Is Jason Heyward the real thing?

[Eddielives]

Just curious what Braves fans here think of Jason so far. With all the hype last year, he was somewhat unimpressive considering a catcher beat him out for rookie of the year and helped lead his team to a world series victory. This season, he's been called out by his teammates as perhaps not toughing it out to help his team. His average is poor and his numbers are way down. He's moving all around the plate with his stance to try and compensate for his inability to hit pitches that are too far in for his stroke to catch up with. I guess I'm starting to lose confidence in the young Braves phenom just like with Francouer years ago. Do we hype up these homegrown prospects too much here or am I just impatient and sounding the alarm way too soon?

[coachx]

Bobby Valentine is definately not a fan. He dissed his swing over and over last night. There is a major hole in Heyward's swing right now. He has to make some adjustments in order to hit the high strike better. MLB pitching have made the adjustment. They know he is a low ball hitter. Now its up to Heyward to make the next adjustment..........if he fails to adjust then his career could mirror that of Jeff Francoure.

I'm rooting for Heyward to make the adustment to hit the high inside pitch that pitchers are now abusing him with.

Edited July 25, 2011 by coachx

[frosgrim]

Fracoure is having a very nice year in KC. It looks like he's made some adjustments and is now staying on the ball more. Young hitters are going to go up and down. We should be patient with Heyward and let him figure it out. His big issue is getting healthy. If that shoulder is still bad as well as the back, then the problems might linger until he gets those muscles stronger.

Bottom line: I'm not giving up on him at least right now...

Then again, I thought Marvin would eventually come around. :scratchhead:

[lethalweapon3]

J-Hey has had no pressure in the clubhouse to improve until his peer Freddie Freeman's bat started coming around (fastest to 50 RBIs by a Braves rookie since Hank Aaron). By comparison, Heyward's gone 219 games and still hasn't amassed 100 RBIs yet. Maybe part of it is who's behind him in the order, maybe it's his struggle to adjust to playing through injuries, but still. He does have to improve his swing and his baserunning. I also thought he was a better fielder than he's shown thus far.

~lw3

[coachx]

Fracoure is having a very nice year in KC. It looks like he's made some adjustments and is now staying on the ball more. Young hitters are going to go up and down. We should be patient with Heyward and let him figure it out. His big issue is getting healthy. If that shoulder is still bad as well as the back, then the problems might linger until he gets those muscles stronger.

Then again, I thought Marvin would eventually come around. :scratchhead:

Francoure is having a nice year but he was the most hyped young player in baseball in 2005-06..........much like Heyward was. That is where I was drawing the similarity. I just hope it doesn't take Heyward 4 seasons to figure it out like it did Francoure.

Edited July 25, 2011 by coachx

[macdaddy]

Heyward is MUCH more disciplined than Francoeur ever was or is. Didn't Francoeur go like a season and a half without a walk or something?

[Eddielives]

Heyward is MUCH more disciplined than Francoeur ever was or is. Didn't Francoeur go like a season and a half without a walk or something?

Yeah I don't get the feeling Heyward will ever hit a wall quite like Francouer did but this nagging injury thing with Heyward and why it basically took pressure from Chipper and probably some other teammates to pressure him to "tough" it out and get back in the lineup is still mysterious to me. I wonder if the media circus that has swirled around him since last year has affected his humility and if he maybe thought he could just come back whenever he felt like it? I dunno. There's just something that makes me uneasy about how he's played this year and the nagging injury thing as an excuse is starting to get old when all doctors have checked him out and they can't find anything.

[CBAreject]

Heyward has been pretty bad this year, and he hasn't looked anything like the Heyward of 2010. The question should be how many of our guys can have career worst years before some of the blame lands on Larry Parrish. They almost all look lost at the plate except for McCann and Chipper (who both have their own hitting coach) and Freeman.

[Eddielives]

Heyward has been pretty bad this year, and he hasn't looked anything like the Heyward of 2010. The question should be how many of our guys can have career worst years before some of the blame lands on Larry Parrish. They almost all look lost at the plate except for McCann and Chipper (who both have their own hitting coach) and Freeman.

It's like a curse or something with this Braves offense. I mean I was admittedly calling for Terry Pendleton to be removed as hitting coach for a few years and now we see it seems to be more than that. This team has been very bad overall, hitting for several years now. I think we have too many .250ish career hitters and we need to trade for a Marquis Grissom type guy and one more legitimate big bat in the outfield and we'll be fine. If we could somehow land Bourn and Pence from Houston, I think we would be seriously improved. We would finally have a leadoff guy who can steal at any time and someone to replace the lowly McClouth. I'm sure Mclouth is a nice guy but he is my least favorite Brave. That trade hasn't netted us anything and I would much rather have Charlie Morton right now.

[coachx]

Heyward has been pretty bad this year, and he hasn't looked anything like the Heyward of 2010. The question should be how many of our guys can have career worst years before some of the blame lands on Larry Parrish. They almost all look lost at the plate except for McCann and Chipper (who both have their own hitting coach) and Freeman.

It's not Parrish's fault that Heyward can't hit the high heat and pitchers are not throwing low to him any more. The league has figured out he is a low ball hitter. The Braves are leading the NL in HRs in the month of July. I guess that is due to Chipper and McCann's "personal batting coaches."

I think Heyward will make the adjustment. I just have no clue how long it will take. Will it be this year, next year, 2013 ? Of course I'm hoping for sooner rather then later. Freddie Gonzalez has been batting him in the #2 hole trying to show confidence in him and give him his best batter to hit behind Heyward in hopes of leting him see the best possible pitches. Howver, Those 3 SO's while going 0-4 didn't help yesterday (& that was against right handed pitching).

On a positive note........it was refreshing to see Chipper roll off the disabled list and go 2-4 with a HR in the #3 hole. The guy can still get it done at 39 while playing 3B. He is still impressive. Chipper, Prado, Freeman, Uggla, and MCCann are all hitting pretty good right now.

The Braves actually out hit the Pirates 9 to 5. We got to get these base runners home. The Braves squandered scoring oppurtunities in Sunday nights loss too D. Willis and the Reds too.

Edited July 26, 2011 by coachx

[CBAreject]

It's not Parrish's fault that Heyward can't hit the high heat and pitchers are not throwing low to him any more. The league has figured out he is a low ball hitter. The Braves are leading the NL in HRs in the month of July. I guess that is due to Chipper and McCann's "personal batting coaches."

You seem to be defending Parrish. I'm baffled.

[Swatguy]

Without a doubt he has to adjust. A writer told me he does not train with weights or at least didn't prior to last season. He may have to lift and get overall stronger. I believe he is in the best situation with Chipper in one ear and a guy like Uggla showing he can climb out of his funk. As for the team hitting, I'm not as concerned yet. I believe Prado will pick it up. That rumor about getting Beltran for Minor may be the ticket. By the way, runner-up to rookie of the year has to be impressive, than not.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Swatguy

[CBAreject]

That rumor about getting Beltran for Minor may be the ticket. By the way, runner-up to rookie of the year has to be impressive, than not.

So, no reservations about trading a guy who is a former #1 draft pick (with commensurate signing bonus already invested), MLB-ready LH starting pitcher, projected as a #2 level starter, who is under team control for 6 full ML seasons for 2 months of a 36-yo injury-prone outfielder who comes with no draft-pick compensation when he walks in the offseason? Beltran is a very good hitter, but I don't think Wren will do that for a 2 month rental, especially considering he can't reliably play CF (our biggest hole) with his surgically repaired knee. The Mets will get Hoover or Oberholzer as the core of their package from the Braves, or they'll send Beltran elsewhere. They won't get a top-50 prospect back for him from any team.

[coachx]

You seem to be defending Parrish. I'm baffled.

Hitting coaches are over rated.

[CBAreject]

Hitting coaches are over rated.

Not really. They are paid very little, which is likely commensurate with the value teams/GM's believe they provide. I think they are probably under-rated from that perspective. I think you mean that they are blamed by fans too frequently for teams' struggles. With that I would agree. However, the fact that they are less important than fans might think doesn't mean that they are unimportant altogether. If they were unimportant, then we might as well not have one at all. If they have some importance, though, it makes sense to try to hire one who is helpful, or at the very least, not harmful. I believe Parrish's "aggressive" approach has been just that, and it's contributed to the Braves' team-wide nosedive in OBP. Remember, this team led the NL and was 4th in the majors last year in OBP. This year, they sit 25th. Most of the players are the same. Also, the hitters who do struggle have shown very little ability to make adjustments. Parrish can't be completely blamed, but if you defend him, you're saying he's blameless.

[AHF]

Jason Heyward was the #1 or #2 prospect in baseball. Franceour at his peak was the #14 prospect. Both were hyped but Heyward considerably more so and most scouts and writers (i.e., non-talking head types) still consider him a potential future MVP. In terms of the hype, I think Heyward is on a different level on a national scale. I also personally believe much more in his future given his plate discipline.

Let's see a season where he is healthy before lumping him in with Frenchy.

[AHF]

For a blast from the past, I pulled up Frenchy's ranking in baseball america and saw he was actually second among Braves on the list for 2005 - behind Andy Marte! At the top of the list were a few slightly better names like Joe Mauer and Felix Hernandez.

[coachx]

For a blast from the past, I pulled up Frenchy's ranking in baseball america and saw he was actually second among Braves on the list for 2005 - behind Andy Marte! At the top of the list were a few slightly better names like Joe Mauer and Felix Hernandez.

2nd prospect on the Braves and 14th in the world based on a magazine is not bad.

Once Francoure got the Braves he took the nation by storm. He was the most talked about young player in the game for a for good reason.

2005 he played in 70 games / hit .300 / 14 HR / 70 RBI

2006 he played in 162 games / hit .260 / 29 HRs . 105 RBIs

2007 he played in 162 games / hit .293 / 19 HRs / 103 RBIs

He was on the cover of SI and labled as "The Natural" from the old Robert Redford movie in August 2005.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/10098/index.htm

Your right........much of Heywards hype came BEFORE he played a MLB game. Much of Frenchy's hype came after he played a MLB.

I still think they are excellent comparisons in that both guys took the league by storm enough to get on the cover of SI. Then both players went ice cold once pitchers adjusted to their weaknesses.

Edited July 28, 2011 by coachx

[lethalweapon3]

ANY Braves rookie that gets approached by SI should just take off running...

~lw3

[AHF]

2nd prospect on the Braves and 14th in the world based on a magazine is not bad.

Once Francoure got the Braves he took the nation by storm. He was the most talked about young player in the game for a for good reason.

2005 he played in 70 games / hit .300 / 14 HR / 70 RBI

2006 he played in 162 games / hit .260 / 29 HRs . 105 RBIs

2007 he played in 162 games / hit .293 / 19 HRs / 103 RBIs

He was on the cover of SI and labled as "The Natural" from the old Robert Redford movie in August 2005.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/10098/index.htm

Your right........much of Heywards hype came BEFORE he played a MLB game. Much of Frenchy's hype came after he played a MLB.

I still think they are excellent comparisons in that both guys took the league by storm enough to get on the cover of SI. Then both players went ice cold once pitchers adjusted to their weaknesses.

Heyward's WAR from last season was double anything Francoeur has ever done and almost equal to his career total. Heyward had more MVP votes at age 20 than Frenchy has had in 7 seasons. Heyward was known for his striking discipline as a hitter which translates MUCH better to long-term success than a free swinger. Heyward has also been chronically injured this season and has been unable to get in a rhythm since returning from his last injury. All these are reasons to think that Heyward's ceiling is likely much higher.

If Heyward can avoid injury, I'll bet very, very heavily that Heyward is a far better player over 2012-2014 than any three years from French's 2007-2011 career.

The difference is that we haven't seen where Heyward's career goes now that pitchers have adjusted. I think he will much more strongly resemble Justin Upton than Jeff Francoeur.

Edited July 28, 2011 by AHF