Pau Gasol...I'm just not interested.

[Wretch]

First let me say this:

If you're looking at Pau's size, where he plays on the floor, and his numbers...

If you're looking at his championship experience...

If you're looking at how this moves Al to PF...

If you're looking at his salary coming off the books in a 2 years or less...

If you're looking at an expiring piece...

If you're looking at Joe/Al/Pau as our "Big 3"...

I don't have a good response for you. I've said it many times that I don't see a deal for Gasol as a bad deal. However, it's not one that gets me excited. It's not the move that I'd make. I've been trying to figure out just why I don't like this deal, but it's hard to put my finger on. It's really a bunch of things that are affecting my intuition - in a negative way.

When my nerves start acting up about things related to this team and I make a statement, it's usually met with some raised eyebrows and a whole lotta factual rebuttal. I'm usually called some manner of derogatory term...or I'm beaten back by a swarm of DGTFO's (dude...get the f*** out). But it usually turns out the way I think it will. Something about this Gasol talk just doesn't sit right with me. This is what's going on in my head...

1) I'd rather have a draft pick. The deals I've seen over the years, Josh is worth mid to late lottery pick. Hell, BABCOCK of all GM's got Jason Terry at #10 for Mookie. That's the kind of player I'm hoping to pluck for Josh at the worst. Think Dirk, Pierce, Stoudemire, NeNe, Joakim Noah, Luol Deng - this is quality of player is available in that range and YES I'd pursue just the chance of picking a guy like that before dealing Josh for an aging vet. No guarantees we'll get that return and yes, people will try to lowball us, but that's where I would go with a Josh Smith trade and I would ride that all the way to his free agency. He's worth that and a WHOLE lot more if someone can get him to play right.

2) This leads me to the 2nd point. I'm more interested in young talent because it truly starts a new era. I am tired of this streaky, jump shooting team, with no heart, no personality, and no chance of getting out of the 2nd round. It is time to begin a new era. I want a new start now. I'm willing to sacrifice a few years to be relevant later on rather than delay the inevitable. It's time to get younger.

3) Pau is or will shortly be on the decline. This is the deal to make 3-4 years ago, 2 years ago MAX. When you're getting a 28-29 year old Pau, cresting in his prime and just coming down. The contract he's on won't be a factor so we won't have to worry about trotting out 35 to 36 year old Pau, but our guy will be 33 in the final season of his contract. Back courts and wings age more gracefully than front court players. A 30 year old post player has some city miles on him. I'm concerned about a decline in production, injuries, and slowness...

4) He's known for softness. This isn't a rugged post guy. This is a finesse player in his prime and we're going to ADD that to a team that we've called "heartless" and easily pushed around? Dude...

Gasol is tall and can make the hooks and he's got a little jumper. He's got some post up game. He can go glass. All that good stuff. But he's not going to be an enforcer. We will be swapping the athletic energy and attitude on our team, and the guy that saves us countless buckets on the break, for a tall, finesse player who's been called out by Kobe (who is also....more than likely pushing management to trade him). It's not going to be all positives here...

5) Which is the next point. It's not like we're trading a non-productive player. Josh Smith is good for 15-20+ points, about 10 rebounds per game...but you're going to get blocks, steals, and things you just can't measure in a game. In terms of production, this is a wash to me at best. You get some stuff, but you lose some stuff in this too. You get dedicated post scoring and less BS (bad shots/turnovers), but you're going to lose some major intangibles. Does that really spell "championship?"

In a couple of years maybe? When we build the team right? When Gasol IS on the decline or a free agent?

6) Lastly, and this should be a MAJOR red flag. I see someone started a thread on this already, but I started on this way earlier in the day...but anyway...the Lakers are trying to get rid of Pau and they'd be delighted to get Smoove. The team that plays for the big games is trying to get this player from US. That same team is offering the piece that they want to get rid of. Am I the ONLY one that is bothered by this? Where's the Josh/Bynum talk? Pfft...yeah right?

Y'know...why can't we ever be on the upside of these guys? Why does it always have to be Moses Malone, TMac, Stackhouse, Antoine Walker, Reggie Theus....on the tail end of their career? What worries me is the way Ferry put those teams together in Cleveland. Pau looks like a decent fit on paper...as I'm sure Shaq, Hughes, and Wallace did to support LeBron.

I just don't see us getting any closer to the top with Pau. I'd rather start over or at least get the ball rolling.

[Wretch]

...and I have to correct myself a bit, because we don't really know that LA wants Josh, or that we're in talks or anything for Gasol. But if LA were willing to make this swap, it would be a red flag to me. I honestly don't know how they make deals with anybody...unless they got some NBA strong arm help........

[Diesel]

I call this the predraft night hype.Honestly, this draft is not so strong. You have a lot of guys with good physiques but no motivation. You have a lot of guys in this draft with nothing. Whenever I hear the Houston trade, this is what goes through my mind.... There's going to be a lot of guys who don't turn out in this draft. But what we know about Paul. Double double guy... Good footwork. Low post guy. Everything we have been needing.And if we can get a future first with that... Great deal.

[ATLscrubLove]

I agree Pau is on the decline in his career, he isn't terrible and would be a good addition to the team for the short term. He would probably just be a one year rental so I definitely see your point. Id rather trade with Houston and get a couple picks plus a filler than get Pau. But either way it's all good to me.

[Wretch]

I call this the predraft night hype.Honestly, this draft is not so strong. You have a lot of guys with good physiques but no motivation. You have a lot of guys in this draft with nothing. Whenever I hear the Houston trade, this is what goes through my mind....There's going to be a lot of guys who don't turn out in this draft. But what we know about Paul. Double double guy... Good footwork. Low post guy. Everything we have been needing.And if we can get a future first with that... Great deal.

2013 - Top 5 protected..., 2014 - Unprotected..., etc....Just sayin' man. And hell, it doesn't have to be a draft pick. GIve me a young guy. Shit...give me a young-ISH guy with some upside and some question marks. I just don't think older is the answer.I don't see one player and one year as the difference...especially not Pau.

[MaceCase]

Wretch.......you are missing the greatest reason why a Gasol trade makes sense.

Joe Johnson

You do not invest that kind of money and limited capspace on a player and then go cheap or decide to wait on conditional picks in order to support him. It's the notion that a lot of fanboys can't reconcile:

It's not just about getting the best value for Josh but the best value for the money you have invested in Joe and the rest of the team.

If Joe could be easily whiped off the face of the Earth in a poof of stripper dust then you don't consider a deal like this but since he can't then you have to consider deals to maximize the value of the team and the amount you have already invested in it. Because of Joe no realistic rebuild plan can be considered until he's out the way so you might as well do your best to win as many games as possible with him.......Pau achieves that in droves. I personally don't like it as a fan as well but as a logical human being I understand full well why it's a deal that needs to be considered. Put that emotional voice in your head in a box and ungag the analytical "I told you so" voice that you hate but has been right about every thing so far in your life.

[atlbraves93]

Pau is S-O-F-T, soft

[EazyRoc]

I'm not interested because we won't win in the East with just Gasol. Gasol is a high post player who can , but is often unwilling to play down low. He doesn't really have the mentality to be a #1 option which many are hoping he would be. He's very skilled though and I like just about every part of his game, but I question his heart and focus. If this is who we move Josh for, we might as well start trying to build a veteran team to make a run. Trading Horford and Teague both. We already have serious depth issues. 2 guys making that much money means we bring back a full vet minimum bench.

[Johnnybravo4]

I agree, where is our Shaq for Odom and Butler deal? Why couldnt we trade Horf and Marvin for Howard? Why is it that we are the only large market team that cant pull off big trades. I mean the celtics turned Al Jefferson and filler into the Big 3 and a title. Smoove is as good as Jefferson or Odom was then..

[Johnnybravo4]

I agree, where is our Shaq for Odom and Butler deal? Why couldnt we trade Horf and Marvin for Howard? Why is it that we are the only large market team that cant pull off big trades. I mean the celtics turned Al Jefferson and filler into the Big 3 and a title. Smoove is as good as Jefferson or Odom was then..

[Diesel]

Pau is S-O-F-T, soft

So is Smoove. However, Pau knows how to play down low... We have no scores from down low. Pau is almost automatic down there. DO you know what that will do for our shooters?Pau is Soft... BUT... Pau gets double doubles. And Pau goes to Allstar games. And these are things that Josh at his best couldn't accomplish... JUST don't give up the pick.

[Buzzard]

First let me say this:

If you're looking at Pau's size, where he plays on the floor, and his numbers...

If you're looking at his championship experience...

If you're looking at how this moves Al to PF...

If you're looking at his salary coming off the books in a 2 years or less...

If you're looking at an expiring piece...

If you're looking at Joe/Al/Pau as our "Big 3"...

6) Lastly, and this should be a MAJOR red flag. I see someone started a thread on this already, but I started on this way earlier in the day...but anyway...the Lakers are trying to get rid of Pau and they'd be delighted to get Smoove. The team that plays for the big games is trying to get this player from US. That same team is offering the piece that they want to get rid of. Am I the ONLY one that is bothered by this? Where's the Josh/Bynum talk? Pfft...yeah right?

You missed the boat with this. The lakeshow is trying to move Gasol but if you look back it involved a hell of a lot better player in CP3 than Josh Smith. There is also another rumor they want to move Gasol to get into the high lottery.

Now here is where you REALLY missed the boat: we want to move Josh for Gasol is the report. We contacted them not the other way around. For all we know the Lakers have zero interest in a tweener PF.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Buzzard

[Sothron]

I've always been and still remain a Gasol fan so I'd love to see him here. What we don't know or at best can only get some second hand information from is what kind of deals are Ferry/Sund getting for Josh. Here's the real dilemma for Ferry now:Do you trade for Gasol and hope the next two years we have a break through in the playoffs because a Joe/Gasol/Horford team up is a LOT more balanced offensively than with Josh? You have probably three years left of prime Joe and probably two years left of prime Gasol. If you get Gasol and it doesn't work out hey no biggie, his deal is up in two years. You let him walk or resign him for WAY cheaper. You also at that point either amnesty Joe or trade him if possible. That would leave the Hawks with gigantic cap space in two years.Do you refuse to trade Josh for anything but draft pick(s) and decide to start over? Do you try very hard to trade Joe NOW and if it doesn't work do you amnesty him NOW and look at a probable three year rebuilding window with Horford as your main man? As a fresh GM with all the control do you really want your first years be spent rebuilding from scratch and hoping draft picks pan out?That IMO is the only real question we have and Ferry alone knows the answer.

[Mutombolievable]

I am thinking about this trade from the other side. Think about Mike Brown coaching his bigs. A Bynum + Smith frontcourt would be insanely talented but will either ever reach their full potential? I bet Mike Brown would lose his mind coaching two big men that like to shoot threes.They have the same brain in different bodies!http://sports.yahoo....benching_032812On the flip side it makes our front court very smart. Two coachable bigs with multiple all-star appearances that know and play to their strengths (even if Gasol likes to float away from the basket every once in a while.)

Edited June 28, 2012 by Mutombolievable

[Vol4ever]

My take on the Gasol Issue................Age - I know the age issue thing is being tossed about as a negative - I guess I would just have to point to Kevin Garnett? Wasnt he really good in the playoffs? Isnt he a lot older than Gasol? How about Tim Duncan? The age argument doesnt fly with me.Gasol - Some have suggested that Pau is a high post player? What, have you looked at his FT numbers? Pau is a top three league low post player. Gasol is a legit 7-0 and is a good post defender. Gasol is the low post player we havent had since Danny Roundfield or John Drew. Josh is a high BBIQ player.Josh - Very athletic player, good on defense as far as the wing and help defense, Josh is NOT a low post defender, he is just too small and doesnt have the bulk to defend down low. Josh can run the court and has the ability to fill the lane on the break, problem is he wants to bring the ball up and create turnovers. Josh has a low BBIQ. Josh is known around the league as a tough player to coach. I would do the Gasol deal in a heartbeat.This all being said..........I dont think the Lakers would trade Gasol for Josh Smith. The only reason the Lakers are considering a trade of Gasol is the fact that Bynum and Gasol are both low post players and are getting in each others way stagnating the offense. Bynum is younger so it makes sense to send out Gasol, but again I dont think the Lakers would do this deal unless the Hawks throw in the draft picks and another player. Josh just does not have the value around the league that fans on this site thinks he has. Josh is not a upper tier player in this league.

[benhillboy]

Never been a fan of Pau, but respect his skill set a great deal. He maximizes our best player and restores him to his natural position where 20-10, well over 50% shooting, and the ability to defend his position over the long haul are possible and expected. It gets Tito to shut up as well. I Iove good interior passing between big men, and a Pau/ Horford tandem would be among tops in the league. It's been a long time since we've had two players next to each other in position with above average BBIQ.

Edited June 28, 2012 by benhillboy

[Wretch]

A good tech support story one of my bigwigs told me a long time ago...shortened:Issue with the computer. Tough issue. Confusing issue. The entire department gets on this thing, high level dudes that have spent years in their roles. Senior level dudes. It's an amazing problem...everybody is stumped. Customer is waiting on the machine and is told to be patient - they'll get it fixed. A bigwig, who was not so much of a bigwig at the time, walked in and snatched the computer when nobody was looking. He brought it back and it ran perfectly, much to the surprise of everybody. They asked what he did... He told them that while they were trying to break the problem down, patch it up, implementing solutions, and bumping heads etc., etc. He backed up the data and reimaged it (reimage is a wipe and rebuild for the non-computer savvy).This team is complicated and many of you want to over complicate it with players that are not going to make it noticeably better. We would be better served with a wipe and rebuild. Not necessarily overnight, but sooner than later. Joe is owed a lot of money? Matters not. It's not about Joe's contract, it's about the future. Change the team now and get something for what you have...before they become free agents.The little voices in my head told me to draft Chris Paul, when everyone wanted to tell me he was too short. The little voices also told me that Woodson should be let go, because we couldn't clinch our first playoff berth. The facts said that we were just a young team and that Woodson just needed more time with the group. The facts told me that Mookie/Smitty/Deke just needed a SF and that we could beat Chicago. The intuition kicked in when fans from around the league told me how boring my team was and how they wouldn't do much of anything. The intuition screeched when Babcock traded our draft picks, the popular opinion (because we had never been in the draft) was only concerned about playoffs and winning. The intuition told me that major changes were needed after the worst blowout loss in NBA history, people said...one more year....one more season...PG...big...defense...we don't know if this is the ceiling of this team, etc.This needs to be a different team. We need to start that now and not wait. Because we WILL start it in 3 - 4 years, when we've only got 2 more seasons of guaranteed play in Atlanta. If we don't start retooling now...then I'll see you all then and ask you how this push for the ECF's works out.