Squawkers Hawksquawk Posted February 7, 2011 Squawkers Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 The calendar says Bibby will be 33 in May, so he’s still a young man in the real world. But in NBA terms, it means Bibby is in the twilight of a distinguished career that is at 1013 games (including playoffs) and counting. The numbers say Bibby’s offensive production and efficiency have fallen off as the season grows longer, even when viewing them in the narrow context of his role as a spot-up shooter. That suggests that Bibby might be wearing down as the season approaches the All-Star break. Even Bibby, not one to usually give much credence to his age as a limiting factor, acknowledges that he doesn’t quite have the same bounce at this time of year as seasons past. “It’s different,” he said. “I can definitely feel . . . I am not going to say I feel my age. Because what I still do out there is I’ve catered myself to the roll of taking care of the team and making sure everybody is doing what they need to be doing and making sure they have fun and do what it takes to win.” View the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 This is really frustrating to me that LD would admit that Bibby is playing tired and getting worn down but that he won't reduce his minutes. He needs to start getting Teague more minutes or find a suitable backup PG that can run the team and let Bibby get some rest. It's bad enough that we're already limited by a 100% healthy Bibby as our PG but being limited by a guy that can't hit open shots and doesn't play defense at all is even worse and unacceptable to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin capstone21 Posted February 8, 2011 Admin Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 This is really frustrating to me that LD would admit that Bibby is playing tired and getting worn down but that he won't reduce his minutes. He needs to start getting Teague more minutes or find a suitable backup PG that can run the team and let Bibby get some rest. It's bad enough that we're already limited by a 100% healthy Bibby as our PG but being limited by a guy that can't hit open shots and doesn't play defense at all is even worse and unacceptable to me. I agree ... Teague needs to play if for anything to give Bibby some more rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) This is really frustrating to me that LD would admit that Bibby is playing tired and getting worn down but that he won't reduce his minutes. He needs to start getting Teague more minutes or find a suitable backup PG that can run the team and let Bibby get some rest. It's bad enough that we're already limited by a 100% healthy Bibby as our PG but being limited by a guy that can't hit open shots and doesn't play defense at all is even worse and unacceptable to me. Hard to disagree here. I don't think Teague is much good, but we just got to get Bibby a rest...along with all the reasons you stated. Teague needs to be getting a few more minutes than he does. No way should this dude be getting all the CD-DNP's he's getting when the man in front of him is Bibby. Because right now, this same old "tired spot-up shooter" with rapidly declining skills and negative defense will be starting, once again, next year for us. Edited February 8, 2011 by TheTruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaceCase Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 This is really frustrating to me that LD would admit that Bibby is playing tired and getting worn down but that he won't reduce his minutes. He needs to start getting Teague more minutes or find a suitable backup PG that can run the team and let Bibby get some rest. It's bad enough that we're already limited by a 100% healthy Bibby as our PG but being limited by a guy that can't hit open shots and doesn't play defense at all is even worse and unacceptable to me. On the contrary, LD has limited Bibby's minutes to 25mpg or under over the past 4 games which is less than his season average of 30mpg. The problem is that Teague is simply not deserving of picking up those extra minutes and LD has spread them around elsewhere. The guy is already trying to make do with what he has and I commend him for realizing that he has to limit Bibby but is also not going to help the team out by just gifting those minutes to Teague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 On the contrary, LD has limited Bibby's minutes to 25mpg or under over the past 4 games which is less than his season average of 30mpg. The problem is that Teague is simply not deserving of picking up those extra minutes and LD has spread them around elsewhere. The guy is already trying to make do with what he has and I commend him for realizing that he has to limit Bibby but is also not going to help the team out by just gifting those minutes to Teague. In LD's words ... “He may be experiencing a little [fatigue],” he said. “I have been watching a lot of film of him earlier in the season versus now, and clearly you can see a difference in how he’s moving. And his legs may be a little tired. It won’t be a situation of me giving up on him or me really cutting his minutes down. If I cut his minutes down, it will only be because of how the game is going, [if] we are in a pretty good rhythm.” He flat out says that he can see a difference in how he's moving but it won't be a situation where he cuts his minutes down because of that, it will only be because of how the game is going. So clearly that should mean that whatever decrease in minutes he's seen lately has been related to how the game is going and not because he's limiting Bibby for his benefit. Teague may not be ready for bigger minutes and if that's the case then he needs to be in Sunds' ear telling him that he needs to find a quality backup PG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Teague is thought of on this board in the same light that Acie and Salim were. Posters clamor for them to get more playing time and chastise the coach for not giving them more playing time. Fact is, they suck and haven't shown any reason to actually play them. The difference being that Teague is younger and less experienced and was actually seen as a guy who would take a couple of years to develop but if he's not playing then he can't develop. On the other hand Acie and Salim were 4 year college players who weren't thought to have much potential for becoming more than they were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin capstone21 Posted February 8, 2011 Admin Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 The difference being that Teague is younger and less experienced and was actually seen as a guy who would take a couple of years to develop but if he's not playing then he can't develop. On the other hand Acie and Salim were 4 year college players who weren't thought to have much potential for becoming more than they were. ...and even if he played 5- 10 minutes, that is 5 - 10 extra minutes rest for Bibby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Teague is thought of on this board in the same light that Acie and Salim were. Posters clamor for them to get more playing time and chastise the coach for not giving them more playing time. Fact is, they suck and haven't shown any reason to actually play them. So Bibby can go 0-6 from the field and allow Baron Davis to hit lay up after lay up or better LD can continually put Mo Evans into the game and he doesn't draw iron and no one blinks an eye but Teague has to be an above average Point guard to get consistent minutes? Once this board has turned on someone, it becomes extreme! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 We need a starting PG, nothing new here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 ...and even if he played 5- 10 minutes, that is 5 - 10 extra minutes rest for Bibby Yep and come playoff time that could be a huge difference both in terms of Bibby's legs as well as Teague's ability to contribute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Teague should get more minutes. Seriously the way Bibby is playing you can't tell me he's better than Teague. The guy can't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot right now, literally doesn't move on defense and looks like he is dragging a ball and chain around his ankles when he brings the ball up, he isn't racking up the assists either. We need to find a way to give Bibby some rest so that he can get his legs back under him, because when he is playing like he did early on in the year he still has value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 The difference being that Teague is younger and less experienced and was actually seen as a guy who would take a couple of years to develop but if he's not playing then he can't develop. On the other hand Acie and Salim were 4 year college players who weren't thought to have much potential for becoming more than they were. Exactly, Acie was supposed to be an immediate impact guy after 4 years of college play... most people thought he would be the starter from day 1 when we drafted him. It was known that Teague would take some time to develop. Sure he has been disappointing but many young PG's struggle early on in their careers... I would like to see Teague get some 20 + minute games more regularly. We either need to find a way to get a rested Bibby in there or see what Teague can give us and hope he starts showing signs of developing, I really don't understand why LD (and Woody before him) is hesitant to do this, there is really nothing to lose except maybe a few meaningless regular season games, because unless we start getting significantly more from our PGs we are doomed to fail in the playoffs once again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tremor Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hoopinion has this interesting article on that matter: Production is in the eye of beholder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hoopinion has this interesting article on that matter: Production is in the eye of beholder Yeah, it's totally something I don't understand. I get that Bibby has intangibles or whatnot, but seriously some nights Bibby just looks like a corpse propped up in a stick out there. If we would play Teague we would be achieving two goals that are pretty essential for us: Resting Bibby + Finding out what Teague can give us in a larger role. With the way things are right now we are not doing either of those things, and it really doesn't make much sense at all. Very Woodson-esque to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaceCase Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 In LD's words ... He flat out says that he can see a difference in how he's moving but it won't be a situation where he cuts his minutes down because of that, it will only be because of how the game is going. So clearly that should mean that whatever decrease in minutes he's seen lately has been related to how the game is going and not because he's limiting Bibby for his benefit. Teague may not be ready for bigger minutes and if that's the case then he needs to be in Sunds' ear telling him that he needs to find a quality backup PG. What he said and what he's doing are clearly two different things. What is it with posters hanging on to every word they want to read in an article? I seriously cannot believe that Bibby was limited in 4 consecutive games after falling off the map the previous few games because it was "the flow of the game." Are they playing cricket or basketball out there? When we don't see Bibby again in the 4th tonight will that be just another independent situation unrelating to any previous circumstance? Without notice, Teague also started off that streak seeing more minutes but with little production then coincidentally saw his time cut in half before finally being DNP-CDed. The game(s) flow just didn't dictate for him to be out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkNJersey Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 What he said and what he's doing are clearly two different things. What is it with posters hanging on to every word they want to read in an article? I seriously cannot believe that Bibby was limited in 4 consecutive games after falling off the map the previous few games because it was "the flow of the game." Are they playing cricket or basketball out there? When we don't see Bibby again in the 4th tonight will that be just another independent situation unrelating to any previous circumstance? Without notice, Teague also started off that streak seeing more minutes but with little production then coincidentally saw his time cut in half before finally being DNP-CDed. The game(s) flow just didn't dictate for him to be out there. Not that you're wrong, but the flow of game has been Bibby getting blown by on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaceCase Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Not that you're wrong, but the flow of game has been Bibby getting blown by on defense. That dates back to Sacramento, what really hurts is when his calming presence is not enough to overcome his usual defensive lapses and his newfound offensive lapses. LaGree points out that Teague has been almost equal to Bibby all season but then admits that Bibby has been terrible so really where's the hope in that analysis? I lost all faith in Teague myself during the Milwaukee game when with all of his physical abilities that the 'Squawk constantly talks about it didn't lead to any defensive difference between him and Bibby against Boykins. "Teague trails Boykins" was Bob's meme for that night and I said to myself, with all things being equal would you prefer the guy that can run the offense and at the minimum be a threat to hit a shot or a guy that just runs? Maybe he just needs more time to develop but I'm just not a fervent believer in giving minutes to guys thinking it will cure all of their ills. Plenty of times, as evidenced by most of our core, just getting minutes breeds complacency and doesn't necessarily work out their kinks. You can see this in JJ's dribbling out clocks, Marvin's disappearances and Josh's Bird imitations but the difference is that those guys are light years ahead of Teague in terms of the impact they bring to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosgrim Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I find this situation to be squarely at the feet of the ASG. They hired a first time coach, with a firable contract. Drew has to manage every game like is the last he'll coach, which means he can't afford to sit any of his best players to get them rested for the playoffs. Bibby is obviously worn down and needs to have his role reduced. I wouldn't mind the Hawks starting Crawford at PG and using Bibby as the primary bench scorer. Try this out before the All-Star break to 1) see if it words, and 2) to just to get Bibby some rest. Obviously, we need a better solution at point, but if that doesn't happen, Crawford probably needs to start and Bibby see less than 20 minutes a game on most nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexmethylphenidate Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) I think Bibby's fine. His three point production and veteran presence help the starting unit. The one that should have their role reduce is Mo Evans. Teague won't be able to get any minutes if Jamal Crawford backs up as the PG and Evans as the SG. I'd say play the second unit as Teague, Jamal, Wilkins/Mo, Marvin, Zaza/Powell. Jamal C is not a PG and most of the time the second unit is ISO heavy or doing nothing while the other team runs the score. Put Teague in there and let him know to run the offense instead of just hand the ball over. Edited February 8, 2011 by Playa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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