joe johnson with another 6-20 shooting night

[gsuteke]

What's the point? His shooting stroke is not going to get better in practice. Mean whille that is 3 to 4 games we lose of the team getting re-adjusted to having him out there. If we can throw away 3 or 4 games then let it be with Joe and the team working out the kinks. The Doc says he's healthy so what's the risk?

My point is there's a fine line where the additional assists don't make up for the 25% shooting nights especially considering the volume of shots Joe takes. "Just cuz" Craw is hurt now doesn't justify running Joe out there prematurely.

I thought there was something wrong with Joe before we found out he was hurt and now I'd like to see him given the 4 weeks.

That's obviously not going to happen at this point and IMO it borders on negligence at this point.

[HawkItus]

My point is there's a fine line where the additional assists don't make up for the 25% shooting nights especially considering the volume of shots Joe takes. "Just cuz" Craw is hurt now doesn't justify running Joe out there prematurely.

I thought there was something wrong with Joe before we found out he was hurt and now I'd like to see him given the 4 weeks.

That's obviously not going to happen at this point and IMO it borders on negligence at this point.

I still don't understand why it is negligent? If he's healthy he's healthy. Have you ever had a serious injury? I dislocated my knee in college and until it was healthy I couldn't do anything without Doc's permission. Once he said go, he meant go. Rest is not going to help an injury that is healed. Joe playing and shooting is the best therapy if he is healed. 3-4 games is not going to make the situation better from what is being reported that the doctor told Joe.

[Guest Walter]

I still don't understand why it is negligent? If he's healthy he's healthy. Have you ever had a serious injury? I dislocated my knee in college and until it was healthy I couldn't do anything without Doc's permission. Once he said go, he meant go. Rest is not going to help an injury that is healed. Joe playing and shooting is the best therapy if he is healed. 3-4 games is not going to make the situation better from what is being reported that the doctor told Joe.

I agree with GSUteke here 100%. "Joe playing" is not the best therapy. Watch an NBA game and how physical it is and you know that. Joe shooting is good therapy but he can do that without taking hit after hit to that arm. Frankly if I were another team I'd be running JJ off 100 screens a game and see how that elbow holds up pushing off.

Moreover, Joe has a hand injury also. The needed rest would be good for his hand injury.

Lastly, Joe's rest was good for the team in the long run. This team has to find other positional options and/or other players who will step up. Can't do that when not only the players but the COACHING STAFF are busy deferring to Joe Johnson.

W

[Diesel]

I agree with GSUteke here 100%. "Joe playing" is not the best therapy. Watch an NBA game and how physical it is and you know that. Joe shooting is good therapy but he can do that without taking hit after hit to that arm. Frankly if I were another team I'd be running JJ off 100 screens a game and see how that elbow holds up pushing off.

Moreover, Joe has a hand injury also. The needed rest would be good for his hand injury.

Lastly, Joe's rest was good for the team in the long run. This team has to find other positional options and/or other players who will step up. Can't do that when not only the players but the COACHING STAFF are busy deferring to Joe Johnson.

W

The fact that Joe came back after 15 days is amazing. However, even that being the case, Joe still has to work on his mechanics. When you watch him shoot, his elbows are not tucked in. I think this is something he picked up while he was injured to relieve the discomfort. He should probably have spent a week or so working with Mark Price on his mechanics. It seems as though he spent 4 months learning to shoot with bad mechanics, he should have spent some time retraining his body.

[Joker]

Yep, Joe shot is broke. Thankfully, the rest of his game is Joe-proof. I am glad he's back.

[Chickenstanley]

How does anyone really know the legitimacy of press drivel, such as .... " he's expected to miss (X) games/weeks with an injury"?

It's much easier to sell the public on a guy who "works hard and comes back early" --- than it is to have to tell them that a guy making $250,000 a game -- is not even back on the job when he was expected to be.

We don't know anything. Only what we actually see. Otherwise, it's only second-hand information related to us by people who make their living promoting the league and it's players to us.

CS

[Sothron]

I'll be honest: I like Joe, always have, but considering how piss poor the East is having him take at least a week off after he was pronounced "ok" would make me feel more comfortable about him long term. What if he rushed back and has some kind of issue with the elbow that requires additional surgery and the recovery goes into the playoffs? That's the only thing that matters. I applaud Joe for coming back way early but I have to wonder why the Hawks are letting their huge investment risk this at this time.

[jhay610]

I'll be honest: I like Joe, always have, but considering how piss poor the East is having him take at least a week off after he was pronounced "ok" would make me feel more comfortable about him long term. What if he rushed back and has some kind of issue with the elbow that requires additional surgery and the recovery goes into the playoffs? That's the only thing that matters. I applaud Joe for coming back way early but I have to wonder why the Hawks are letting their huge investment risk this at this time.

Surely, surely, no matter how poorly some of us think the Hawks are run, we must all acknowledge that at the NBA level JJ has access to the very best medical staff, correct? I don't think they would let him go out there if there was any chance of further injury in any case, but particularly given his contract and status as a multi-trip all star.

As Nire has said this was an arthroscopic procedure -- when it's healed he's ready. I have to believe he would not be out there if there was any chance of reinjury.

Some are of the opinion that he should practice for a week before coming back. I get that, but as a player I have always found that you don't get your rhythm back until you get in games and work it out. With Craw out I think that getting Joe back in the mix -- limiting his minutes initially and then working him back up to the mid to high 30's (minutes) is the optimum course of action

[Diesel]

Surely, surely, no matter how poorly some of us think the Hawks are run, we must all acknowledge that at the NBA level JJ has access to the very best medical staff, correct? I don't think they would let him go out there if there was any chance of further injury in any case, but particularly given his contract and status as a multi-trip all star.

As Nire has said this was an arthroscopic procedure -- when it's healed he's ready. I have to believe he would not be out there if there was any chance of reinjury.

Some are of the opinion that he should practice for a week before coming back. I get that, but as a player I have always found that you don't get your rhythm back until you get in games and work it out. With Craw out I think that getting Joe back in the mix -- limiting his minutes initially and then working him back up to the mid to high 30's (minutes) is the optimum course of action

I wouldn't say work on his game for a week to get his wind back or to get his rhythm back... I would agree with you, he could get his wind back (after 2 weeks) by riding the bike and his rhythm is definitely an in game thing. But I say that his shooting mechanics has changed. It's a small thing but it makes a big difference. Hopefully, in his reps they work on that.

[benhillboy]

Anyone ever explored the notion that Joe simply isn't that good?

[Diesel]

Anyone ever explored the notion that Joe simply isn't that good?

Nah. Joe usually leads us in scoring and assists, puts up good percentages and plays good defense. While he's not flashy like Wade or others, his contribution shows that he's a very good player (not great but very good). It's only the Joe haters, who would rather see us combing the lottery looking for the next best thing, that believes Joe is not good. It's obvious that coaches around the league recognize Joe's value (otherwise, he wouldn't be a reigning 4 time allstar).

[coachx]

Joe was rusty will be the excuse? Ya think? I'm getting fristrated at this point with the Hawks management and coaching staff.

How do you play somebody on friday who started shooting on Monday? By the way he shot longer shots tuesday and wednesday as the week went on.

Drew was quoted pre-game as saying he found out 20 minutes earlier Joe was starting tonight.

Really? Seriously, really? Isn't this fool the Head Coach? Doesn't he make the lineup calls?

This thread is the joke !

How about giving JJ props for rushing back from surgery to play when the team needs him the most. With Crawford out with a bad back and Mo's knee hurting the Hawks need minutes at SG.

Here comes JJ playing 15 days after elbow surgery that normally has a 4 to 6 week recovery time.........and you have the gall to blast him b/c his shot is off less then 3 weeks after elbow surgery.

Come on man !

[MaceCase]

Anyone ever explored the notion that Joe simply isn't that good?

I think you've lost all privileges to ridicule Joe, at least to the new year, considering that you were the one that said due to his "poor athleticism and conditioning" "the flu would have this dude out for a week"

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/353830-damaged-goods/page__hl__benhillboy

Elbow surgery can't even knock him out for two weeks....hate away oh smug captain.

[gsuteke]

This thread is the joke !

How about giving JJ props for rushing back from surgery to play when the team needs him the most. With Crawford out with a bad back and Mo's knee hurting the Hawks need minutes at SG.

Here comes JJ playing 15 days after elbow surgery that normally has a 4 to 6 week recovery time.........and you have the gall to blast him b/c his shot is off less then 3 weeks after elbow surgery.

Come on man !

You and the dozen or so others who have taken issue with this thread are completely missing the point or better yet the context in which it was written.

Please read through it again.

Anyone ever explored the notion that Joe simply isn't that good?

Please don't allow this post to throw this thread extremely OT

This isn't a referendum on JJ

Edited December 21, 2010 by gsuteke

[benhillboy]

Okay. Let's just say I'm a passive fan and shut my mouth about our top "scorer" who is struggling from the field with his jumper, but is totally inept at breaking down defenders off the dribble and getting rim attempts, free throw attempts, what have you. How long do I wait before I can bash him after returning from injury? I mean the guy's only been playing ball his entire life, with pretty much the same jumpshot mechanics. 2 weeks? A month? Then, what is the standard he should be held to? 20-5-5, 2 or less TO's in 35 min shooing 45% for a week against good competition?(don't hold your breath) Then when he gets into another rut, what is that, the injury is flaring up again? Give him some more time to get it together? Please, all fans of Joe's game, give me a specific date, stat line, and duration of sustained performance when you guys can say "Joe's officially back" and not debate the seriousness of his injury as an excuse for his horrid play, which at the end of the day I could really care less about when The Boss now knows how to will us to win a considerable amount of the time. Within the span of a minute last night, the guy carried for a turnover, lost his dribble lazily followed by a foul, then traveled for a third consecutive turnover! This is the guy you all swear by though.

Edited December 21, 2010 by benhillboy

[tremor]

I liked how JJ went inside against JRich after missing some jumpshots early in the game and guard him well at the other end (had one open three and he made it).

Joe also made open three in the 4th, he'll be fine.

Edited December 22, 2010 by tremor

[Admin]

For the Joe haters ...

That's what great players do," Scott said. "Those guys are difference-makers. Joe's not an All-Star and one of the better players in this league for nothing. When they needed some big shots, he seemed to make the timely ones."Johnson has played four games since he missed nine games recovering from surgery.

"I got into a little rhythm in the fourth quarter," Johnson said. "I hadn't been feeling that rhythm."

Johnson was initially expected to be out four to six weeks, but he returned less than three weeks after the procedure to remove loose cartilage in his shooting elbow.

"I still can't extend all the way," Johnson said, referring to his right arm. "But I can come out with a free mind."

It's going to take a while for him to get his extension back and work through that scar tissue so I'm not going to expect games like this every night but they should start happening a little more than we've seen recently and eventually he'll return to his All-Star form.

[jhay610]

"I still can't extend all the way," Johnson said, referring to his right arm. "But I can come out with a free mind."

Yeah Joe. Free your miiiiiiiiiiiiind, and the rest will follow. We learned that a long time ago.

[Atlantaholic]

I'm just glad Joe looked like Joe again. It has been too long since I've seen him play that way and it was great to see. Hopefully we start seeing this from him on a more regular basis.

[jhay610]

Okay. Let's just say I'm a passive fan and shut my mouth about our top "scorer" who is struggling from the field with his jumper, but is totally inept at breaking down defenders off the dribble and getting rim attempts, free throw attempts, what have you. How long do I wait before I can bash him after returning from injury? I mean the guy's only been playing ball his entire life, with pretty much the same jumpshot mechanics. 2 weeks? A month? Then, what is the standard he should be held to? 20-5-5, 2 or less TO's in 35 min shooing 45% for a week against good competition?(don't hold your breath) Then when he gets into another rut, what is that, the injury is flaring up again? Give him some more time to get it together? Please, all fans of Joe's game, give me a specific date, stat line, and duration of sustained performance when you guys can say "Joe's officially back" and not debate the seriousness of his injury as an excuse for his horrid play, which at the end of the day I could really care less about when The Boss now knows how to will us to win a considerable amount of the time. Within the span of a minute last night, the guy carried for a turnover, lost his dribble lazily followed by a foul, then traveled for a third consecutive turnover! This is the guy you all swear by though.

He's answering the call here lately...of course we haven't heard much from you on the subject.

Edited January 18, 2011 by jhay610