I've always been flummoxed by the passes MW gets..

[Guest Walter]

...but it surprises even me to say that MW is a COMPLETE waste! How on earth does Joe Johnson go out of the lineup and MW average less per game in more minutes per game? 2nd to JC1, MW would seem the primary individual asked to step up his scoring in JJ's absence. Marvin should at least be putting up his earlier career, "pre-Crawford" scoring levels of 14.8 PPG.

Please trade this bum! Trade him for something, anything. Package him with a 1st rder and get something. Maybe his knee is still hurting. Whatever. However, MW can't even build up his trade value correctly! So frustrating.

W

[Swatguy]

...but it surprises even me to say that MW is a COMPLETE waste! How on earth does Joe Johnson go out of the lineup and MW average less per game in more minutes per game? 2nd to JC1, MW would seem the primary individual asked to step up his scoring in JJ's absence. Marvin should at least be putting up his earlier career, "pre-Crawford" scoring levels of 14.8 PPG.

Please trade this bum! Trade him for something, anything. Package him with a 1st rder and get something. Maybe his knee is still hurting. Whatever. However, MW can't even build up his trade value correctly! So frustrating.

W

At this rate I'd package Marvin Joe and a #1 for Carmelo. Even if we do not sign him. It may force a S&T in the summer. At least we would have cap. With Orlando not winning a ring this year and next, perhaps we can sign Dwight and Paul. Trade the disappointments now and get back in the lab, Geez.

[NineOhTheRino]

Marvin followed a 22 pt night with 5, 2 and 7 pt nights. That's Marvin in a nutshell. It's not that we don't clown Marvin but I think it's to point that no one really give a [bleep] about Marvin anymore.

he tis what te tis...

Edited December 15, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[Guest Walter]

Marvin followed a 22 pt night with 5, 2 and 7 pt nights. That's Marvin in a nutshell. It's not that we don't clown Marvin but I think it's to point that no one really give a [bleep] about Marvin anymore.

he tis what te tis...

I'm dreamy for the MW of old. You know the same one from 3 years ago who always appeared defeated and didn't appear to work hard or care much but still somehow scored 14 PPG. Where is THAT Marvin? WTF is wrong with him?

W

[Wretch]

Marvin turns into conduit...that ball goes right through him every play. Like a hot potato... He will defer to anyone and anything on that court.

Every once in a while, something will bite him on the *ss and he'll take it strong.

Every once in a while, he's in the perfect spot for a jumper and he'll hit it.

[DJlaysitup]

Personally, I am beyond flummoxed and in a state of flabbergast.

[gsuteke]

There are no more Marvin apologists on HS that I can think of. That ship sailed after Woody got canned.

[Vol4ever]

At this rate I'd package Marvin Joe and a #1 for Carmelo. Even if we do not sign him. It may force a S&T in the summer. At least we would have cap. With Orlando not winning a ring this year and next, perhaps we can sign Dwight and Paul. Trade the disappointments now and get back in the lab, Geez.

I agree, I think we have reached the pinnacle with this team and they are not going any farther, as so it seems. I have always defended Marvin but he has lost me now, he has all the talent in the world, but most NBA players have talent, it takes mental toughness to be a star in this league and he does not have it.

I would be talking to the Nuggetts if I was Sund.

[Atlantaholic]

Larry Drew already prefers Damien Wilkins to Marvin

[terrell]

STILL cant hit wide open jumpers. STILL getting his shot blocked by smaller players. STILL sitting on the bench at crunch time. STILL wrapping that towel around his head. STILL just standing around waiting on something to happen. STILL looking for daps after shooting a free throw. STILL falling down after a layup or dunk. STILL cant finish at the rim with an and 1. STILL having 1 good game and then 10 bad ones. STILL walking like an old man with back problems. STILL wabbling like a DUCK. And you know what's puzzling? He's STILL startin. Wow!

[Admin]

Marvin's decrease in scoring can be directly attributed to the acquisition of Bibby, followed up by the signing of Flip and then the trade for Crawford. In addition to that the touches for our center position is another big reason why Marvin isn't scoring as much. All you have to do is look at the nimbers ...

Marvin FGA per season:

07 - 918

08 - 622

09 - 664

10 - 615 (projected)

Starting PG FGA per season:

07 - 678 (AJ & Bibby)

08 - 1005

09 - 644

10 - 760 (projected)

Starting Center FGA per season:

07 - 668

08 - 594

09 - 847

10 - 1215 (projected)

6th man FGA per season:

07 - 573 (Childress)

08 - 795 (Flip)

09 - 1105 (Jamal)

10 - 1071 (projected)

By year the combined FG attempts for our PG, C and 6th man were:

07 - 1,919

08 - 2,394

09 - 2,596

10 - 3,046

So to me it's pretty easy to see that with this massive increase in shot attempts for these 3 positions had to come a decrease in shot attempts elsewhere and Marvin has been the primary source of decreased shots and while that doesn't make any of us feel better it's only logical that it had to happen since nobody else in the starting lineup would be giving up shots.

[Diesel]

Marvin's decrease in scoring can be directly attributed to the acquisition of Bibby, followed up by the signing of Flip and then the trade for Crawford. In addition to that the touches for our center position is another big reason why Marvin isn't scoring as much. All you have to do is look at the nimbers ...

I knew it wouldn't take long to start blaming other people for Marvin's unproductiveness.

That's been the case since he's been here.

I could have sworn that we moved Al Harrington and JChillz so that Marvin could fluorish and grow.

It's funny to me that in all the excuse making that the excuse machine can come up with, these same factors don't seem to affect Josh Smith and Al Horford?

Jamal is not on the floor at the same time as Marv.. yet he gets blamed for Marvin's nonproduction too?

[Admin]

I knew it wouldn't take long to start blaming other people for Marvin's unproductiveness.

That's been the case since he's been here.

I could have sworn that we moved Al Harrington and JChillz so that Marvin could fluorish and grow.

It's funny to me that in all the excuse making that the excuse machine can come up with, these same factors don't seem to affect Josh Smith and Al Horford?

Jamal is not on the floor at the same time as Marv.. yet he gets blamed for Marvin's nonproduction too?

I figured you'd chime in and call what I laid out "blame" for others which is NOT AT ALL what I did. I simply laid out the FACTS that since 07 we've added multiple players that are better scorers than Marvin and the # of shot attempts for their positions has increased quite a bit and in that time Marvin's have gone down. That in no way implies that he is blameless as if he were a better scorer his attempts wouldn't go down but it's an undeniable fact that in 07 Marvin was higher on the talent totem poll than he is now.

As to your assertion that these factors haven't affected Josh Smith and Al Horford they actually have effected both as Josh's FGA's have also gone down (1,133 in 07, 849 in 08 and 999 in 09) and Horford is one of the factors and his FGA's have gone up significantly.

So spin it any way that you want but I was not defending Marvin but simply showing the facts rather than relying on sarcasm to try and make a factless point.

[Dejay]

Flummoxed? I was past that point when he was selected over Deron and Paul six years ago. I'm downright pi$$ed off that he's still starting. Different coach, different philosophy, no JJ hogging all the shots since he's been injured, and the same ole Marvin putting up 9/5 while CP3 and Deron are making hotel reservations for the All-Star game. And folks here wonder why the stands at Philips remain empty?

I said that it was a mistake back then when BK took him and our team is still paying the price with interest now. With each passing day, it becomes even clearer that this was simply a lousy pick. No one in their right minds can possible defend it; not now. Even Stacey Augmon showed more aggression on offense when he was here than Marvin does. I wouldn't be as down on him if he did other things well but Horford averages more steals and assists than Marvin does. So tell me, what is he really out there doing?

[Randy]

I guess I'll pile on too. I could see MW getting fewer shots if we've got more talent out there taking shots. But that should mean that MW would be taking better shots and hitting a higher percentage. But he's not - his 3pt % is down from the 08-09 season and his 2 pt % is pretty much unchanged. I think his decline goes directly to him getting a contract extension. He's got his $, just doens't care. The year before his deal is up, may show improvement.

[Wretch]

Marvin's decrease in scoring can be directly attributed to the acquisition of Bibby, followed up by the signing of Flip and then the trade for Crawford. In addition to that the touches for our center position is another big reason why Marvin isn't scoring as much. All you have to do is look at the nimbers ...

Marvin FGA per season:

07 - 918

08 - 622

09 - 664

10 - 615 (projected)

Starting PG FGA per season:

07 - 678 (AJ & Bibby)

08 - 1005

09 - 644

10 - 760 (projected)

Starting Center FGA per season:

07 - 668

08 - 594

09 - 847

10 - 1215 (projected)

6th man FGA per season:

07 - 573 (Childress)

08 - 795 (Flip)

09 - 1105 (Jamal)

10 - 1071 (projected)

By year the combined FG attempts for our PG, C and 6th man were:

07 - 1,919

08 - 2,394

09 - 2,596

10 - 3,046

So to me it's pretty easy to see that with this massive increase in shot attempts for these 3 positions had to come a decrease in shot attempts elsewhere and Marvin has been the primary source of decreased shots and while that doesn't make any of us feel better it's only logical that it had to happen since nobody else in the starting lineup would be giving up shots.

There is no question that this what has affected Marvin's production. I knew that many moons ago and have been saying since day one that we need to move guys out of the way for him (and all of our young guys for that matter). However...that's just it. It didn't matter who we had at any of these positions. Marvin was going to defer to them. He simply does not have the fire. He has the opposite of fire. Like...a wet mop or something. He's not a terrible player or a lazy person or the Antichrist...

He just does not have it in him to be anything but a ball conduit on offense. He does not have the mentality to "break out." There is nothing about his personality or his demeanor that indicates that he ever will. He is more quiet than JJ, the LEAST aggressive guy on the team, and will do exactly what he is told to do (or not told to do). Which means...Marvin will never put the ball on the floor and make something happen. He is always going to be the 5th option on the floor...and that's in HIS mind.

Which is a sh!tty shame.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Wretch

[Diesel]

I figured you'd chime in and call what I laid out "blame" for others which is NOT AT ALL what I did. I simply laid out the FACTS that since 07 we've added multiple players that are better scorers than Marvin and the # of shot attempts for their positions has increased quite a bit and in that time Marvin's have gone down. That in no way implies that he is blameless as if he were a better scorer his attempts wouldn't go down but it's an undeniable fact that in 07 Marvin was higher on the talent totem poll than he is now.

As to your assertion that these factors haven't affected Josh Smith and Al Horford they actually have effected both as Josh's FGA's have also gone down (1,133 in 07, 849 in 08 and 999 in 09) and Horford is one of the factors and his FGA's have gone up significantly.

So spin it any way that you want but I was not defending Marvin but simply showing the facts rather than relying on sarcasm to try and make a factless point.

Oh no... Horf wasn;t affected by them because Horf is one of them? OK I see. I guess anybody not affected by incoming players is one of the players who are affecting Marvin?

How about we say it this way. Marvin is not growing. Marvin doesn't have the personality to grow. Anytime some scrub who can score comes along, Marvin will always defer to them. My god, you said Flip took shots from Marvin. How many other top 5 draft picks does this happen to?

[exodus]

In my view the fatal flaw in Marvin's game is his jumper. He can't make wide open jumpers with any consistency and he certainly isnt good at creating his own shot off the dribble and making it.

[Diesel]

I guess I'll pile on too. I could see MW getting fewer shots if we've got more talent out there taking shots. But that should mean that MW would be taking better shots and hitting a higher percentage. But he's not - his 3pt % is down from the 08-09 season and his 2 pt % is pretty much unchanged. I think his decline goes directly to him getting a contract extension. He's got his $, just doens't care. The year before his deal is up, may show improvement.

08-09... Oh yeah, that was a contract year right?

[Admin]

Oh no... Horf wasn;t affected by them because Horf is one of them? OK I see. I guess anybody not affected by incoming players is one of the players who are affecting Marvin?

How about we say it this way. Marvin is not growing. Marvin doesn't have the personality to grow. Anytime some scrub who can score comes along, Marvin will always defer to them. My god, you said Flip took shots from Marvin. How many other top 5 draft picks does this happen to?

Horford IS a factor in the change in number of shot attempts because he has increased the number of shot attempts for the starting center position. Is that difficult to comprehend?

AGAIN I'm not making excuses for Marvin nor am I defending him and I'm NOT happy with him either. What Wretch said above exactly describes how I feel about him.