheeds with that kind of result, thank you very much!

If I was going to do a collective #1, it would be all the Adam Keefe style draft picks that flopped. Babcock's failures were legendary and Knight had some big misses as well.

Edited November 30, 2010 by AHF

[Diesel]

The trade was based on Rider as well as Jackson. Rider was the slightly younger player with more upside. The idea was that we would get two more athletic starters for the one superior and aging Steve Smith.

Jackson was pretty disappointing with us as well for what it is worth. He was a solid player but never an impact guy meaning that the trade was a failure unless Rider stepped it up. Rider was, of course, more disappointing to me, though, because of his behavior. At least Jackson tried.

I don't get people listing guys like Rasheed, though. How can someone who was with the team for one day really be a notable bottom 10 Hawk of all-time? Especially when you trade him one day later for the pick used to take Josh Smith?

I'll take a dozen Rasheeds with that kind of result, thank you very much!

If I was going to do a collective #1, it would be all the Adam Keefe style draft picks that flopped. Babcock's failures were legendary and Knight had some big misses as well.

I think that rubber band man Jackson was a disappointment compared to Smith. Actually that whole team was disappointing because we went from a team that could have been in contention before the lockout to a team that was dismantled and went on a 10 year soul searching expedition afterwords. Rider was a problem child in Portland. He had all kind of mess with that team (which was loaded). Rider got the most attention out of the trade because he did not stop being controversial but I remember Babcock calling the trade a "Calculated Risk". I remember him going on about how they wanted to give Rider and chance but realized that they may have to get rid of him if he didn't work out. Nothing like that was ever said about Jim Jackson. It may have been damage control at the time, but it sounded like Rider was a test drive and Jackson was the principle of that stupid trade.

[macdaddy]

I hate seeing Mike Bibby's name pop up. Without him I think we're a 7 or 8 seed and first round exit. At least the guy shows up every night.

[Sothron]

Shellhead, Marvin, Ed Grey, Acie Law, Marble, Koncrap, McCloud, Speedy, Mottola and the all time worst Hawk: JR Rider. The only time in my life I've been ashamed to be a Hawks fan was trading away one of the classiest Hawks ever for a guy I honestly thought had a 50/50 chance of pulling out a gun and killing the team on the team bus or plane.

[lethalweapon3]

25. LaPhonso Ellis

24. Acie Law IV

23. Ken Norman

22. Ennis Whatley

21. Doug Edwards

20. John Vallely

19. Esteban Batista

18. Cedric Bozeman

17. Shelden Williams

16. Glenn Robinson

15. Roshown McLeod

14. Danny Manning

13. Tim McCormick

12. Cal Bowdler

11. Sly Williams

10. Morlon Wiley

9. Alexander Volkov

8. Jon Koncak

7. Ed Gray

6. Priest Lauderdale

5. Blair Rasmussen

4. Dudley Bradley

3. George Trapp

2. Antoine Walker

1. Isiah Rider

~lw3

Edited November 30, 2010 by lethalweapon3

[lethalweapon3]

26. Keith Edmonson

~lw3

[AHF]

I think that rubber band man Jackson was a disappointment compared to Smith. Actually that whole team was disappointing because we went from a team that could have been in contention before the lockout to a team that was dismantled and went on a 10 year soul searching expedition afterwords. Rider was a problem child in Portland. He had all kind of mess with that team (which was loaded). Rider got the most attention out of the trade because he did not stop being controversial but I remember Babcock calling the trade a "Calculated Risk". I remember him going on about how they wanted to give Rider and chance but realized that they may have to get rid of him if he didn't work out. Nothing like that was ever said about Jim Jackson. It may have been damage control at the time, but it sounded like Rider was a test drive and Jackson was the principle of that stupid trade.

I think nothing was said like that about Jim Jackson because he was a known, lesser quantity that was signed on a reasonable deal for multiple years. For the deal to work, Rider had to come through. That was the calculated risk - the downside was downgrading to Jackson at a cheaper price and the upside was the upside of Rider. Babcock thought the risk/reward justified the deal.

Edited December 1, 2010 by AHF

[macdaddy]

I think nothing was said like that about Jim Jackson because he was a known, lesser quantity that was signed on a reasonable deal for multiple years. For the deal to work, Rider had to come through. That was the calculated risk - the downside was downgrading to Jackson at a cheaper price and the upside was the upside of Rider. Babcock thought the risk/reward justified the deal.

Not to rehash but the maddening thing (probably to Babcock too) was that this was completely out of character for him. He had built his reputation as a gm on signing guys with good character. To risk your franchise on someone so unstable wasn't much of a calculated risk. It was going all in on the roulette table.

The one thing a Hawks GM has to learn is to completely shut out the local media's opinion because most of them have very little understanding of the nba because they put all their energy into football and nascar. We looked bad in the playoffs that last year with Mookie and Smitty but we could have retooled without blowing up and I don' t think it would have resulted in 10 years of futility. Hindsight I know.