Can we all agree on at least one thing!

[Wurider05]

Either Josh or Al has to be traded. Forget the stuff abut Marvin, JJ, Jamal and Teague. Can we agree that this is where things need to start? They both have their positives and negatives. Personally I trust Horford more but they both seem to like jumpers a little too much for my liking. Before any discussion about role players and bench this needs to be dealt with first.

[99PROBL3MS]

I think if Smoove spends this summer with a world-class fitness trainer and hires a nutritionist instead of that "Chef Jeff" he could play more minutes at SF. He has to get in shape though. Having them both is part of our dynamic.

Edited May 15, 2011 by 99PROBL3MS

[Randy]

After this last series I'm starting to think that with only a few exceptions (Orland0 and ?) Al may be better at center after all. So, unless you could nab a bigger center I wouldn't jump to make a deal. I don't like the idea of playing Josh at SF, since that will only reinforce his bad ideas.

[DJlaysitup]

Either Josh or Al has to be traded.

OK Wur...we have a hole at center and now you want to create a hole at either PF or SF?

What are you thinking? AL Horford is our PF...Josh Smith is our SF..why create another hole in our line-up? :magnifier: silly.

Edited May 15, 2011 by DJlaysitup

[DJlaysitup]

After this last series I'm starting to think that with only a few exceptions (Orland0 and ?) Al may be better at center after all.

OK Randy - you are being silly too.

You want a 6-9 1/2 guy who has had trouble holding his own against quality PFs defensively to be your Center? again - when it didn't work before? :no-no:

Edited May 15, 2011 by DJlaysitup

[Wurider05]

I think if Smoove spends this summer with a world-class fitness trainer and hires a nutritionist instead of that "Chef Jeff" he could play more minutes at SF. He has to get in shape though. Having them both is part of our dynamic.

Dude we are past the "what if" debates. Smoove is what he is. Al is what he is. JJ is what he is. Marvin is what he is. I don't think that this is a silly idea. It depends on what you get in the trade. We need a good offensive post player. This is the key. We need someone that owns the paint offensively. That can be a SF, PF or a center it doesn't matter. We have too many jumpshooters on the team. Jason Collins sucks big time but that big lineup is good because there is one less jumpshooter in the starting lineup. Just imagine if we had a front court player with a great post game.

A jumpshooting team can not bring a consistent effort. Our two best players Jamal and JJ are streaky. If Jamal Crawford isn't scoring he is worthless. Hell even Marvin brings D when his shot (which seems to be most of the time) isn't falling. Players need to know their roles. Noah wasn't hanging out on the perimeter chucking jumpers. Our players don't complement each other well because everyone is a damn jumpshooter and soft as hell. That pretty boy basketball will never cut it in the playoffs.

You all laughed at me when erly in the season, I suggested that we should look into trading Smoove for Zach Randolph a consistent offensive post player. You all talked about how awful he was on offensive and the Smoove was some kind of defensive wizard. Yeah right!! A better talent is always trumped by a better fit when a team has a unified direction. LD and Sund are going to have to sit down and think about what exactly they want this team to be. We have no identity other than hoping our jumpers fall. We are an above average defensive team but we need to establish who we are and how we want to play, and who will or can fit in with the direction we want to go in. To hell with another year of wondering if Josh will finally get it or if MArv will step up, or will Horf give you 20 and 10. We need to move beyond that bush league level of thinking.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Wurider05

[HawksFan87]

Uhmm NO...

[Jody23]

Either Josh or Al has to be traded. Forget the stuff abut Marvin, JJ, Jamal and Teague. Can we agree that this is where things need to start? They both have their positives and negatives. Personally I trust Horford more but they both seem to like jumpers a little too much for my liking. Before any discussion about role players and bench this needs to be dealt with first.

I have to agree with you to an extent. A decision on these two and where they will play has to be made. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different result. It's been shown repeatedly that playing them together at the 4 and 5 does not work in the playoffs against the elite teams. I also agree they both have positive and negatives, but I think building with Horford is easier because he is more of 4. People complain about his desire to play there, but imho, a guy who's made two all-star appearances in the league and has won two national titles before that and was the main catalyst for this franchise ending it's playoff drought has EARNED the right to speak his mind and he happens to be right. The Hawks need more size.

However, I think it's also important to either move Marvin or relegate him to a bench roll and to find another player other than JJ who the team will respect and look to as a leader.

[OldTimeHawk]

You guys ever played with a guy that thought he was bigger than the team ? Theres no frustration to playing with a guy like that , or something that will kill team chemistry than that , especially a talented guy that just doesnt get it. I take the coachable guy every time.

[mrhonline]

No, I don't agree. Sorry.

[NekiEcko]

No, I don't agree. Sorry.

Can you tell us your reason why about that? Because i think we will never get close to the ECF if we cant make a move. JJ contract sucks, so nobody is going to pick that one up, Marvin wont yield anything, Teague might get some but too unknown.

For me, the question beckons, Can you see this roster goes to ECF or even winning the NBA Finals, as it is right now? My answer is Heck No! Something has to give.

[sasuke]

If we can make them fn run with a new coach there will be no problem with them @ the front court. The problem with them is playing in the "choke & duck" offense. Just run.

[Jody23]

If we can make them fn run with a new coach there will be no problem with them @ the front court. The problem with them is playing in the "choke & duck" offense. Just run.

You have to rebound to run and the duo has shown that they struggle to do that in the playoffs at the 4 and 5. Also, in the playoffs, the game slows down. You can just rely on run and gun. You have to be able to score in the half court and in the post. The front court as it's currently constructed can't get it done.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

PG Teague

SG

SF Josh Smith

PF Al

Fill in the blanks by trading JJ and Marvin along with anyone on the team not named Teague, Josh Smith, or Al Horford.

I guess I am trying to say Josh is not the Crips and Al is not the Bloods you don't have to choose a side. Or would you like me to use God and the Devil in that analogy?

[mrhonline]

Can you tell us your reason why about that?

I can give several, but they'd be presumptive. We're gonna all have to wait on the new labor agreement before we start guessing about the Hawks' roster moves.

[Diesel]

I say you exhaust measures to move Marvin and Hinrich before considering letting Smoove or Horf go in trade.

I'm up for trying to make Josh at Sf work.

Bring In Dalembert... and give it a try.

[sasuke]

You have to rebound to run and the duo has shown that they struggle to do that in the playoffs at the 4 and 5. Also, in the playoffs, the game slows down. You can just rely on run and gun. You have to be able to score in the half court and in the post. The front court as it's currently constructed can't get it done.

They are proven good rebounders that happened to struggle in the 2nd round. Part of their struggle is setting for outside shooting, which leaves them in bad positions for offensive rebounds. If they increment their chances of scoring by outrunning their man there will be no need for offensive rebound or at least try to score in the paint to be in better position for offensive rebounds. By doing all this they can draw fouls out of their bigs & keep them out of the game for more time which means less rebounds for the opposing team.

[Jody23]

They are proven good rebounders that happened to struggle in the 2nd round. Part of their struggle is setting for outside shooting, which leaves them in bad positions for offensive rebounds. If they increment their chances of scoring by outrunning their man there will be no need for offensive rebound or at least try to score in the paint to be in better position for offensive rebounds. By doing all this they can draw fouls out of their bigs & keep them out of the game for more time which means less rebounds for the opposing team.

They didn't just happen to struggle, they got totally exposed and the only time they performed somewhat better on the boards is when they played at the 3 and 4, not 4 and 5. Also, it's been shown repeatedly that relying heavily on trying to outrun your opponent, especially in the playoffs, doesn't work. In addition, the Hawks need to bring in someone who has the ability to score in the paint because neither Smoove or Al are that good at scoring in the post.

[macdaddy]

I thought the one thing that was obvious from the Bulls series is that JJ isn't fitting on this team. There were a few games in the playoffs where he made quick moves and would pass the ball and we looked unstoppable. But when the going got tough he resorted to dribbling for 15 seconds and making poor decisions. Either he buys into what we are doing, which means he doesn't get to hold the ball all game, or he needs to go. Its not like he had a stellar season and just flopped in the playoffs. I think he doesn't want to not be the focal point of the offense.

[Guest]

The idea of JJ not fitting in and having an issue with not being the focal point is laughable. When things got tough the team as a whole reverted to "Woody" ball. It wasn't just Joe pounding the ball, it was no other player movement as well. When Joe gets doubled or sees the double coming he needs to make a quicker pass, Ive said it time and time again, but that is also contingent on his teammates moving when he gets doubled or make themselves available to get the pass.