Just when I thought the trade for Hinrich couldn't get any worse.....

[hawkman]

^^^You do know Kemba Walker was one of the leading scorers in the NCAA during the regular season don't you? He actually kinda stepped 'down' during the tournament. I still hate giving up JC2 and a 1st rounder though, even if this is one of the weaker dafts. I also have to disagree that we've drafted badly under Sund. His talent scouts found Teague, JC2, and Pape Sy. All of those guys were great value for where they were picked.

[MaceCase]

^^^You do know Kemba Walker was one of the leading scorers in the NCAA during the regular season don't you? He actually kinda stepped 'down' during the tournament. I still hate giving up JC2 and a 1st rounder though, even if this is one of the weaker dafts. I also have to disagree that we've drafted badly under Sund. His talent scouts found Teague, JC2, and Pape Sy. All of those guys were great value for where they were picked.

Kemba blew up from the Maui Invitational and supposedly has measured out at 6'1" in shoes which kills all the the thoughts of him being a midget scoring guard.

[Sothron]

Damn you Bob Sura....

Yep. He wanted to look good for more free agent dollars and the Hawks let him do it while other teams laughed all the way to more balls for the lottery. I remember the idiots either here or at realgm that were getting over me because myself and a few others knew that losing then for a chance at a superstar was worth the price.

[hawkman]

Kemba blew up from the Maui Invitational and supposedly has measured out at 6'1" in shoes which kills all the the thoughts of him being a midget scoring guard.

Yep, and that's why he's movig up most mock drafts right now. I know this is a supposedly weak draft class. But there's value there. Guys like Derrick Williams, Kemba, and even a later pick like Marshon Brooks will be able to come in and contribute in the NBA. Heck, even an Iman Shumpert could go undrafted and end up a player in this league. That's why you don't trade 1st rounders like they're nothing. It should've either been JC2 or the 1st rounder, not both. Why give up so much? :scratchhead:

[lethalweapon3]

Once again, the final tally:

Bibby & Mo for Hinrich

HWNSNBM & a 1st Rounder for Hilton Armstrong

~lw3

[Admin]

Yep, and that's why he's movig up most mock drafts right now. I know this is a supposedly weak draft class. But there's value there. Guys like Derrick Williams, Kemba, and even a later pick like Marshon Brooks will be able to come in and contribute in the NBA. Heck, even an Iman Shumpert could go undrafted and end up a player in this league. That's why you don't trade 1st rounders like they're nothing. It should've either been JC2 or the 1st rounder, not both. Why give up so much? :scratchhead:

Probably because that was the cost and the Lakers were also trying hard to acquire Hinrich. It's not like he was a player they were out there shopping as they loved him and were only going to move him if it helped them in the future. Had Hinrich been healthy for the Bulls series it may have turned out differently for us and looking back I'm very happy that they made the trade since we were dead in the water with Bibby.

[coachx]

Wow..........we would have ended up with the 18th pick this year.

That is a pretty decent pick...............I was thinking we would end up with later pick (23 - 26) due to the Hawks playoff performance but it apparently does not work out that way in hte NBA. The NFL equates teams playoff perfromace into the final draft spots but the NBA seems to go by regular season results if this link is true:

Pick #48 here we come !

Edited May 20, 2011 by coachx

[hawkman]

Probably because that was the cost and the Lakers were also trying hard to acquire Hinrich. It's not like he was a player they were out there shopping as they loved him and were only going to move him if it helped them in the future. Had Hinrich been healthy for the Bulls series it may have turned out differently for us and looking back I'm very happy that they made the trade since we were dead in the water with Bibby.

Yeah, I can agree with that. I guess the fact we didn't have Hinrich for the second round kinda makes the deal sting a bit more for me. Then Teague's play in the second round makes the deal sting that much more. We were indeed dead in the water with Bibby and something HAD to be done at the time. It sure would've been nice if Teague had emerged as a bonafied starter during the regular season, but of course playing time had a lot to do with that. If we could ever get the 'win now to player development ratio' right, this could be a very deep, talented team. But I know hindsight is 20/20 when it comes to these things.

Edited May 20, 2011 by hawkman

[coachx]

Yeah, I can agree with that. I guess the fact we didn't have Hinrich for the second round kinda makes the deal sting a bit more for me. Then Teague's play in the second round makes the deal sting that much more. We were indeed dead in the water with Bibby and something HAD to be done at the time. It sure would've been nice if Teague had emerged as a bonafied starter during the regular season, but of course playing time had a lot to do with that. If we could ever get the 'win now to player development ratio' right, this could be a very deep, talented team. But I know hindsight is 20/20 when it comes to these things.

Its all perspective.

Bibby is still healthy and playing when Hinrich got hurt..

In reality you could say b/c of the Bibby trade Teague finally got his chance since Hinrich got injured and Bibby did not.

[NineOhTheRino]

The Hawks traded a 1st round pick and a good bench player for a jump shooter. That's all he is. Yes that right! He's not a good passer, he doesn't drive to the rim, and he's nothing special on defense. Hawks made a trade for the sake of making a trade and screwed themselves in the end.

[AHF]

Once again, the final tally:

Bibby & Mo for Hinrich

HWNSNBM & a 1st Rounder for Hilton Armstrong

~lw3

We had to pay them to get Hinrich.

We had to pay them to take Bibby.

That is why Bibby + Mo for Hinrich is a very, very inaccurate way of looking at how the value flowed in the trade.

[MaceCase]

Can't really debate Hinrich's value to us though as part of the trade. He was excellent in the Orlando series shooting the ball and forcing turnovers on Dwight and our presence in the 2nd round could have been in doubt if he didn't give up his body for that layup in game 6.

[NineOhTheRino]

Can't really debate Hinrich's value to us though as part of the trade. He was excellent in the Orlando series shooting the ball and forcing turnovers on Dwight and our presence in the 2nd round could have been in doubt if he didn't give up his body for that layup in game 6.

What exactly is his value? Judging from what Teague gave the team in the Bulls series I'm sure the hawks would have gotten past the Magic had he got Kirk's minutes.

Edited May 20, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[Crank]

What exactly is his value? Judging from what Teague gave the team in the Bulls series I'm sure the hawks would have gotten past the Magic had he got Kirk's minutes.

based on what ?

[lethalweapon3]

We had to pay them to get Hinrich.

We had to pay them to take Bibby.

That is why Bibby + Mo for Hinrich is a very, very inaccurate way of looking at how the value flowed in the trade.

We paid them with Mo.

What did we have to pay them to get Motel6? Or, did we pay by taking HA off their hands?

~lw3

[coachx]

What exactly is his value? Judging from what Teague gave the team in the Bulls series I'm sure the hawks would have gotten past the Magic had he got Kirk's minutes.

Dwight Howard may have scared Teague out of the paint and made him less aggressive....you never know. He has been known to influence many a shot.

The timing and place was just right when Teague did get his chance.....that is all we can really say with certainty.

Edited May 20, 2011 by coachx

[Seano]

Wow..........we would have ended up with the 18th pick this year.

That is a pretty decent pick...............I was thinking we would end up with later pick (23 - 26) due to the Hawks playoff performance but it apparently does not work out that way in hte NBA. The NFL equates teams playoff perfromace into the final draft spots but the NBA seems to go by regular season results if this link is true:

Pick #48 here we come !

Yeah. 'Weak' draft or not, I never like it when we trade away first round picks. This draft may be weak at the top with a lack of star power and no defined alpha dog stud to rule all draft prospects, but that doesn't mean there aren't any players in this draft, because of course there are players who will be drafted and will make productive NBA players of themselves, and with that 18th pick we might/could have been looking at someone like Klay Thompson. A player like that has got warts (busted for weed possession back in March), but he's the best sharpshooter in this draft with the exception of Fredette, his basketball IQ is rated as being off the charts, and he's the son of former #1 overall pick Mychal Thompson. He's just one example though, because there will be other players when that 18th pick rolls around that we could be thinking..."Wow, it'd be kind of nice to get this guy". We've done pretty well with picks lately, so in my opinion they're more valuable to us now when they were under the BK regime, because back then it was like the guy was throwing fricken darts at a board while wearing a blindfold.

So I hated the fact that we gave up that pick, but that was apparently the price we had to pay. It was either that or stand pat and do nothing at all in order to try and improve for the playoff run, and my morale and I think the morale of most Hawks fans would have been terrible had we just stood pat, because we were struggling badly then and looked to be spinning our wheels while going absolutely nowhere. And Hinrich's positive effect on our overall team defense was highly noticeable, not to mention I think he makes a heck of a mentor for young Teague, even better than Bibb's did, because Hinrich's got that kind of bulldog defensive mentality to show the kid.

[AHF]

We paid them with Mo.

What did we have to pay them to get Motel6? Or, did we pay by taking HA off their hands?

~lw3

MO???

They would neither have done Hinrich for Mo nor Bibby and Mo for nothing.

Hinrich was a player teams would have to pay to get. A team like the Lakers would definitely have given up picks for him.

Nobody was going to give anything for Mo. Armstrong was salary filler.

The biggest shame is that we didn't give Teague consistent minutes when we had Bibby so we could have seen what we had on our hands as he developed throughout the season.

[MaceCase]

What exactly is his value? Judging from what Teague gave the team in the Bulls series I'm sure the hawks would have gotten past the Magic had he got Kirk's minutes.

What Teague gave us was plenty of layups but Smoovesque outside shooting and against Orlando where we were forced to play Collins no matter what that wouldn't have worked against Dwight who makes a living out of single handedly shutting off the paint. Kirk spreads the floor just as well as Bibby while giving the extra benefit of a guy who can actually defend in addition to running an offense rather than just being able to find his own shot. Let's not overrate Teague's 2nd round here because all he did on offense was score well and efficiently in the paint while Joe was forced to be the primary facilitator and only shooter in most of those lineups.

[lethalweapon3]

MO???

They would neither have done Hinrich for Mo nor Bibby and Mo for nothing.

Hinrich was a player teams would have to pay to get. A team like the Lakers would definitely have given up picks for him.

Nobody was going to give anything for Mo. Armstrong was salary filler.

The biggest shame is that we didn't give Teague consistent minutes when we had Bibby so we could have seen what we had on our hands as he developed throughout the season.

Mo was the salary filler. (Bibby+Mo=Hinrich) But we'll agree to disagree.

~lw3