The Chicago Experiment: a study in how to build a team

[frankthetank966]

I stopped reading after you said center is the most important position. Thats absurd! Centers are great and all but they are limited. How many teams in the past few years have gone to the finals on the back of a center with the exception of Orlando? Rose, a PG is leading Chi, Kobe a SG has led LA the past few years, LeBron and D wade are both guards... PG is the most important player on the field they lead the way and make the game.

[Joker]

A superstar is the most important. If you can get one. Get one. If you have the personnel for one to thrive in, you win majorly like Boston did after their trade for the Big 3.

[dlpin]

The Bulls experiment is an study in how luck matters.

They were one of the front runners to get KG and didn't get him because they didn't want to throw both Ben Gordon and Luol Deng in the mix. And so Ben Gordon left for free and Luol Deng is widely considered to be overpaid. Then they hired an overmatched nobody in Del Negro. And they have a looong history of draft busts (Eddy Curry, Marcys Fizer, Chris Mimm. They traded away Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas.

Then they got lucky. 1st pick that got them Rose, Thibodeau got passed for headcoach by half a dozen teams, and their original favorite, D'antoni, picked the Knicks.

They are a prime example of why in the nba it's better to be lucky than good.

[Atlantaholic]

The Bulls experiment is an study in how luck matters.

They were one of the front runners to get KG and didn't get him because they didn't want to throw both Ben Gordon and Luol Deng in the mix. And so Ben Gordon left for free and Luol Deng is widely considered to be overpaid. Then they hired an overmatched nobody in Del Negro. And they have a looong history of draft busts (Eddy Curry, Marcys Fizer, Chris Mimm. They traded away Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas.

Then they got lucky. 1st pick that got them Rose, Thibodeau got passed for headcoach by half a dozen teams, and their original favorite, D'antoni, picked the Knicks.

They are a prime example of why in the nba it's better to be lucky than good.

Yeah, pretty much. It's not like this team is a product of carefully planned moves. They basically made a bunch of s*** moves for 10 years and then got an MVP caliber player in the draft, and then lucked out on a coach who got all the scrubs that they had accumulated to play some defense. Not really a blueprint one can follow.

[QuantumHawkz]

Let's not get carried away with the Bulls talk. Derrick Rose is a superstar. The Miami Heat have two superstars. Calls were a big reason the Bulls beat us. The Bulls will not be getting the calls they got this round next round.

The best thing the Bulls have going for them is they got the luck of the lottery ball. If they get the 2nd or 3rd pick they have OJ Mayo or Beasley and they are not a study of how to build a successful team.

Why u neg me 3 times in one night? it was like everytime i post u was there behind me for the neg, after i got a + 3 from the same post from others.What's up? let me know whats your problem

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

Why u neg me 3 times in one night? it was like everytime i post u was there behind me for the neg, after i got a + 3 from the same post from others.What's up? let me know whats your problem

You keep saying Drew needs to come back. I don't have a problem with you but unless you want this core back Drew does not need to be back, he came with Woody he is just as much a part of the core and longterm problem as anyone, I guess I should not have negged you everytime you say it, just neg me back but that's the issue

[QuantumHawkz]

You keep saying Drew needs to come back. I don't have a problem with you but unless you want this core back Drew does not need to be back, he came with Woody he is just as much a part of the core and longterm problem as anyone, I guess I should not have negged you everytime you say it, just neg me back but that's the issue

Is that it? your entitled to your own opinion, but neg 4 time by the same dude 3 times within the same night looks like you have a personal vendetta. But its all good your a hawks fan like iam so that makes us fam, got nothin but love for yea.But forget me it looks like you have a personal vendetta against LD, WOW

Edited May 13, 2011 by QuantumHawkz

[NJHAWK]

Homecourt?

[DrReality]

Rose is not just another pg. And don't forget their coach. He a great defensive coach.

[Wretch]

It's pointless debating it, because it is what it is. But at the same time, you cannot discount it. Did the Lakers luck up with Kobe? Absolutely. With Gasol? Absolutely. With Shaq? Possibly. Bulls? Twice now. Orlando? Well, they stunk and got the #1 ping-pong-ball pick didn't they? Miami? Pfft. lol Cleveland in the LeBron years? Yes. San Antonio? Two of the best 7 footers to ever play? Yepity yepper.

- Quoth the Damn Wretch

It's like that guy who doesn't come to work on time, surfs the internet all day, doesn't volunteer for assignments, and takes long lunches complaining about people who are butt-kissing, but DOING their job - and getting promoted. I think people are far too concerned with luck (butt-kissing) and might even be calling it something that it isn't.

How can we sit here and talk about luck, when throughout the game there are so many things that people chalk up to "luck." Like the lucky shots at the end of the quarter from nearly half court... Guess what? If they don't get the ball up, the shot doesn't go down. Vince carter hit one of those against us a few seasons ago to win a game, luck? Maybe, but with a smattering of the shot clock left (like what, 7 or so seconds), why didn't we force him to put it on the floor? Don't give him a wide open shot from anywhere.

Same principle with the draft. Before you can have a lucky "pick", you have to be in there the get the damn pick. There is no luck to sucking. I wouldn't classify any of the lottery bound teams lucky. If anything, they are unfortunate (the opposite of luck) to end up with a crappy record. Some teams (San Antonio) have a scouting department that actually DOES THEIR DAMN JOB and they end up making the right pick.

Would we have been lucky if we tanked 2004 and ended up with Dwight?

Was it lucky that we ended up with Smoove at 17?

Would we have been lucky had we traded down to get Chris Paul?

Was it lucky that we ended up with JJ and he turned out to be more than a #4 option?

Would we have been lucky if we hadn't given Shellhead the promise?

Was it lucky that we ended up with Horford the following year?

Call it what you want, but nobody cares now that JJ, Smoove, and Horf are our core. Had we made those other choices, and been playing in the finals right now, I doubt anyone would have an opinion about luck (except on the New Orleans message boards where they'd be pissed off about Marvin). Moreover, had we just made the right picks, and held onto them like we did these, NOBODY would be badmouthing the NBA draft.

Regardless of what we do from this point on, we have to get out of the mindset that we can't build a team the way other teams have and we've got to STOP worrying about lucky shots, lucky calls, and lucky drafts. We have to, well management has to (lol)... We have to just get out there and make the sh!t happen like everyone else does.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Wretch

[Diesel]

It's like that guy who doesn't come to work on time, surfs the internet all day, doesn't volunteer for assignments, and takes long lunches complaining about people who are butt-kissing, but DOING their job - and getting promoted. I think people are far too concerned with luck (butt-kissing) and might even be calling it something that it isn't.

How can we sit here and talk about luck, when throughout the game there are so many things that people chalk up to "luck." Like the lucky shots at the end of the quarter from nearly half court... Guess what? If they don't get the ball up, the shot doesn't go down. Vince carter hit one of those against us a few seasons ago to win a game, luck? Maybe, but with a smattering of the shot clock left (like what, 7 or so seconds), why didn't we force him to put it on the floor? Don't give him a wide open shot from anywhere.

Same principle with the draft. Before you can have a lucky "pick", you have to be in there the get the damn pick. There is no luck to sucking. I wouldn't classify any of the lottery bound teams lucky. If anything, they are unfortunate (the opposite of luck) to end up with a crappy record. Some teams (San Antonio) have a scouting department that actually DOES THEIR DAMN JOB and they end up making the right pick.

Would we have been lucky if we tanked 2004 and ended up with Dwight?

Was it lucky that we ended up with Smoove at 17?

Would we have been lucky had we traded down to get Chris Paul?

Was it lucky that we ended up with JJ and he turned out to be more than a #4 option?

Would we have been lucky if we hadn't given Shellhead the promise?

Was it lucky that we ended up with Horford the following year?

Call it what you want, but nobody cares now that JJ, Smoove, and Horf are our core. Had we made those other choices, and been playing in the finals right now, I doubt anyone would have an opinion about luck (except on the New Orleans message boards where they'd be pissed off about Marvin). Moreover, had we just made the right picks, and held onto them like we did these, NOBODY would be badmouthing the NBA draft.

Regardless of what we do from this point on, we have to get out of the mindset that we can't build a team the way other teams have and we've got to STOP worrying about lucky shots, lucky calls, and lucky drafts. We have to, well management has to (lol)... We have to just get out there and make the sh!t happen like everyone else does.

There's too much uncertainty in trying to draft for a team.

The best way is through trade.

I think that there are about 3 steps to winning... Here they are:

1. Personnel acquisition -
   
2. Team personality development -
   
3. Tweaking -
   
4. Team Personality redevelopment
   

We have folled these steps.

First with the personnel acquisition. We did this through drafts and trade. From the list of players and our coach, we developed a personality. I would say our personality up until last year was: Young, Athletic, Long, and versatile.

Where many see versatility as a plus, I see it as a minus. (long drawn out discussion there).

Now, we're in the tweaking phase. We're tweaking because we have some pieces that don't work well. We're also at a point where it would be right to change coaches. so it's either LD or new coach.. but the next phase should at last be given 3 yrs for championship.

I think as we move forward, we will see more emphasis placed on skillset and less on versatility. This GM has to notice that there are some skillsets missing on this team. BK never cared about skillsets because his feeling were that the versatility would compensate.

However, you shouldn't want to give up because you're only the 8th best team in the game?

We can tweak to get where we need to go without blowing up the team.