Why is Horford exempt?

[hawkman]

Horford played poorly against Chicago. I think most people feel like he was probably hurt at the time. He was the guy during that horrible regular season that actually seemed to care about winning every night.

As for his limited time last year...Have you looked at his game log for this past season? 12/7 doesn't really tell the story.

http://sports.yahoo....dhwe97k5d6MPaB4

His rebounds were down because a couple of our early games as well as a few in between were blowouts and he didn't play many minutes. His points were down too because he was taking less than 10 shots a game. Not counting the game he was hurt, he only shot under 50% twice and had 6 games where he took less than 10 shots (only 4 with over ten shots). Except for the first game, he had multiple assists in every game.

I don't really need to type everything that you can read in his 2012 game log. His numbers were down but I don't think it was because of poor play. It was early in the year and he was just going with the flow. 10 games is a VERY small sample size.

...And sample size comes out yet again. If we made the same exuses/allowances for EVERY player on this team, everyone would/should be untouchable.

[AHawks89]

In before joker/nbasuperstar says that he is Karl Malone

If that's the case, we need OJ Mayo too.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Put simply, he's the kind of guy you want on your team. He'll be a part of an NBA championship team before his career is over. Hopefully it'll be with us.

Al is just a leader and a winner. He works, doesn't complain, and plays with a ton of heart... Honestly, he has the opposite attitude of Smith. He may not be as athletic or as great on the defensive end, but you don't have to worry about Horford slipping out of his role and causing the team to lose. You won't see Horford donking shots he has no business taking. Horford also steps his game up when things get tight in the fourth. He is the type of guy you want starting on your squad. Atlanta wants him on the team too... He's why the Dwight trade fell through because ASG and Sund didn't want to give Horford up...

[cam1218]

...And sample size comes out yet again. If we made the same exuses/allowances for EVERY player on this team, everyone would/should be untouchable.

What excuses are being made? Did you even look at the numbers or his game log? He wasn't having a bad year. He averaged those numbers with limited minutes and limited shots. It is a sample size because you don't get the full picture when you just glance at the numbers. It has nothing to do with accepting poor play, it is just understanding where his stats come from.I love Horford, I feel he is our best player. I'd trade him for the right pieces though. Somebody else said in this thread, everybody on our team should be on the block if it can improve us. It's just trading Horford right now doesn't make any sense unless it is for Howard or another all star. Edited June 28, 2012 by cam1218

[hawkman]

Al is just a leader and a winner. He works, doesn't complain, and plays with a ton of heart... Honestly, he has the opposite attitude of Smith. He may not be as athletic or as great on the defensive end, but you don't have to worry about Horford slipping out of his role and causing the team to lose. You won't see Horford donking shots he has no business taking. Horford also steps his game up when things get tight in the fourth. He is the type of guy you want starting on your squad. Atlanta wants him on the team too... He's why the Dwight trade fell through because ASG and Sund didn't want to give Horford up...

You see, this(the stuff in bold) is the kind of stuff I want to understand. I'm not knocking Horf. I just want to know what these opinions are based on.

[MrNique]

Al is just a leader and a winner. He works, doesn't complain, and plays with a ton of heart... Honestly, he has the opposite attitude of Smith. He may not be as athletic or as great on the defensive end, but you don't have to worry about Horford slipping out of his role and causing the team to lose. You won't see Horford donking shots he has no business taking. Horford also steps his game up when things get tight in the fourth. He is the type of guy you want starting on your squad. Atlanta wants him on the team too... He's why the Dwight trade fell through because ASG and Sund didn't want to give Horford up...

It's because of these reasons. And he is basically the poster boy for the type of guys Ferry wants here. I would say unless a great deal came along, Ferry is building around this guy.

[Wretch]

I'll add too...Al doesn't get enough shots. You push Al and you give this guy as many shots as Smoove takes, good shots [NBASuperstar]with a decent PnR PG[/NBASuperstar], and you're going to see better than 12/9. Much better.I'd bet my juevos on it.

[ag82]

You see, this(the stuff in bold) is the kind of stuff I want to understand. I'm not knocking Horf. I just want to know what these opinions are based on.

I think you can see those things from watching the games. I think most of us that view him this way have seen those things from watching him play and the way he reacts ( or doesn't react ) to certain situations.

[MaceCase]

I'm not validating anything. I thought the criticism of Horf after the Chi series was a bit much. I think the opinion that Horf is untouchable is a bit much. The majority of Horf's career so far amounts to a 13ppg and 9rpg player. If that's the sample size you are referring to, then you should understand why I'd like an explanation as to why that constitutes an untouchable player.

And Josh's amounts to 15 and 8 yet he has an entire fanclub demanding the whole draft lottery for him. It's a simplistic view, take in more stats but go beyond just that, take in the numerous high accolades, take in the on court and off the court demeanor, take in that he's less talented than either of Josh, Marvin, and Joe yet works consistently harder. Add in that he's the least tenured out of all them yet showed more tangible improvements in a shorter time span in addition to being locked up for 4 more seasons on a very reasonable contract. These are reasons that you say "hmm, just maybe I'll keep that chip off the table just yet". He is quite literally the only positive asset on a much maligned franchise. Marvin is known better as the "guy picked before Deron and Paul", Joe is considered "the worst contract in NBA history", Josh is known more for "ill advised jumpers"( and that is tamest public critique of his decision making) than anything positive he does. Simply put, if you have a franchise swimming in negative rep you just might want to hold onto, if not foster, the only positive rep you got going for it that just so happens to have a very high on court impact as well. Does that make him untouchable? No, but GMs know that the asking price is high enough that a trade may not be feasible.

[Johnnybravo4]

Horford at best is Reef, a good guy who doesnt hurt your team but will never be a star. What this past year has shown is that stars win championships.

[MrMeltdown]

Horford at best is Reef, a good guy who doesnt hurt your team but will never be a star. What this past year has shown is that stars win championships.

This should be in the dictionary besides how to insult someone

[Wretch]

Horford at best is Reef, a good guy who doesnt hurt your team but will never be a star. What this past year has shown is that stars win championships.

This is apples and oranges. No team in the NBA starts 5 superstars. Al is not on that 1st tier level. He's not on that 2nd tier either. Those are the guys that win championships. But they do it with guys like Al Horford in the #3 spot. Guys that produce, bring no negatives, and a lot of positives, that are not overpaid. Let's not focus on whether or not Al is untouchable, because even those of us who want to keep him don't think that.Just tell us what's wrong with him. Give us a good reason to trade him...and for whom.

[hawkman]

And Josh's amounts to 15 and 8 yet he has an entire fanclub demanding the whole draft lottery for him. It's a simplistic view, take in more stats but go beyond just that, take in the numerous high accolades, take in the on court and off the court demeanor, take in that he's less talented than either of Josh, Marvin, and Joe yet works consistently harder. Add in that he's the least tenured out of all them yet showed more tangible improvements in a shorter time span in addition to being locked up for 4 more seasons on a very reasonable contract. These are reasons that you say "hmm, just maybe I'll keep that chip off the table just yet". He is quite literally the only positive asset on a much maligned franchise. Marvin is known better as the "guy picked before Deron and Paul", Joe is considered "the worst contract in NBA history", Josh is known more for "ill advised jumpers"( and that is tamest public critique of his decision making) than anything positive he does.Simply put, if you have a franchise swimming in negative rep you just might want to hold onto, if not foster, the only positive rep you got going for it that just so happens to have a very high on court impact as well. Does that make him untouchable? No, but GMs know that the asking price is high enough that a trade may not be feasible.

So to paraphrase, he's overvalued by default? Fair enough.

[hawkman]

This should be in the dictionary besides how to insult someone

Why is that an insult? If Horf averaged 20ppg and 10rpg and had a back to the basket game or ANY of the post moves Reef had I wouldn't question all the 'Horf is untouchable' posts. He would be untouchable IMHO. Maybe my definition of untouchable is different from everyone else?

[MrMeltdown]

Why is that an insult? If Horf averaged 20ppg and 10rpg and had a back to the basket game or ANY of the post moves Reef had I wouldn't question all the 'Horf is untouchable' posts. He would be untouchable IMHO. Maybe my definition of untouchable is different from everyone else?

I assume you value winning. How many playoff teams were a part of Reef's whole career?

[thecampster]

Why is that an insult? If Horf averaged 20ppg and 10rpg and had a back to the basket game or ANY of the post moves Reef had I wouldn't question all the 'Horf is untouchable' posts. He would be untouchable IMHO. Maybe my definition of untouchable is different from everyone else?

If Reef played defense or out of position, I would agree.

[NineOhTheRino]

Seriously, how does a team make it through an entire season without a player and not question if that player is truly necessary?

[Buzzard]

Seriously, how does a team make it through an entire season without a player and not question if that player is truly necessary?

So when does a team "not make it through the season without a player". I have never heard of one folding up shop and quitting mid stream. Seriously did Portland players, fans, and the franchise die or something because they lost Roy and Oden?You are like a drama queen here, no team dies because a player gets hurt. They just keep playing Nine...watch the games, I guarantee you they all play the entire season. Edited June 28, 2012 by Buzzard

[NineOhTheRino]

So when does a team "not make it through the season without a player". I have never heard of one folding up shop and quitting mid stream. Seriously did Portland players, fans, and the franchise die or something because they lost Roy and Oden?You are like a drama queen here, no team dies because a player gets hurt. They just keep playing Nine...watch the games, I guarantee you they all play the entire season.

But the Hawks didn't just make it through the season. The Hawks were able to maintain the same level of competitiveness. Do you think this would have been the case had roles been reversed with Josh being out? I don't think so. Edited June 28, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[willthepureshooter]

But the Hawks didn't just make it through the season. The Hawks were able to maintain the same level of competitiveness. Do you think this would have been the case had roles been reversed with Josh being out? I don't think so.

I total agree with this statement..