Josh and Gasol

[Admin]

If Gasol was still Gasol, he wouldn't be on the f**king block. Teams like Atlanta who are really just the right piece away are the gullible motherf**kers that LA and teams like them look to, to get rid of their trash.

I'm not going to tell you again to stop with the profanity. Final warning.

[dlpin]

Dreb% is an individual stat and takes that in to account. It's still not close.

No, it does not control for who a player is playing alongside. Rebounding rate numbers control for the availability of rebounds overall, but it does not adjust for who is playing next to someone who is a great rebounder. It was created to control for stuff like players in the old days averaging 20 rebounds a game because they played in a faster pace, missed more shots, and so on. Or players in bad teams that just let the opposition shoot, instead of slowing down the tempo and forcing turnovers. So rebounding rate is essentially the share of total rebounds a player could have gotten.

[EazyRoc]

So 2 and 3 points below career highs is worthy of saying it's a tremendous drop off....... But being 13 and 6 points above careerhighs is worthy of saying business as usual? I have no idea why you believe I'm dodging anything in your ludicrously crafted arguments seeing as you are the one picking and choosing stats in your favor. Now you want to even question the authenticity of Lethal and his "Stat du Jours" while you are at it. LOL. Keep at it, bro.

One player is at an age when.players hit their prime and the other is at an age when they are in the decline. It's common sense. You're leaning on another poster to authenticate your argument as if he is some authority on the Celtics gameplans. Keep reaching kid..

[EazyRoc]

No, it does not control for who a player is playing alongside. Rebounding rate numbers control for the availability of rebounds overall, but it does not adjust for who is playing next to someone who is a great rebounder. It was created to control for stuff like players in the old days averaging 20 rebounds a game because they played in a faster pace, missed more shots, and so on. Or players in bad teams that just let the opposition shoot, instead of slowing down the tempo and forcing turnovers. So rebounding rate is essentially the share of total rebounds a player could have gotten.

You're right. I misunderstood the definition. Either way, just because you play with a subpar player doesn't mean rebounds are going to start dropping into your hands.

[dlpin]

You're right. I misunderstood the definition. Either way, just because you play with a subpar player doesn't mean rebounds are going to start dropping into your hands.

No, but it has a big influence. Michael Beasley went from having a DRB% of 19.8 and 18.8 in Miami playing alongside Jermaine Oneal, to having 14.1 and 17.2 playing with Kevin Love.

[ag82]

You're right. I misunderstood the definition. Either way, just because you play with a subpar player doesn't mean rebounds are going to start dropping into your hands.

It does probably mean that you will get a few more though. And Josh Smith and Pau are probably at opposite ends of the spectrum regarding the talent level of the Centers they were playing with. It's kind of like the guys who score a bunch of points on bad teams, like how a lot of people talk about SAR on here. (personally, I'm a huge SAR fan btw)

[AHF]

If Gasol was still Gasol, he wouldn't be on the f**king block. Teams like Atlanta who are really just the right piece away are the gullible motherf**kers that LA and teams like them look to, to get rid of their trash.

Wasn't Gasol on the block in his absolute prime? Isn't that how LA returned to being a championship team? I am confused by an argument that starts off with the statement that a player who was put on the block in his prime and helped his new team win multiple championships wouldn't be on the block if he was in his prime. It already happened. I think we can acknowledge this isn't outside the realm of possibility particularly when there are obvious cap concerns for LA and basketball concerns with two back to the basket studs and not enough room on the floor for them both.

1. I believe that Gasol is one of the best low post players in the league, Josh's offensive game is free lance. If the Hawks would have had Gasol in the Celtics series the Hawks win. They win because every team in the league knows the Hawks have ZERO low post game and they crowd the perimeter to guard the Hawks outside shooters. There is NOBODY on the Celtics that could guard Gasol in the low post, Garnett would have been on the bench a lot in the series with foul trouble. Gasol would have averaged 20/10 and Joe would have been stroking jumpers all series. The Hawks would have been in the ECF finals and would give the Heat fits in the ECF series.

I think you are overstating Pau's impact here. The refs wouldn't put Garnett on the bench and he is still a stud defender with a tremendously high IQ. I don't think Gasol automatically dominates Garnett. That said, Garnett has been one of the 5 best players on any team so far in the playoffs. Saying Gasol wouldn't just destroy him isn't an insult. Duncan and Garnett have been bringing it in the post-season.

[MaceCase]

One player is at an age when.players hit their prime and the other is at an age when they are in the decline. It's common sense. You're leaning on another poster to authenticate your argument as if he is some authority on the Celtics gameplans. Keep reaching kid..

The only one speculating is you. I told you already, I'm only leaning on the multiple facts I have while you want to point out an anomaly from a 5 game sample. It's right there for you to see, Pau is within his career norms for rebounding, he only fell off slightly from his previous highs, he also plays with a guy that has tremendous effect on the amount of rebounds he has available to him and lo' his emergence and healthiest seasons coincide with Pau's rebounding dropping off... This is common sense but you want to speculate that it's a result of him being only 31.... Are you trying to make the argument that Josh did what exactly? Reached his prime in the Celtic series? What does the matter of him reaching his prime have to do with the whole point of him about to be a free agent? Did you overlook that as well when you were trying to find the 2 stats Josh beats Pau in while still being overall not as good? So he's reaching his prime but is still not as a good as a guy falling out of his.......oh, except in two categories......in a limited sample size......against a team that Lethal didn't speculate on he simply determined off of the facts that they had a historically bad Offensive Rebounding season.....of which the inverse is Defensive Rebounds for their opponent.... But I'm reaching? Even with a guy like Marvin coincidental also hitting a career high of defensive rebounding 10 points higher than his previous high.... Yea, you can tell yourself that while you continue to clutch your two straws.

[EazyRoc]

The point with age is that Pau is has a much lower chance of actually improving statistically and that Josh has a much higher chance. Which is why I don't think this off season was an anomaly. Again, I thought it was common sense. I hope I broke it down enough for you this time. Reading and Simple arithmetic are simple fundamental skills. I cited 3 categories and actually excluded steal %, which would make four. Pau has been the worse of the two defensively except in one category and that's blocks for the last 2 post seasons.

[Sothron]

I find it a tad bit amusing that we've seen so many angry posts about a trade that is probably (read) almost likely) to never happen.

[Joker]

Wasn't Gasol on the block in his absolute prime? Isn't that how LA returned to being a championship team? I am confused by an argument that starts off with the statement that a player who was put on the block in his prime and helped his new team win multiple championships wouldn't be on the block if he was in his prime. It already happened. I think we can acknowledge this isn't outside the realm of possibility particularly when there are obvious cap concerns for LA and basketball concerns with two back to the basket studs and not enough room on the floor for them both.I think you are overstating Pau's impact here. The refs wouldn't put Garnett on the bench and he is still a stud defender with a tremendously high IQ. I don't think Gasol automatically dominates Garnett. That said, Garnett has been one of the 5 best players on any team so far in the playoffs. Saying Gasol wouldn't just destroy him isn't an insult. Duncan and Garnett have been bringing it in the post-season.

AHF, I was talking about the Lakers block, not a team like Atlanta at that time in Memphis. When the Lakers trade guys, they are generally done outside of Shaq. Shaq was elite, you want a Shaq even if he's declining. I remember when Hawks fans wanted Shaq from Cleveland, you had guys like Diesel and Northcyde who swore Shaq was the final piece, he was hurt most of the year for Boston and retired. Winners, people like me who didn't think Shaq was worth the trouble.I don't see any chance of this working out favorably for the Hawks. I don't think Gasol will respond well to the trade. I seen Gasol when he's not mentally into it, he's terrible. He would be like LO when he was traded from LA. I don't want NO part of Pau Gasol. I pray he's traded for Iggy or something. I don't want to see him on the Hawks or I am officially done with this team. I will delete my acct, sell my good, and everything, I am tired of supporting total ineptness. I will promise you that this will fail. I will promise you that. It's just like those who swore T-Mac would be T-Mac of old when he signed for the vet min. Or Shaq, or Carson Palmer, or Wash D. McNabb, Philly C. Webb. I will promise you this will fail.

[Joker]

Trade Josh to New Orleans for their first lottery pick as well as Aminu and move on with life. This Gasol deal is the last possible option that should only be discussed by the ASB next year.Draft Drummond or Marshall.

[Diesel]

I find it a tad bit amusing that we've seen so many angry posts about a trade that is probably (read) almost likely) to never happen.

When i originally proposed this trade, I called it a realistic trade. This is the reason behind the anger. Some are angry because they feel that Josh Smith should be a Hawk forever even though he himself has said he is here this year (period). Others are angry because the Josh Smith protection Force are doing all they can to skew the facts. Finally, there's another group who are angry because it makes too much sense and it's hard to understand how those who fight against it so vehemently would elect to go with the status quo and watch Smoove leave us high and dry at the end. Lastly, there are those who feel that ASG are idiots and won't do one thing.... those people have given up and they are ambivalent towards it all.

[Diesel]

AHF, I was talking about the Lakers block, not a team like Atlanta at that time in Memphis. When the Lakers trade guys, they are generally done outside of Shaq. Shaq was elite, you want a Shaq even if he's declining. I remember when Hawks fans wanted Shaq from Cleveland, you had guys like Diesel and Northcyde who swore Shaq was the final piece, he was hurt most of the year for Boston and retired. Winners, people like me who didn't think Shaq was worth the trouble.I don't see any chance of this working out favorably for the Hawks. I don't think Gasol will respond well to the trade. I seen Gasol when he's not mentally into it, he's terrible. He would be like LO when he was traded from LA. I don't want NO part of Pau Gasol. I pray he's traded for Iggy or something. I don't want to see him on the Hawks or I am officially done with this team. I will delete my acct, sell my good, and everything, I am tired of supporting total ineptness. I will promise you that this will fail. I will promise you that. It's just like those who swore T-Mac would be T-Mac of old when he signed for the vet min. Or Shaq, or Carson Palmer, or Wash D. McNabb, Philly C. Webb. I will promise you this will fail.

Uhm... don't trip up on your own contradictions as you try to BS your way out of your own words.The Lakers have traded..Shaq. He wasn't done.Vlade. He wasn't done.Fisher. He's still doing his same thing.and there are others.

[Diesel]

Trade Josh to New Orleans for their first lottery pick as well as Aminu and move on with life. This Gasol deal is the last possible option that should only be discussed by the ASB next year.Draft Drummond or Marshall.

So now, trade Josh for a project while we still have Joe and Al under contract.Great thinking. You sure you wasn't in NJ before?I mean, I know you live in D.C.... are you a part of the Washington Wizards Scouting team?

[Alex]

Is this Marc or Pau?

[Sothron]

Uhm... don't trip up on your own contradictions as you try to BS your way out of your own words.The Lakers have traded..Shaq. He wasn't done.Vlade. He wasn't done.Fisher. He's still doing his same thing.and there are others.

Eddie Jones, Sam Perkins, Elden Campbell, Van Excel, Ceballos...I can keep going.

[ag82]

I don't see any chance of this working out favorably for the Hawks. I don't think Gasol will respond well to the trade. I seen Gasol when he's not mentally into it, he's terrible. He would be like LO when he was traded from LA.

And Josh is somebody who plays terrific basketball when he isn't all there mentally? Give me a break.I think Pau would actually benefit from getting out of LA at this point. I don't think he likes it there. I don't think he likes playing with kobe or being the second big man option. That guy needs a change of scenery more than anyone in the game.

[niremetal]

Pau Gasol remains one of the three best offensive big men in the NBA, along with Nowitzki and Bosh. There's a reason he made 3 straight All-NBA teams going into this year. There's a reason the Lakers made three straight Finals right after he arrived, after three straight years of failing to make it past the first round.Put Gasol on our team and you get someone who legitimately takes pressure off JJ on the offensive end. Oh, and you don't lose as much defense as you think because Gasol is a better on-ball defender than Smoove and because I have a feeling Al would relish taking on the role of being the lead help defender.That being said, never gonna happen. If Phil Jackson were still around, he'd be laughing his ass off that the trade was even being discussed.

[Diesel]

Pau Gasol remains one of the three best offensive big men in the NBA, along with Nowitzki and Bosh. There's a reason he made 3 straight All-NBA teams going into this year. There's a reason the Lakers made three straight Finals right after he arrived, after three straight years of failing to make it past the first round.Put Gasol on our team and you get someone who legitimately takes pressure off JJ on the offensive end. Oh, and you don't lose as much defense as you think because Gasol is a better on-ball defender than Smoove and because I have a feeling Al would relish taking on the role of being the lead help defender.That being said, never gonna happen. If Phil Jackson were still around, he'd be laughing his ass off that the trade was even being discussed.

I think the Lakers would do it for financial reason and for skapegoate purposes. It's easy for Jim Buss to claim Gasol as the problem and say that they plan to go with a younger squad around Kobe. Moreover, it fits the Lakers to get Josh and then try to persuade Orlando to send D-12 for Bynum straight up and then try to resign them both.The question is not on LAL so much. The question is on Atlanta. Do we have the smarts to do the deal?