Why is Horford untouchable?

[Johnnybravo4]

Everytime i see a trade thread it almost always involves our most marketable and exciting player, Josh Smith. No one ever talks about Horford in potential trade. Why not? Because he's solid? Solid is fine, but we need spectacular. Horford reminds me of Shareef. He puts up solid numbers and is a good guy, but has never done anything of substance that I can remember. He's mechanical offensively and is only decent defensively. I've seen Smoove take over games dozens of times, I can't recall Horford ever "dominating" a game. Horford is a Udonis Haslem type of player. He'll be great for a team that has superstars, but he is not one. Never will be.

Trading Josh would be doing just what every Atlanta franchise has done since time in memoriam, trade our exciting player for some "white bread" not exciting "solid" "team player". And we will fail to draw 15k per game.

[coachx]

His BYC status really shrinks the pool of possible players we could get for Horford since we can only bring back half of salary for next season in any trade.

I assume you know this but you failed to mention it................so maybe you don't know it since its kind of the main item about this topic that deserves a mention.

Edited June 20, 2011 by coachx

[macdaddy]

Everytime i see a trade thread it almost always involves our most marketable and exciting player, Josh Smith. No one ever talks about Horford in potential trade. Why not? Because he's solid? Solid is fine, but we need spectacular. Horford reminds me of Shareef. He puts up solid numbers and is a good guy, but has never done anything of substance that I can remember. He's mechanical offensively and is only decent defensively. I've seen Smoove take over games dozens of times, I can't recall Horford ever "dominating" a game. Horford is a Udonis Haslem type of player. He'll be great for a team that has superstars, but he is not one. Never will be.

Trading Josh would be doing just what every Atlanta franchise has done since time in memoriam, trade our exciting player for some "white bread" not exciting "solid" "team player". And we will fail to draw 15k per game.

I agree with some of what you are saying but Horford is a much better player than Haslem. I think Horford is still figuring out his game. Plus, it seems like his dad is in his ear about being a PF which i think is a mistake. Once Horford puts together a way to be a physical rebounder and a pop up jump shooter he should be real dangerous. I think of him more as a Bill Laimbeer without the stupid face (just kidding Bill!).

I agree with your sentiment though. This team needs some buzz.

[coachx]

I think of him more as a Bill Laimbeer without the stupid face (just kidding Bill!).

I agree with your sentiment though. This team needs some buzz.

They are both good jump shooters but that is the only similarity I can see but Bill's range extended out to 3.

[macdaddy]

They are both good jump shooters but that is the only similarity I can see but Bill's range extended out to 3.

I should have stated that differently. I hope he could become a Laimbeer type. He's developed the shot but needs to get more physical.

[hawkman]

Horford is NOT untouchable. The Hawks should be willing to trade any player on this roster if it makes the team better.

[MaceCase]

Contract status and then also why should the least tenured Hawk yet alone NBA player outside of Teague on the roster be shipped off so soon? If people can say that Joe just needs better players around him for him to be better, Marvin still has potential and Josh will someday get it then how come Horf can't even get to play past his rookie deal with the Hawks?

[Wretch]

Horford is not untouchable. He's still coming into his own though, so writing his ceiling off now is premature. Of all the players we have, I think he has the highest trade value and could get us the kind of player we need in return. So, personally...in no way am I against trading him.

On the other hand, Josh Smith does not take over games. At least not offensively. With an average to above average defender on him, that isn't giving away height/weight/athleticism, Smoove is unable to take a guy off the dribble or shoot a consistent outside shot (and he has a hard enough time hitting wide open shots). Where he does excel is as a synergy type of player. With a good PG and the right tempo, Josh is a dangerous player. Though, it's a wash when you consider that Horford excels when he goes inside and out - moreover, as a league leader in FG% Horford has the stats to back it up.

What escapes me though is why people can't see what makes Smoove so valuable to the franchise - it even seems like Smoove doesn't understand it either. There was a time when I could not tell you who's team this was - and this was when JJ was RED HOT. Josh Smith is a *PHENOM* at the other end of the court. The NBA has never had a player with his timing, athleticism, speed, and size that has done what he has done. It's a shame that he doesn't embrace that part of his game and that we haven't had a coach that could get him to do so. Combined with all the steals, points, assists...Josh could be a game changer.

As it were, he's not the kind of player that can put a team on his back. IMO, the way he has played lately...he's only an average offensive player that could be so much more on both ends of the court.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Wretch

[Watchman]

Everytime i see a trade thread it almost always involves our most marketable and exciting player, Josh Smith. No one ever talks about Horford in potential trade. Why not? Because he's solid? Solid is fine, but we need spectacular. Horford reminds me of Shareef. He puts up solid numbers and is a good guy, but has never done anything of substance that I can remember. He's mechanical offensively and is only decent defensively. I've seen Smoove take over games dozens of times, I can't recall Horford ever "dominating" a game. Horford is a Udonis Haslem type of player. He'll be great for a team that has superstars, but he is not one. Never will be.

Trading Josh would be doing just what every Atlanta franchise has done since time in memoriam, trade our exciting player for some "white bread" not exciting "solid" "team player". And we will fail to draw 15k per game.

First of all, Horford is not untouchable. Second of all, your memory is quite selective. Smith has taken over dozens of games????

Are you including good and bad?

Also, Horford has had several 20/20 and if I recall correctly, more than one 30/20 game.

I'd be happy to trade either one of them if we could improve the team overall.

Oh and by the way, since when does "spectacular" equate to winning games?

Who cares if we are "spectacular" if we don't win?

[AHF]

His BYC status really shrinks the pool of possible players we could get for Horford since we can only bring back half of salary for next season in any trade.

I assume you know this but you failed to mention it................so maybe you don't know it since its kind of the main item about this topic that deserves a mention.

This must be first addressed in any discussion of a Horford trade.

Beyond that, no one on the team is untouchable. Horford doesn't have the upside of Josh Smith but he also doesn't have the downside - he isn't a tweener and has shown himself to be coachable. He is easily our most desirable asset, IMO.

[JJFAN4LF]

I think it's because Horford can play the 4 and the 5. If you trade Smith, you can slide Horford down to Power Forward and still be okay, but if you trade Horford, you have no Center. If you're trading Horford, you better be getting back a Center.

Horford's not untouchable. Smith is just more convenient when it comes to trading.

Edited June 21, 2011 by THFactory820

[Diesel]

Horford should not be untouchable. Moreover, BYC is something that can be taken care of with a trade with the right team. Moreover, Horf could help us out of Marv's bad contract.

AND

Horf has the most value. He's newly signed and it's a reasonable signing and he's a 2 time allstar with no personality quirks.

A trade could be: Horf/Marvin/2 2nd rounders for Bogut/Delfino/#8.

[Wretch]

Moreover, Horf could help us out of Marv's bad contract.

I've been thinking the same thing.

[willthepureshooter]

I vote for Horford to walk the plank!! lol But in all seriousness, Josh Smith has taken over plenty of games offensively and defensively. And for those who say he couldn't must've been watching "Walker Texas Ranger" at 7:30pm.

[Wretch]

I vote for Horford to walk the plank!! lol But in all seriousness, Josh Smith has taken over plenty of games offensively and defensively. And for those who say he couldn't must've been watching "Walker Texas Ranger" at 7:30pm.

I've never seen Walker, but I've watched a lot of basketball in nearly 30 years. I've seen lots of hawks players take over - Chris Crawford, Ed Gray, Isaiah Rider. To say that Josh Smith has not taken over a game offensively, would be wrong. To clarify though, watch the All Pros in the critical moments of a game - players like Dirk, Kobe, and Reggie Miller. These are the players that take over and change the game offensively.

Josh Smith is not that player on the offensive end is what I am saying. On the other end of the court, no doubt. On the offensive end...you just pray that he doesn't try to take someone off the dribble...or that his jumper hits the rim.

[thecampster]

Horford should not be untouchable. Moreover, BYC is something that can be taken care of with a trade with the right team. Moreover, Horf could help us out of Marv's bad contract.

AND

Horf has the most value. He's newly signed and it's a reasonable signing and he's a 2 time allstar with no personality quirks.

A trade could be: Horf/Marvin/2 2nd rounders for Bogut/Delfino/#8.

I'm having a hard time with that. That might be the best trade scenario I've seen from you in a while. Bogut = better interior D, better inside scoring, but worse 5 feet away from the basket. I'm not sure it could get us 8 but maybe.

ah...just figured it out. The salary's don't match by about 5 million.

Edited June 21, 2011 by thecampster

[AHF]

I'm having a hard time with that. That might be the best trade scenario I've seen from you in a while. Bogut = better interior D, better inside scoring, but worse 5 feet away from the basket. I'm not sure it could get us 8 but maybe.

ah...just figured it out. The salary's don't match by about 5 million.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5902907

Congratulations on a successful trade.

Due to Atlanta and Milwaukee being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Milwaukee had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Atlanta Trade Breakdown

Change in Team Outlook: -1.4 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and -0.5 apg.

Incoming Players

Andrew Bogut

26.5 year old , 7-0, 245 lb C from Utah

12.8 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.3 minutes

Carlos Delfino

28.5 year old , 6-6, 230 lb G from Fortitudo Bologna (Italy)

11.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.3 apg in 32.5 minutes

Outgoing Players

Marvin Williams

25 year old , 6-9, 230 lb F from North Carolina

10.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.7 minutes

Al Horford

25 year old , 6-10, 245 lb C-F from Florida

15.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 35.1 minutes

[Diesel]

I'm having a hard time with that. That might be the best trade scenario I've seen from you in a while. Bogut = better interior D, better inside scoring, but worse 5 feet away from the basket. I'm not sure it could get us 8 but maybe.

ah...just figured it out. The salary's don't match by about 5 million.

The only thing in question is the #8 but Sund has to talk about Bogut's Health, Al's sturdiness and the fact that Al is signed for a long time.

Milwaukee would say... We're developing Larry Sanders. With a little weight, there's your center. They also still have Gooden.

[thecampster]

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5902907

Congratulations on a successful trade.

Due to Atlanta and Milwaukee being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Milwaukee had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Atlanta Trade Breakdown

Change in Team Outlook: -1.4 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and -0.5 apg.

Incoming Players

Andrew Bogut

26.5 year old , 7-0, 245 lb C from Utah

12.8 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.3 minutes

Carlos Delfino

28.5 year old , 6-6, 230 lb G from Fortitudo Bologna (Italy)

11.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.3 apg in 32.5 minutes

Outgoing Players

Marvin Williams

25 year old , 6-9, 230 lb F from North Carolina

10.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.7 minutes

Al Horford

25 year old , 6-10, 245 lb C-F from Florida

15.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 35.1 minutes

That's pulling from Horfs old salary this year. For trade purposes we are on next year. Horf making 12 mil...Marvin 7.5. Bogut making (thought he made less) 12.1 mil in 2011-2012, Delfino making 3.5....so 3.9 million apart.

Atlanta would be taking back 3.9 million less in Salary with this trade...not sure who's exception would be used. Given Horf's O (marketability too) is better than Bugut's and Marvin > Delfino at both ends of the floor (except 3's)...it would probably net the 8th pick too. I can't see Milwaukee doing it though.

[coachx]

That's pulling from Horfs old salary this year. For trade purposes we are on next year. Horf making 12 mil...Marvin 7.5. Bogut making (thought he made less) 12.1 mil in 2011-2012, Delfino making 3.5....so 3.9 million apart.

Atlanta would be taking back 3.9 million less in Salary with this trade...not sure who's exception would be used. Given Horf's O (marketability too) is better than Bugut's and Marvin > Delfino at both ends of the floor (except 3's)...it would probably net the 8th pick too. I can't see Milwaukee doing it though.

Horford is BYC...........so even though he makes $12 mill next season we can only take back 1/2 ($6 mill) for his portion of the trade. That equals the numbers out.

Edited June 21, 2011 by coachx