Why Kirk Hinrich is a great pickup for the ATL Hawks! even better than Steve Nash!

[JTB]

First off I would like to thank Mike Bibby and Mo Evans for helping our team over the years and getting to the second round of the playoffs but it was time for a change. Now with the trade of getting Kirk Hinrich. This is a great trade but let's compare for those who dont know Hinrich.

Hinrich abilities:

-he plays defense very well (if I had to pick he's a top 5 pg defender in the league)

-can get his team involved (I can damn near gurrantee Hinrich will get back to avg. 6 to10 assist with this core of guys)

-he is a ok penetrator nothing special but he can and will try to penetrate before seattling for a jumpshot

-a pure shooter and can knock the 3 ball down no prob

-knows how to control the ball making good decisions most of the time (surely will be the main ball handler with this hawks unit no doubt)

Bibby abilities:

-a pure shooter as well able to knock down the 3 ball

-horrible defender

-rarely penetrates in his career today

-not one to setup his team

With all that said Hinrich may not be the future but I will say he can be here for another 3 to 4 years he's 29 going on 30. He's no where near washed up yet. The biggest two things that make him better than Bibby is that he will try to penetrate or he will just make good passes in general. 2nd he is like gary patton on defense compared to Bibby! Yes he is that much better on defense than Bibby.

Now to be BOLD

Just to clarify to people before they read this statement I know Steve Nash is a better pg than Hinrich by default. But here's what I have to say when t comes to offense Nash has damn near any PG beat but when it comes to defense Hinrich makes Nash look like "I wish I could". The point is that the Hawks have been struggling with the pg position penetrating and perimeter defense. Hnrich is a OK penetrator and great defender! Hawks kill two birds with one stone with this deal and they add a BIG who finish stronger than any BIG we have besides Horford or Smith. Yeah Hinrich is old we wouldnt be saying that if we had a chance at getting Nash! cause nash is old too people

Edited February 24, 2011 by JTB

[JohnnyCASH]

AGREED I LIKE IT THOUGHT THE 1ST WAS A LIL EXCESSIVE BUT WHO CARES

[Superiorblogman]

Horrible trade. 2 1st rd picks for a serviceable player :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

[Bawse]

Here's to hoping Hinrich rocks the Amare glasses in a Hawks uniform

[BudBall]

Horrible trade. 2 1st rd picks for a serviceable player :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

Its an Upgrade.

[bird_dirt]

Horrible trade. 2 1st rd picks for a serviceable player :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

big deal. craw2 will be lucky to put up childress numbers. he'll be playing in europe in the next 4 or 5 years.

hinrich is better than bibby, mo, craw2 and anyone we would've gotten with our late pick in a weak draft.

we just traded 2 nickles for a dime.

[Plainview1981]

First off I would like to thank Mike Bibby and Mo Evans for helping our team over the years and getting to the second round of the playoffs but it was time for a change. Now with the trade of getting Kirk Hinrich. This is a great trade but let's compare for those who dont know Hinrich.

Hinrich abilities:

-he plays defense very well (if I had to pick he's a top 5 pg defender in the league)

-can get his team involved (I can damn near gurrantee Hinrich will get back to avg. 6 to10 assist with this core of guys)

-he is a ok penetrator nothing special but he can and will try to penetrate before seattling for a jumpshot

-a pure shooter and can knock the 3 ball down no prob

-knows how to control the ball making good decisions most of the time (surely will be the main ball handler with this hawks unit no doubt)

Bibby abilities:

-a pure shooter as well able to knock down the 3 ball

-horrible defender

-rarely penetrates in his career today

-not one to setup his team

With all that said Hinrich may not be the future but I will say he can be here for another 3 to 4 years he's 29 going on 30. He's no where near washed up yet. The biggest two things that make him better than Bibby is that he will try to penetrate or he will just make good passes in general. 2nd he is like gary patton on defense compared to Bibby! Yes he is that much better on defense than Bibby.

Now to be BOLD

Just to clarify to people before they read this statement I know Steve Nash is a better pg than Hinrich by default. But here's what I have to say when t comes to offense Nash has damn near any PG beat but when it comes to defense Hinrich makes Nash look like "I wish I could". The point is that the Hawks have been struggling with the pg position penetrating and perimeter defense. Hnrich is a OK penetrator and great defender! Hawks kill two birds with one stone with this deal and they add a BIG who finish stronger than any BIG we have besides Horford or Smith. Yeah Hinrich is old we wouldnt be saying that if we had a chance at getting Nash! cause nash is old too people

Puff puff puff

Hey, can I have a hit of that?

[Wretch]

Well.......my $0.02

Giving up a 1st? Pfft. I'm not sure we could do anything with it. In the eons that I have watched this club with more mid/late 1sts than I care to remember - we landed one real player. Josh Smith, and we were LUCKY that pre-draft negativity about his attitude forced him out of the lottery because he should have went top 10 where he was projected.

Giving up JC2? We'll see. I really don't have an opinion on this. On one hand, I really hate to see him go without some good burn. On the other, is he really going to blossom into the next "OMG I can't believe we got him with that pick!!!!"

???

Jury's out, but man...changes had to be made. We got a *SOLID* vet and a BU center for Bibby and JC2 (I could give a sh!t less about the 1st). I am glad though, that we kept Teague (Yeah, well shoot me. I like the kid.). I just hope that we give him some burn before we jettison him as well.

Trading Bibby? :sad: (...)

All in all, it's a start. Hinrich is another player flying under the radar. I like him and I've always had an appreciation for his game. He'll be a good fit. More importantly, watching the guys tonight in Phoenix...I know they're sucking, but you can see that the trade has affected them. Bibby helped lift this team from out of the cellar. Helped tap into the potential. It's affecting these guys - which is good. They understand the implications of the trade and it shows. We're missing some wide open shots and some bunnies, but I see a sense of urgency. They're trying.

Time to move forward people. Welcome Captain Kirk!

[thecampster]

First off I would like to thank Mike Bibby and Mo Evans for helping our team over the years and getting to the second round of the playoffs but it was time for a change. Now with the trade of getting Kirk Hinrich. This is a great trade but let's compare for those who dont know Hinrich.

Hinrich abilities:

-he plays defense very well (if I had to pick he's a top 5 pg defender in the league)

-can get his team involved (I can damn near gurrantee Hinrich will get back to avg. 6 to10 assist with this core of guys)

-he is a ok penetrator nothing special but he can and will try to penetrate before seattling for a jumpshot

-a pure shooter and can knock the 3 ball down no prob

-knows how to control the ball making good decisions most of the time (surely will be the main ball handler with this hawks unit no doubt)

Bibby abilities:

-a pure shooter as well able to knock down the 3 ball

-horrible defender

-rarely penetrates in his career today

-not one to setup his team

With all that said Hinrich may not be the future but I will say he can be here for another 3 to 4 years he's 29 going on 30. He's no where near washed up yet. The biggest two things that make him better than Bibby is that he will try to penetrate or he will just make good passes in general. 2nd he is like gary patton on defense compared to Bibby! Yes he is that much better on defense than Bibby.

Now to be BOLD

Just to clarify to people before they read this statement I know Steve Nash is a better pg than Hinrich by default. But here's what I have to say when t comes to offense Nash has damn near any PG beat but when it comes to defense Hinrich makes Nash look like "I wish I could". The point is that the Hawks have been struggling with the pg position penetrating and perimeter defense. Hnrich is a OK penetrator and great defender! Hawks kill two birds with one stone with this deal and they add a BIG who finish stronger than any BIG we have besides Horford or Smith. Yeah Hinrich is old we wouldnt be saying that if we had a chance at getting Nash! cause nash is old too people

honestly, anyone who is dissing this trade has never seen Hinrich play. He is an all-around player and not a one trick pony. We didn't need an offensive star...we score plenty...we needed someone to stop the other team's point.

[JTB]

honestly, anyone who is dissing this trade has never seen Hinrich play. He is an all-around player and not a one trick pony. We didn't need an offensive star...we score plenty...we needed someone to stop the other team's point.

exactly my friend....exactly

[QuantumHawkz]

Bravo! Good post JTB, had to give you a +1 on that one.

[Superiorblogman]

honestly, anyone who is dissing this trade has never seen Hinrich play. He is an all-around player and not a one trick pony. We didn't need an offensive star...we score plenty...we needed someone to stop the other team's point.

Honestly, incompetent beings are allowed to run things in the world because people except anything. This deal is all wrong and I will not accept it. You gave up 2 much and got the worse of anyone making trades. Once again, ATL finishes last in the front office race. How much longer before that translates onto the court? Not long because the foundation is being built in the front office.

[sillent]

Honestly, incompetent beings are allowed to run things in the world because people except anything. This deal is all wrong and I will not accept it. You gave up 2 much and got the worse of anyone making trades. Once again, ATL finishes last in the front office race. How much longer before that translates onto the court? Not long because the foundation is being built in the front office.

You trade not because someone is your favorite player but to improve the team. Our team clearly lacked perimeter defense as well as another defensive inside presence. We got rid of a duplicate JC2 which might make Jamal feel like he has a home to stay and play like it. We got rid of our weakest defensive presence(Bibby) and gained a pretty good defender and floor general(Capt. Kirk). Damien is more defensive minded than Mo and needs more playing time. Hilton believe it or not is a big man who can at least block shots and hopefully inspire Josh & comp. to get back aggressive on defense. Will our first round draft pick really be worth that much and do we need to add more youth at this point in time if they can't jump straight out of the gate?

Most realize by now that the Hawks are a little too non chalant at times. Bibby our past floor general was one to lighten the bunch up and keep them joking and having fun. There is nothing wrong with fun but our Hawks team needs to get serious and grow up. Drew is trying to enforce that but that does not compare to having a general on the floor who can actually put it to action. Let's see if Kirk's work ethic and serious approach to the game can help revive our team. Let's see if our team can help resurrect Hilton Armstrong's career(I know we heard that before see Randolph Morris). We desperately needed a big man that can be a tough inside presence and aid our all star bigs on defense. Hilton may or may not be a fit but it is definitely worth the risk.

All in all we got two pieces that we desperately needed and though they may not have been the perfect candidate they fit the bill. We also gained by getting rid of one of our biggest weaknesses so it should be harder for scouts to key in on us. We created bonuses for ourselves by forcing more playing time for Teague (since Jamal and Hinrich can be used as combo guards). Who knows we might find a use/need for our forgotten draft pick (Pape Sy).

The only real negative I can see to this trade is a chemistry factor because our players grew together as a family. Hopefully this works in our favor and helps us grow up and understand that this is a business and should be handled that way on the court.

[Superiorblogman]

You trade not because someone is your favorite player but to improve the team. Our team clearly lacked perimeter defense as well as another defensive inside presence. We got rid of a duplicate JC2 which might make Jamal feel like he has a home to stay and play like it. We got rid of our weakest defensive presence(Bibby) and gained a pretty good defender and floor general(Capt. Kirk). Damien is more defensive minded than Mo and needs more playing time. Hilton believe it or not is a big man who can at least block shots and hopefully inspire Josh & comp. to get back aggressive on defense. Will our first round draft pick really be worth that much and do we need to add more youth at this point in time if they can't jump straight out of the gate?

Most realize by now that the Hawks are a little too non chalant at times. Bibby our past floor general was one to lighten the bunch up and keep them joking and having fun. There is nothing wrong with fun but our Hawks team needs to get serious and grow up. Drew is trying to enforce that but that does not compare to having a general on the floor who can actually put it to action. Let's see if Kirk's work ethic and serious approach to the game can help revive our team. Let's see if our team can help resurrect Hilton Armstrong's career(I know we heard that before see Randolph Morris). We desperately needed a big man that can be a tough inside presence and aid our all star bigs on defense. Hilton may or may not be a fit but it is definitely worth the risk.

All in all we got two pieces that we desperately needed and though they may not have been the perfect candidate they fit the bill. We also gained by getting rid of one of our biggest weaknesses so it should be harder for scouts to key in on us. We created bonuses for ourselves by forcing more playing time for Teague (since Jamal and Hinrich can be used as combo guards). Who knows we might find a use/need for our forgotten draft pick (Pape Sy).

The only real negative I can see to this trade is a chemistry factor because our players grew together as a family. Hopefully this works in our favor and helps us grow up and understand that this is a business and should be handled that way on the court.

I still can't see a real positive. This is a lateral move with the potential to be downhill or backwards.

[benhillboy]

I have a couple Chicago friends who consider Hinrich "straight garbage," which is understandable when compared to the Point they have now, although I kinda liked their small backcourt of Gordon and Hinrich. As far as giving up Crawford and the pick, we all know this franchise isn't good enough at scouting so I could care less. The two nickels for a dime quote seems appropriate. Mo is gone so thats addition by subtraction. He's a dog. If Hinrich plays staunch, hellish defense like I know he can, and knock down an open 15 footer consistently and drive the rack at even an average rate, I'm with it. I guess a Felton or Harris is still out of reach for us, so I welcome Hinrich.

Edited February 24, 2011 by benhillboy

[thecampster]

I still can't see a real positive. This is a lateral move with the potential to be downhill or backwards.

This year's PER in similar minutes.

Hinrigh 13.72

Bibby 11.52

Offensively, Hinrich was a 2.2 better PER player. Now consider he was playing out of position and shooting a lower 3 PT %.

Combine that with the defensive improvement and it's not unreasonable to make the deal. This is not a lateral move. This is a vast improvement at the SG position in defense and according to the PER...a 15-20% improvement in the player on offense.

Something you may not be considering. Bibby was only going to get older and slower next year and was stuck under contract with the team for one more year.

Hinrich's deal gets smaller next year, not bigger.

[thecampster]

I still can't see a real positive. This is a lateral move with the potential to be downhill or backwards.

One more thought on this. A first round...22-25 pick next year would cost about 1.5 - 2 million against the cap. A vet minimum 5 year player about 1 million. This deal (although only slightly) increases the chances of bringing back Jamal. Being forced to take a draft pick (and the lower we would have fallen, the higher the pick), could cause negative cap karma in future years. The higher the first round pick, the higher the cap hit.

AH might be the better one to speak on this but I believe the breakout was pick 27 where you start to see a cap benefit to take a vet minimum player over a rookie for Luxury Tax threshold teams.

Last year, Jordon Crawford at 27 was slotted at just over 1 million. The number 22 pick 1.254 million.

By contrast, Delonte West is making 500K

Edited February 24, 2011 by thecampster

[Jeffery123]

Here we go again! Hawks management making yet another bad decision. I have seen Hinrich at Chicago and after he was traded from there and he was not the same player after the trade. I consider this trade not an upgrade at all. We gave up on a young shooter, and a veteran guard and a 1st round pick for another aging veteran? Where is the upgrade? This was supposed to take us to the next level????

Hinrich (2010-2011 stats)

PPG 11.1

RPG 2.7

APG 4.4

SPG 1.2

BPG 0.2

FG% 0.452

FT% 0.876

3P% 0.384

MPG 30.6

Bibby (2010-2011 stats)

PPG 9.4

RPG 2.6

APG 3.6

SPG 0.7

BPG 0.1

FG% 0.435

FT% 0.630

3P% 0.441

MPG 29.9

I am hoping beyond hope that we are not done dealing, otherwise I look forward to yet another early exit from the playoffs for this "core" team.

[benhillboy]

Here we go again! Hawks management making yet another bad decision. I have seen Hinrich at Chicago and after he was traded from there and he was not the same player after the trade. I consider this trade not an upgrade at all. We gave up on a young shooter, and a veteran guard and a 1st round pick for another aging veteran? Where is the upgrade? This was supposed to take us to the next level????

Hinrich (2010-2011 stats)

PPG 11.1

RPG 2.7

APG 4.4

SPG 1.2

BPG 0.2

FG% 0.452

FT% 0.876

3P% 0.384

MPG 30.6

Bibby (2010-2011 stats)

PPG 9.4

RPG 2.6

APG 3.6

SPG 0.7

BPG 0.1

FG% 0.435

FT% 0.630

3P% 0.441

MPG 29.9

I am hoping beyond hope that we are not done dealing, otherwise I look forward to yet another early exit from the playoffs for this "core" team.

I'm looking at the numbers. I must be missing something. All of Hinrichs numbers are superior except 3 point shooting percentage, which is damn good. How is he not an upgrade? I even feel a little better knowing he gets a steal a game and hits 9 out of ten from the stripe and seems to be coachable. I'm looking forward to seeing how he meshes. I hope he's smart and outspoken enough to kill this outside shooting from Josh and put him in positions to receive the ball near the rim and not taking the open outside shot which is EXACTLY WHAT THE OTHER TEAM WANTS!!!!!

Edited February 24, 2011 by benhillboy

[thecampster]

I'm looking at the numbers. I must be missing something. All of Hinrichs numbers are superior except 3 point shooting percentage, which is damn good. How is he not an upgrade? I even feel a little better knowing he gets a steal a game and hits 9 out of ten from the stripe and seems to be coachable. I'm looking forward to seeing how he meshes. I hope he's smart and outspoken enough to kill this outside shooting from Josh and put him in positions to receive the ball near the rim and not taking the open outside shot which is EXACTLY WHAT THE OTHER TEAM WANTS!!!!!

Everything you need to know about Kirk Hinrich you can get from looking at Ben Gordon.

Ben Gordon in Chicago shot 45.5, 43.4, 45.5 his last 3 years playing with Kirk and averaged 21.4, 18.6, 20.7 ppg. He went to detroit the next year and has dropped to 13.8 and 12.7 points per game the last 2 years and shot 41.6 and 44.3 % in 6-7 less minutes a game. His assist numbers have dropped from 3.6, 3.0 and 3.4 to 2.2 this year as have his FT attempts and other vital stats. His 3 point % dropped dramatically (due to having to create his own 3 point shot).

Kirk makes those around him better.