So Marvin wants Out?

[Admin]

He has never stepped up and demanded that he get the ball over less efficient shooters. He has been a more efficient scorer than Josh Smith and Joe Johnson every single season for the last 5 years. He has never once stepped up and asserted himself to improve this team in 5 years and has just meekly accepted that he will drift on the floor into irrelevance.

That isn't good enough and he deserves to carry a large part of the blame for that even if you take out of the picture the fact that he is the highly compensated former #2 pick. His passiveness is his greatest liability.

It is incredible that he wants to be traded before he will step up and ask to do more.

How do you know with such certainty that he's never stepped up and demanded the ball? Just because he hasn't done it publicly doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I can easily envision a scenario where Marvin has said he wants the ball more and Woody / LD / Joe / Josh have basically ignored him. And even if it hasn't happened does that make him a bad guy or a bad teammate or whatever? IMO it doesn't, it basically makes him a company man who goes along with whatever he is told to do and quietly goes to work and does just that day in and day out and until now he's never complained about it and that must tell you something about the state of the Hawks when Marvin is asking to be traded.

Now I'm not saying that Marvin is blameless but you've got to look at the coaches who haven't used him properly and his teammates who haven't gotten him more involved and assign them some blame as well, especially the head coaches since it's their job to get the most out of their talent. But yes Marvin does deserve some blame for what appears to be him accepting his role that is given to him and to our knowledge not doing anything about it.

I think like someone else stated that Coaching is the real problem. I've watched BBALL for a long time and I look at the Hawks Offense and Im like wtf are they doing. Just standing around looking confused. Its horrible.

It's definitely an insult for our offense to be compared to the Princeton offense that's for sure!

[Vol4ever]

Most shallow statement I have ever seen, but Diesel I understand you step out on the ledge on occasion.

Lets get something straight. Marvin is 6-9, 245 lbs. Marvin is a 4. Marvin can shoot the ball. Anytime Josh havs been out and Marvin put in the 4 position he has produced at least 20/8. Marvin can score in the low post, especially when that cancer Josh Smith is not in the game. I could eleberate on Josh Smith, but this is a Marvin thread. Marvin has more respect around the league with GM's and coaches than Josh Smith.

I cant wait for Marvin to go to the right team and be a 2 option. He will be a 18/9 player.

The problem with this team is the lack of a true NBA head coach and a front office with a nueron firing.

[MoBetta]

It's definitely an insult for our offense to be compared to the Princeton offense that's for sure!

I don't think we can properly gauge this team until we have an actual coach with an actual offense

[Randy]

What I'm wondering is how much the T-Mac issue about playing time goes into this. T-Mac comes in for Marvin- he's gripping about playing time, so probably Marvin said something like "If you want play him more than me, trade me." My thought is that neither one of thiem has been very consistant, and has little to complain about, except maybe the other guy.

Anyway, bad mojo all around. Maybe a few days off for the All Star break will cool things down.

[MoBetta]

I say we elect Sgt Hartman as the new Coach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofIj9gGJf4g

Who agrees with me

"Josh Smith Im gonna give u 3 seconds exactly 3 f**kin seconds to stop shooting jumpers or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skullf**k you!!!"

*Josh takes jumper*

"Get on your knees scumbag"

Edited February 21, 2012 by MoBetta

[Nicholasp27]

His asking for this shows he actually does care and doesn't just show up to collect a paycheck

The problem is that we have never been a smart team or well coached offense that goes to the more efficient guy or the hot guy....we let joe/josh run the show (and Jamal/bibby before them)... Look at horfords shot attempts when leading the lead in midrange fg%...

We will regret this trade as he is the perfect sf for our team due to joe/josh usage

The replacement will play worse defense and not get meaningfully more shots and shoot a worse efg and get to the line less...perhaps they can rebound more?

As long as joe/josh get to go iso and get to jack up Ill-advised jumpers we will not have an efficient or strong offense

This move just weakens our defense when it was finally a huge and consistent strength...poor offense and mediocre defense is worse than poor offense and strong defense ldo

[AHF]

How do you know with such certainty that he's never stepped up and demanded the ball? Just because he hasn't done it publicly doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I can easily envision a scenario where Marvin has said he wants the ball more and Woody / LD / Joe / Josh have basically ignored him. And even if it hasn't happened does that make him a bad guy or a bad teammate or whatever? IMO it doesn't, it basically makes him a company man who goes along with whatever he is told to do and quietly goes to work and does just that day in and day out and until now he's never complained about it and that must tell you something about the state of the Hawks when Marvin is asking to be traded.

Now I'm not saying that Marvin is blameless but you've got to look at the coaches who haven't used him properly and his teammates who haven't gotten him more involved and assign them some blame as well, especially the head coaches since it's their job to get the most out of their talent. But yes Marvin does deserve some blame for what appears to be him accepting his role that is given to him and to our knowledge not doing anything about it.

I expect him to assert himself on the floor. Players demand the ball when they are in a good position to score and express displeasure when they are not included in a play where they had a good opportunity. Marvin has never done this. He just drifts.

Is it possible he is asserting himself behind closed doors? Sure. It is likely? No.

I do agree he hasn't been a great fit for our offense and fault lies with the coaches as well as Marvin, but he is the greatest obstacle to his own success with his passiveness on the floor, IMO.

[Eddielives]

Well one thing is for sure. It's on now as far as Marvin is concerned. With Joe and Al out, he's gonna get an opportunity to score more and I bet his teammates are going to say show us what you got big fella. If he clumsily falls down and draws offensive fouls and doesn't nail most of him jumpers, he's gonna hear it from his mates and the crowd at Phillips I believe.

Just another side note. Does anyone else find it strange that this comes out right when he was out attending a funeral? I dunno. Just seems weird with the timing. Is it possible he's emotional and was just blowing steam and this is all being blown out of proportion?

[MaceCase]

Everybody knows it. Marvin was picked over better players. You don't think when Chris Paul Comes to town that Joe doesn't think about what could have been. Would he say it to Marvin? Probably not, but it definitely has crossed his mind. Remember it was Joe who look around and said, I need some better players.

Yes it was Joe that looked around and decided to sign with the Hawks twice after Marvin was already locked up to the tune of 192 million dollars and the cost of two 1st round draft picks and soon to be more players and said "I need some better players".

[AHF]

Anytime Josh havs been out and Marvin put in the 4 position he has produced at least 20/8.

Here is Marvin's production in games missed by Josh Smith from the fall of 2008 through the present:

November 9, 2008 - 14 points, 7 rebounds

November 11, 2008 - 13 points, 4 rebounds

November 12, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

November 14, 2008 - 21 points, 4 rebounds

November 15, 2008 - 14 points, 6 rebounds

November 18, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

November 19, 2008 - 21 points, 14 rebounds

November 21, 2008 - 22 points, 10 rebounds

November 22, 2008 - 11 points, 7 rebounds

November 26, 2008 - 18 points, 5 rebounds

November 28, 2008 - 10 points, 7 rebounds

November 29, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

February 25, 2009 - 31 points, 7 rebounds

April 14, 2010 - 8 points, 4 rebounds

March 2, 2011 - 10 points, 4 rebounds

March 4, 2011 - 8 points, 8 rebounds

April 5, 2011 - 8 points, 3 rebounds

April 8, 2011 - 8 points, 1 rebound

April 9, 2011 - 8 points, 4 rebounds

Total 19 games

20/8 Games - 2 of 19 = 10.5%

Average 14 ppg, 5.6 rpg

Those rebounding numbers in particular are not exactly an impressive job of picking up the slack with Josh's rebounding out of the picture. I don't buy Marvin as a 4 because of his weakness on the boards.

[MaceCase]

Here is Marvin's production in games missed by Josh Smith from the fall of 2008 through the present:

November 9, 2008 - 14 points, 7 rebounds

November 11, 2008 - 13 points, 4 rebounds

November 12, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

November 14, 2008 - 21 points, 4 rebounds

November 15, 2008 - 14 points, 6 rebounds

November 18, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

November 19, 2008 - 21 points, 14 rebounds

November 21, 2008 - 22 points, 10 rebounds

November 22, 2008 - 11 points, 7 rebounds

November 26, 2008 - 18 points, 5 rebounds

November 28, 2008 - 10 points, 7 rebounds

November 29, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

February 25, 2009 - 31 points, 7 rebounds

April 14, 2010 - 8 points, 4 rebounds

March 2, 2011 - 10 points, 4 rebounds

March 4, 2011 - 8 points, 8 rebounds

April 5, 2011 - 8 points, 3 rebounds

April 8, 2011 - 8 points, 1 rebound

April 9, 2011 - 8 points, 4 rebounds

Total 19 games

20/8 Games - 2 of 19 = 10.5%

Average 14 ppg, 5.6 rpg

Those rebounding numbers in particular are not exactly an impressive job of picking up the slack with Josh's rebounding out of the picture. I don't buy Marvin as a 4 because of his weakness on the boards.

Not nearly as lofty as the poster claimed but I noticed something from looking at your list about how his numbers noticeably dropped below the previous averages after 2010. I'll exclude the April 14th game as that was the last game of the regular season that year but then I found this.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/back-injury-to-keep-792140.html

That article was from December 2010 where he received a lower back injury that was diagnosed as a bruise at the time and was supposed to keep him out just 4 games but in actuality turned out to be 12.

Hmm, seems to look like an actual correlation to the whole back problem thing.

[Admin]

Well one thing is for sure. It's on now as far as Marvin is concerned. With Joe and Al out, he's gonna get an opportunity to score more and I bet his teammates are going to say show us what you got big fella. If he clumsily falls down and draws offensive fouls and doesn't nail most of him jumpers, he's gonna hear it from his mates and the crowd at Phillips I believe.

Just another side note. Does anyone else find it strange that this comes out right when he was out attending a funeral? I dunno. Just seems weird with the timing. Is it possible he's emotional and was just blowing steam and this is all being blown out of proportion?

Interesting point there... I wonder if he's taking a look at his life a bit harder, or maybe someone in his family said something to him, or maybe he's wanting to be closer to home?

Here is Marvin's production in games missed by Josh Smith from the fall of 2008 through the present:

November 9, 2008 - 14 points, 7 rebounds

November 11, 2008 - 13 points, 4 rebounds

November 12, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

November 14, 2008 - 21 points, 4 rebounds

November 15, 2008 - 14 points, 6 rebounds

November 18, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

November 19, 2008 - 21 points, 14 rebounds

November 21, 2008 - 22 points, 10 rebounds

November 22, 2008 - 11 points, 7 rebounds

November 26, 2008 - 18 points, 5 rebounds

November 28, 2008 - 10 points, 7 rebounds

November 29, 2008 - 14 points, 4 rebounds

February 25, 2009 - 31 points, 7 rebounds

April 14, 2010 - 8 points, 4 rebounds

March 2, 2011 - 10 points, 4 rebounds

March 4, 2011 - 8 points, 8 rebounds

April 5, 2011 - 8 points, 3 rebounds

April 8, 2011 - 8 points, 1 rebound

April 9, 2011 - 8 points, 4 rebounds

Total 19 games

20/8 Games - 2 of 19 = 10.5%

Average 14 ppg, 5.6 rpg

Those rebounding numbers in particular are not exactly an impressive job of picking up the slack with Josh's rebounding out of the picture. I don't buy Marvin as a 4 because of his weakness on the boards.

Just curious but where did you get those numbers? Is there a site that lets you filter stats like that or did you manually pull them up?

[Nicholasp27]

It's likely it's due to TMac's comments given the proximity and the lack of other obvious factors

[Diesel]

Most shallow statement I have ever seen, but Diesel I understand you step out on the ledge on occasion.

Lets get something straight. Marvin is 6-9, 245 lbs. Marvin is a 4. Marvin can shoot the ball. Anytime Josh havs been out and Marvin put in the 4 position he has produced at least 20/8. Marvin can score in the low post, especially when that cancer Josh Smith is not in the game. I could eleberate on Josh Smith, but this is a Marvin thread. Marvin has more respect around the league with GM's and coaches than Josh Smith.

I cant wait for Marvin to go to the right team and be a 2 option. He will be a 18/9 player.

The problem with this team is the lack of a true NBA head coach and a front office with a nueron firing.

I'm praying for Marvin to go to Minny so that he can prove you completely wrong.

Marvin is not capable of being that player you think he is. He's just not. He doesn't have that gene in him that says I have to get it done. Don't you find it unusual that now that we're losing players left and right, Marvin tunes in and asks for a trade instead of inserting himself?

Let's see.. From Last year.

No Craw.

No Horf.

Right Now, NO Joe.

No Josh Powell.

No Twin.

No Mo Evans.

No Bibby.

And with all those guys not being there, Marvin still hasn't manned up and stepped up and been that man. It's freakin Year 7. He hasn't been that man because deep down, he don't want to be that man.

He wasn't that man as a youth when he sat out the championship game so that his friend could play.

He wasn't that man in college when he came off the bench for a championship team.

He has yet to be that man as a Hawk.

Pargo has more "that Man" in him than Marvin.

Last year, Teague showed that he had More "that man" than Marvin.

Mean Willie Green has more "that man" than Marvin.

And then Marvin does what he has done since day 1. DEFER.

Well, damnit, if you're really that man, you call for the ball. You Jeremy Lin the ball and do what is needed. Year 7.

Don't blame the coach... Marvin can be that man any time he wants to. Instead he goes and stands in his corner and waits for permission to shoot.

A long time ago, I told you all that Chillz was better than Marvin. Because while Chillz was incredibly limited, he had the heart to do more than stand on the 3 pt line and wait for somebody to give him the nod to shoot.

Please, let him go elsewhere. I would love to see him blow up for somebody else... BUT.. I doubt it.

[HawksFan87]

This thread is about marvin not josh nice try though...

But you're fighting a losing battle here. No one can force marvin to be more than what he is right now. He has to want it for himself. So like I saod marvin is to blame for his own problems not any other coach, or player.

[High5]

You can call Marvin a bust, you can say he's overpaid, but calling him a cancer (particularly the cancer of this team) is insane. We all know you dislike Marvin and you always jump at the opportunity to put him down, but I thought you were better than that.

Anyway, it's sad the Hawks haven't had a coach capable of maturing and harnessing all the talent we've had in the last 8 years. We'll probably never see consistently what Josh, Marvin, Teague, and Horford are capable of.

[GameTime]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/g207ud

The #Hawks just landed in NYC and had a convo with a very disappointed Marvin Williams, who while attending the funeral of a family friend, had to hear about his "reported" trade request. He vehemently denies ever asking for a trade and said, "you know that's not me"

[Nicholasp27]

Whew, dodged a bullet

Our bigger needs are figuring out what to do with the core...marvin fits great for now and if we ever change our core then we can reevaluate

[Guest Walter]

So it's Marvin's fault that the Hawks drafted him at #2? It's Marvin's fault that the Hawks gave him his most recent contract? And God forbid anyone who's been in their job for 6 years and wants to try and become a bigger part of their organization actually says something about it and tries to do it. Damn Marvin is just an awful, awful human being isn't he.

Red herring alert. Nobody really thinks MW is a bad person just a ridiculously over-hyped basketball prospect with little or no love for the game and less desire to work hard enough to reach his potential.

We paid MW to be a professional. MW chose instead to spend his off-seasons as a professional STUDENT. MW hurt himself the most but this franchise was hurt also with his lackadaisical attitude towards his chosen profession. Hawks' management blew it all along the way, but MW was being paid to REACH HIS POTENTIAL and at best he gave a half *ss effort to do so.

About the point at hand, perhaps MW would like to restructure his contract and take less money so he CAN be traded. Maybe he can get his wish that he's been plotting in summer class and UNC over the last 6 off-seasons and be traded. Doubt it. He'll want the money and the hardest working student on the Hawks will somehow make himself even less of an impact on the court.

W

Anyway, it's sad the Hawks haven't had a coach capable of maturing and harnessing all the talent we've had in the last 8 years. We'll probably never see consistently what Josh, Marvin, Teague, and Horford are capable of.

How on earth is it ANY coach's fault that MW spent his developmental off-seasons as a student and not a student of the game?

W

[Joker]

Marvin's perception is still tainted by the draft miss by ASG and Knight. He's a solid SF to me who has a lot of talent but no heart or will. I don't see any reason to trade him for nothing less than value now that he's at full health. Of course Diesel would trade him for a pack of cigarettes.