Can't Make A Sanwich Without A Couple Slices

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Y'all keep assuming what Ferry or players are going to do but you can only take what's given. He hasn't maxed out Harden, or Lin or Asik for that matter. Why would you assume he'd get rid of a contract like JJ's just to add another large over paying contract.

The team we have right now is just the effects of making major trades. Ferry's first goal was to clear cap space not only for this offseason, but for next offseason. The hate would be justified if he sent a max deal to get Harden or somebody after just clearing the books of JJ. Ferry has a plan and a backup plan... IFWT

As far as this city this isn't the Pete Babcock days anymore. People like Jamal, McGrady, Stackhouse saw that this team was no longer a joke and moving in the right direction. Tracy and Jerry want rings now at this stage in their career and they choose to come here. We seen that with the Lakers and Celtics but the Hawks are slowly but surely entering a new era!!

This is the part that gets me... Most of the uncertainty of the future of the Hawks that comes Hawks fans have comes from them inaccurately using what the Hawks have done in the past. Sure its still the ASG that owns the team, but they have given COMPLETE control of basketball operations over to a capable GM in Ferry. No other Hawks GM has had that in the past. Ferry isn't complacent and will not accept mediocrity. It's title or bust with him. Oh, Tracy and Stack came to the Hawks because they couldn't get on another roster, not because they believe that we were a winner... Also, they come cheap at this point in their careers, especially with the injuries that they have... Currently, Stack is the 12th guy on the Nets bench and Tracy can't find a job.

Atlanta is a desirable city anyway. No one was jumping up and down for the Heat at a time but it's a desirable destination if Management proves it is consistently about winning!!

Atlanta has always been a place that people want to live. I've lived there before and love it 10x's more than where I am currently located. There are also a lot of NBA'ers that live in Atlanta, such as CP3, Dwight, and Bynum, but no one has ever wanted to play for the Hawks because we were either so sorry that they saw no future with us or they see that management is ran by a bunch of monkeys. Now that the FO has been renovated and ownership has backed off, the Hawks become a desirable team to play for.

[Guest Walter]

Let me ask you this..

If JJ's contract on Brooklyn's team doesn't stop them from being a competitive team.. what exactly does that say about us?

Everybody blames JJ's contract on all of our woes in the playoffs, etc. However, What about Marvin's contract? What about Hinrich's contract? What about Zaza's contract? What about Smoove's contract.

The problem is that as fans, we pick our favorites and we keep them off to the side as untouchable. The best contract we have is Horford's. However, even without Horford we were a 60% winning team. Some of these other contracts should have come under fire before Joe's. Sure Joe's is the biggest impact contract, but we will see how that price in paid in Chemistry.

I love it when you argue with yourself and lose. Classic Diesel.

W

[Diesel]

I'm still really not seeing a lot of your points. All the contracts add up, sure. The point is are you going to continue to build around the guy who is the oldest and has the biggest, escalating contract when the team that was centered on him for years is showing signs of decline? Who says the Hawks weren't competitive with Joe. We just weren't good enough. I say ignore everything else and ask if this team was making money? If you have a team that the fans don't care about then as an owner i try something new.

The reason why we were not good enough was not Joe. It was definitely something else. Probably the fact that we don't have a real C and the C we have want to be PF and the PF we have want to be SG. Check out KG's game 6. We let a 40 yr old man come in put up 28, 14, and 2 with 5 blocks and shooting 50% and somehow Joe gets blamed?? The Blame goes to whoever built this team's frontcourt because Frontcourt wise, we have a lot of glitz, but nothing playoff winning worthy.

[Diesel]

Y'all keep assuming what Ferry or players are going to do but you can only take what's given. He hasn't maxed out Harden, or Lin or Asik for that matter. Why would you assume he'd get rid of a contract like JJ's just to add another large over paying contract. As far as this city this isn't the Pete Babcock days anymore. People like Jamal, McGrady, Stackhouse saw that this team was no longer a joke and moving in the right direction. Tracy and Jerry want rings now at this stage in their career and they choose to come here. We seen that with the Lakers and Celtics but the Hawks are slowly but surely entering a new era!! Atlanta is a desirable city anyway. No one was jumping up and down for the Heat at a time but it's a desirable destination if Management proves it is consistently about winning!!

You're right. We keep suggesting that Ferry will max out a mediocre player. OK. What do yout think his options are. You're believing the Ferrytale that he will bring in Dwight or CP3 or is it Bynum now? About these Ferrytales, what happens to Josh? Are we going to let him walk? The problem is that with the Ferrytale, everybody gets all giddy and think that Ferry is going to do some great Move and bring in Racer X. The problem is that Racer X doesn't want to be a Hawk. Name 1 time when Dwight has said he'd consider Atlanta. After we traded Joe and Marvin and we had capspace for days... Name one time when D-12 said if he were picked up by Atlanta, he'd resign here? Name one time when he said he'd consider Atlanta in his top 5 or 10 destinations? I have heard Paul say that he wanted to play in Atlanta. After the World Games a few years past, he said, I would have loved to be drafted by the Hawks and play with Joe Johnson. Obviously Deron felt the same way. However, the Ferrytale is that if we clear capspace and talk about making things different, FAs will break down the door... Which ones? I have suggested Smoove and Harden for max contracts. That's not an insult. Harden is the third rated FA coming out next year. The only way you will get him from OKC is with a max deal. Smoove is our own FA...he's being made the face of Atlanta. We won't lose him for nothing and he won't stay for less than the max. So what is really your objection? That I used two very likely scenerios? Would you rather I said that Ferry is going to Sweet talk Dwight into coming home? Ferry is going to Drag Dwight away from LaLA land and make him forget about promised riches in Brooklyn?? Welcome to Atlanta.

[Diesel]

I love it when you argue with yourself and lose. Classic Diesel. W

Mathwise, Joe's contract gives us the most capspace. But Capspace has never won a game? Moreover, in Atlanta, Capspace is about as meaningful as a peanut butter and pickle sandwich. If you were in the dessert dying of thirst and somebody gave you 1 Million dollars for one of your last bottles of water.... That's what capspace is to the Hawks. Sure you got more money... but this money means nothing.

[macdaddy]

The reason why we were not good enough was not Joe. It was definitely something else. Probably the fact that we don't have a real C and the C we have want to be PF and the PF we have want to be SG. Check out KG's game 6. We let a 40 yr old man come in put up 28, 14, and 2 with 5 blocks and shooting 50% and somehow Joe gets blamed??

The Blame goes to whoever built this team's frontcourt because Frontcourt wise, we have a lot of glitz, but nothing playoff winning worthy.

Maybe some blame can go to Joe? He wasn't without responsibility was he? Game 6 he shot 7-17 with 1 rebound and 2 assists....in 44 minutes. I have a hard time saying Joe wasn't partially responsible for that loss. Frankly I don't see how a 6'8" guy can play 44 minutes and have only one rebound not fall in his hands. Teague had 4. McGrady had 2 in 14 minutes.

Anyway, i'm not here to bash Joe. I love Joe. I just don't understand how the star and best player of our team, the guy we can't live without bears no responsibility for the teams problems.

[Sothron]

I wish we had training camp sooner so we can actually talk about the team we have versus a guy that was traded.

[macdaddy]

I wish we had training camp sooner so we can actually talk about the team we have versus a guy that was traded.

I agree with you despite my posts on the subject. Here's a question though. Who thinks we'll start the season with the team we have now vs. september trades? I'm thinking there will be one relatively minor trade before the season and a lot at the midway point.

[NekiEcko]

macdaddy,I think the trades might depend on where the Hawks is at on the playoff hunt, I think if the Hawks is out of the playoff race then they will be complete sellers but if they are in the playoff hunt and comfort about where they are at, then you might see alittle bit action.At the end of the day, this team finally have choice of where to go in this. This team havent had this much financial freedom since the 80's and 90's. People needs to be patience about this and remember, this team also get revune (sp?) sharing because they are under the salary cap next year(I think).

[TheFuzz]

macdaddy, I think the trades might depend on where the Hawks is at on the playoff hunt, I think if the Hawks is out of the playoff race then they will be complete sellers but if they are in the playoff hunt and comfort about where they are at, then you might see alittle bit action. At the end of the day, this team finally have choice of where to go in this. This team havent had this much financial freedom since the 80's and 90's. People needs to be patience about this and remember, this team also get revune (sp?) sharing because they are under the salary cap next year(I think).

I'm pretty sure we're just over the salary cap.

[TheFuzz]

You're right. We keep suggesting that Ferry will max out a mediocre player. OK. What do yout think his options are. You're believing the Ferrytale that he will bring in Dwight or CP3 or is it Bynum now? About these Ferrytales, what happens to Josh? Are we going to let him walk? The problem is that with the Ferrytale, everybody gets all giddy and think that Ferry is going to do some great Move and bring in Racer X. The problem is that Racer X doesn't want to be a Hawk. Name 1 time when Dwight has said he'd consider Atlanta. After we traded Joe and Marvin and we had capspace for days... Name one time when D-12 said if he were picked up by Atlanta, he'd resign here? Name one time when he said he'd consider Atlanta in his top 5 or 10 destinations? I have heard Paul say that he wanted to play in Atlanta. After the World Games a few years past, he said, I would have loved to be drafted by the Hawks and play with Joe Johnson. Obviously Deron felt the same way. However, the Ferrytale is that if we clear capspace and talk about making things different, FAs will break down the door... Which ones? I have suggested Smoove and Harden for max contracts. That's not an insult. Harden is the third rated FA coming out next year. The only way you will get him from OKC is with a max deal. Smoove is our own FA...he's being made the face of Atlanta. We won't lose him for nothing and he won't stay for less than the max. So what is really your objection? That I used two very likely scenerios? Would you rather I said that Ferry is going to Sweet talk Dwight into coming home? Ferry is going to Drag Dwight away from LaLA land and make him forget about promised riches in Brooklyn?? Welcome to Atlanta.

You're right. At least in the short term, very few free agents will be knocking down the door to play for us. However, we now have a ridiculously large amount of expiring contracts. We can use those expirings to trade for players on longer contracts, who have no choice but to stay with us. Then we can convince them and the rest of the league that we're worth playing for. We could, for example, use our expiring contracts to snag Rudy Gay, Gallinari, Marc Gasol, a couple of the Rockets extra players. Maybe we can snag Pau for pure expirings. We have a lot of options, and I bet you that we will be involved in trade talks pretty much whenever someone is on the block.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Maybe some blame can go to Joe? He wasn't without responsibility was he? Game 6 he shot 7-17 with 1 rebound and 2 assists....in 44 minutes. I have a hard time saying Joe wasn't partially responsible for that loss. Frankly I don't see how a 6'8" guy can play 44 minutes and have only one rebound not fall in his hands. Teague had 4. McGrady had 2 in 14 minutes.

Anyway, i'm not here to bash Joe. I love Joe. I just don't understand how the star and best player of our team, the guy we can't live without bears no responsibility for the teams problems.

He doesn't get part of the blame because he didn't rebound. He gets part of the blame because after having a fabulous 3rd quarter to keep us in that game, he flat out disappeared in the 4th quarter. He didn't score in the quarter and only attempted 3 shots. Someone needed to help Horford out that quarter, because he was the only dude doing anything offensively for the Hawks. But JJ nor Smith didn't do it.

But here's Diesel's point though.

Garnett in the final 3 quarters of that game:

25 pts ( 9 - 14 FG ) - 13 rebs - 5 blks

He destroyed us. And we had no one on the team who could slow him down. Not even the guy who is the "face of the franchise" now.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I agree with you despite my posts on the subject. Here's a question though. Who thinks we'll start the season with the team we have now vs. september trades? I'm thinking there will be one relatively minor trade before the season and a lot at the midway point.

My question is .. . why did Ferry horde all of these guards in the first place? If the "plan" all along was to get rid of JJ and Marvin, why not target a SF instead of Lou Williams? Why draft John Jenkins instead of Jeff Taylor? Or is this Ferry simply being "opportunistic" to get rid of those two, no matter who we brought in? It's obvious that you, and some of the other fans ( including myself ), do not like the fact that we have 938,000 guards on this team. So now you're expecting some September trades? All I know is that everybody that people are expecting contributions out of, is not going to be able to play. Or if they do play, it'll be for limited minutes. And we're going to see how long the experiment of playing Devin Harris/Lou Williams at the 2 will last. Or if they don't play the 2 for significant minutes, how they will cut into Teague's playing time at the 1. Ferry says he wants to be "opportunistic" in the way he builds the Hawks. That's fine. I like that approach. But the two trades we've done so far had more to do with teams contacting us and wanting a player that we had, than us approaching a team to get a player that we wanted. Brooklyn wanted JJ and Utah wanted Marvin. So we'll see when Ferry actually trades for a player he wants, how that player fits with the team. As of right now though, Ferry has targeted and acquired 4 players himself - John Jenkins - Mike Scott - Lou Williams - Kyle Korver Edited August 15, 2012 by northcyde

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Josh Smith playing SF might be a potential recipe for disaster, or it could be a potential boon, but Josh at PF is a tried and true recipe for mediocrity. Tried and true my friend

As for you sir, how about creating a video clip with Josh Smith playing CENTER . . because his production when he plays center is actually HIGHER at that position, than it is when he plays PF or C. And that's on offense AND defense. http://www.82games.com/1112/11ATL12.HTM#bypos