Can't Make A Sanwich Without A Couple Slices

[sillent]

I'm not one that begged for a Ferry statue. At the same time I don't understand the hate. He made our team flexible while keeping the three players with the most potential. He didn't sign any bad contracts or add any horrible players. Even his questionable draft pick is proving to be worth something. Who knows Jenkins can be the next Ray Allen!! He added players that will keep us competitive until he can make the next worthwhile move. He understands the NBA being a player and working in the front office for prestige (during his tenure) franchises. Now is the time to hold off judgement until the season starts or pick a new team if you can't get over Joe.Honestly the Nets have become what we were the past couple of years to a lesser extent. Joe is still aging as well as Gerald Wallace. Deron is not as top tier as people believe. Marshon Brooks might not be able to duplicate his rookie success with Joe holding him back.We are still arguably( I wouldn't argue but some might) the 2nd best team in our division. We didn't sell the house at a horrible price(see Houston). We haven't reached for stars or to retain our own players like Pacers/Blazers. We are in great position to be good for a long time as we have retained our young core and are in position to get better via draft,free agency and trades.How can a sane mind argue against that? Do we truly believe we could have gotten better following the status quo with a declining but high salary Joe?I can name atleast 15 franchises that I'm happy were not and I still believe we are better than atleast 20 of them. The only teams that clearly look better than the rest of the league are the Lakers, Heat and Thunder. Both of the New York teams went thru alot of trouble for their team still to be viewed as 2nd tier. Celtics and Spurs are still old although you can't count them out. Clippers are the true cursed Franchise in the league although Chicago might be feeling that way now. Grizzlies cursed themselves with the basketball gods. Teams that drastically improved on paper like the Wolves have to prove it on court. Some East teams like Pistons, Washington and Milwaukee will get better but will they be better than us? Miami, Boston, 76ers, Pacers and the New York teams are currently the only ones truly considered playoff locks in our conference which leaves 2 to 3 spots available(if you want to include Chicago). I still think we're better than the Nets but we'll see. It's a long season though and anything could happen that could change the fate of these franchises and there seeding.All in all yes we did get rid of a star for flexibility at most but if we make it to the playoffs we would have pretty much accomplished what the team would have with contract heavy Joe. Until players like Dwight, Bynum and Chris Paul have signed long term contracts they are still available for teams with cap space. Although L.A. might be a desirable destination their cap might not allow them to keep their "dream team" together and if it's enough drama in Hollywood it could push Dwight closer home. Even if we don't get any of these players their are plenty of potentially great players out there that would shine in the right situation.What has Ferry done so wrong or to hurt our Franchise? Until this is proven or explained I won't understand the hate!!

[Seano]

Kudos, ditto, good post, and I agree. I think the Dwight to the Lakers deal has just ramped up the sky is falling crowd to entirely new heights of melodrama and angst around here, despite every indication to the contrary leading to the inescapable conclusion that if there was anywhere Dwight was *not* going to end up, that would be here. Nonetheless, people are freaking...I dunno. As much as I appreciated (for the most part) Joe Johnson's tenure here, I was greatly relieved to find us rid of that millstone of a contract which would only weigh further as he ages and becomes less effective, but yet the dollar amount keeps going up just the same. That contract was burdensome enough as signed and to begin with, as it basically made us married to Joe as well as totally hindered our flexibility and ability to make other moves, and with the dollar amounts going up and Joe getting even older, then for me that leads to..."Sayonara, Joe! See ya! Thanks for the memories, and good luck in Brooklyn."I'm just happy to be rid of it.As for the Chicken Little's clucking chaotically and the Negative Nelly's pissing in everyone's cornflakes around here, well let them do their thing. There's no point in doing otherwise, because they're going to do what they do anyway. They'll moan about how Ferry's an idiot, how he's got no clue, yadda yadda yadda and blah blah blah, because that is their mentality and that's the role.Doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me, as I don't stress it anyway. I'm just enjoying my summer, looking forward to the resumption of NBA basketball, and seeing what the future might bring.

[hazer]

The Chicken Littles and Negative Nellys, and there are a lot of them around here, have an overwhelming need to rain on any parade. And they look for any and every opportunity to do so, I suppose it's an outlet for the way their lives are going. If you expect the worst, you'll never be disappointed I guess. The ignore option is a very powerful tool

[Sothron]

Ferry has done a good job in trading Joe and keeping us with flexibility in the future. The key question is what will he do with that flexibility. If we settle on signing B level guys then we're just right back to where we were before. And as much as I love Joe I'm more than glad his contract is off our hands. We had zero movement under the cap with that deal hanging over our heads.

[DrReality]

I'm hopeful that the asg has leArned their lesson and the need to let ferry do his thing and not mettle. If that's true that's cause for optimism

[TheNorthCydeRises]

People keep talking about this contract keeping the Hawks from doing things. That contract did no such thing. Stop blaming the contract for the lack of Hawk progress. The lack of progress falls straight on management.Bottom line is that if you want the Hawks to be a "championship level" team, they need to start doing "championship level" type moves. You don't pay a coach the lowest salary in the league. You don't hire a GM that was a failure in his previous job. You don't be so deathly against going over the Luxury Tax, it prohibits you from bringing in a higher quality player ( or keeping one ).The fact is that people are looking at what JJ will make in the future, but he isn't even making over 20 million yet. Even if he were making 15 million, the Hawks STILL wouldn't be far enough under the cap for them to get a significant player.Just stop blaming the contract for the reason why this team "can't" or "won't" get to the next level. A contract like that does not stop a team SERIOUS about building a contender.Getting rid of the contract is fine. Now . . what can he do ( or will do ) with his contract off the books? Bringing in guys like Kyle Korver and counting on Anthony Morrow to play "winning basketball", are moves that don't impress me one bit. Ferry talks about assembling a team that can move the ball and play defense. But he's brought in guys who may can shoot, but can't play a lick of defense.But hey, we got the "contract" off the books, so people are cool with anything . . whether it be lack of defense . . lack of a go-to scorer . . or even losing itself. The "contract" is gone, so it's OK if we take a step, or two, or three back . . because we HOPE we can get above where we used to be.I think some of you just want people like myself and Diesel to simply "shut up", because the Hawks finally made some changes. I can't speak for Diesel, but the fact that Ferry STILL hasn't adequately addressed the SF issue, while hoarding all of these guards, is a red flag to me. Because if that's the case, it means that Smith will be playing SF this year. And that's a potential recipe for disaster.But no worries. We got "the contract" off the books, so who cares how the Hawks play this year.

[AHF]

Ferry nailed it when he said that the core from last year was a core that made a lot of playoff runs but didn't have any good playoff runs. (I.e., never competitive even in round 2). There was nothing to indicate that was going to change and JJ's contract absolutely did prevent us from being able to do anything more than play with the MLE and would have made it a challenge to retain guys like Teague if they blossomed. The only other move was trading one of the core players, something prior management was reluctant to do and something that would be a challenge to do in a way that would be a windfall in the sense of Iggy for a healthy Bynum.I like the thinking that things had to change in order to break the cycle of early playoff exits and that management is not satisfied with WLOC basketball.

Edited August 14, 2012 by AHF

[macdaddy]

People keep talking about this contract keeping the Hawks from doing things. That contract did no such thing. Stop blaming the contract for the lack of Hawk progress. The lack of progress falls straight on management.

Bottom line is that if you want the Hawks to be a "championship level" team, they need to start doing "championship level" type moves. You don't pay a coach the lowest salary in the league. You don't hire a GM that was a failure in his previous job. You don't be so deathly against going over the Luxury Tax, it prohibits you from bringing in a higher quality player ( or keeping one ).

The fact is that people are looking at what JJ will make in the future, but he isn't even making over 20 million yet. Even if he were making 15 million, the Hawks STILL wouldn't be far enough under the cap for them to get a significant player.

Just stop blaming the contract for the reason why this team "can't" or "won't" get to the next level. A contract like that does not stop a team SERIOUS about building a contender.

Getting rid of the contract is fine. Now . . what can he do ( or will do ) with his contract off the books?

Bringing in guys like Kyle Korver and counting on Anthony Morrow to play "winning basketball", are moves that don't impress me one bit. Ferry talks about assembling a team that can move the ball and play defense. But he's brought in guys who may can shoot, but can't play a lick of defense.

But hey, we got the "contract" off the books, so people are cool with anything . . whether it be lack of defense . . lack of a go-to scorer . . or even losing itself. The "contract" is gone, so it's OK if we take a step, or two, or three back . . because we HOPE we can get above where we used to be.

I think some of you just want people like myself and Diesel to simply "shut up", because the Hawks finally made some changes. I can't speak for Diesel, but the fact that Ferry STILL hasn't adequately addressed the SF issue, while hoarding all of these guards, is a red flag to me. Because if that's the case, it means that Smith will be playing SF this year. And that's a potential recipe for disaster.

But no worries. We got "the contract" off the books, so who cares how the Hawks play this year.

People are happy about what Ferry has done but i think you and Diesel are blowing out of proportion the number of people who think Ferry is the greatest gm ever. No one has said that.

But the Red Flag you speak of seems really irrational to me. So he was supposed to assemble a great team for the future in two months? He can't even trade any of these guards yet so how do you propose he gets this SF and gets rid of these chuckers right now? I can understand being concerned with the direction but after years of ASG screw ups at least someone has the reins now.

[Guest]

Ferry has done a good job in trading Joe and keeping us with flexibility in the future. The key question is what will he do with that flexibility. If we settle on signing B level guys then we're just right back to where we were before. And as much as I love Joe I'm more than glad his contract is off our hands. We had zero movement under the cap with that deal hanging over our heads.

I don't neccesarily have a problem with signing B-Level guys at B-Level money...what I don't want is signing B-Level guys at A-Level money, that would be disastrous. If is one thing I've learned over my years watching bball is you need A-Level talent and decent role players to win championships.

[AHF]

People are happy about what Ferry has done but i think you and Diesel are blowing out of proportion the number of people who think Ferry is the greatest gm ever. No one has said that.

I am pretty unimpressed with what he did in Cleveland and I am skeptical of his first draft. I am hopeful based on the idea of trying to import the SAS model (vastly superior infrastructure to our prior one) but the jury is definitely still out for myself and many others on the Squawk.

[Guest]

Of course the jury is still out - it's been two months. WE all know the team as constructed is not winning a championship next year.

[Diesel]

If all cap flexibility means is more money to give to Josh for doing the same thing he's been doing and money to pick up a guy with less talent than Joe... what was the point?None of you who are happy with Ferry right now can point to anybody who Ferry has or is targeting and say that or those players will make us championship calibre.Instead, you have this notion that Ferry will do what you want him to do and bring in this no name star from parts unknown, weight unknown.But when you get down to the brass tax. This is Still Atlanta. We can't even get our hometown savior to come home.You guys believe that cap flexibility means that Guys will want to come here and play for us. Check the History. That has never happened. Guys want to come here and buy houses. They want to come here and go to the strip club.. but nobody wants to come here and play for our organization.I'm afraid you will have to learn the hard way that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Diesel]

Ferry nailed it when he said that the core from last year was a core that made a lot of playoff runs but didn't have any good playoff runs. (I.e., never competitive even in round 2). There was nothing to indicate that was going to change and JJ's contract absolutely did prevent us from being able to do anything more than play with the MLE and would have made it a challenge to retain guys like Teague if they blossomed. The only other move was trading one of the core players, something prior management was reluctant to do and something that would be a challenge to do in a way that would be a windfall in the sense of Iggy for a healthy Bynum. I like the thinking that things had to change in order to break the cycle of early playoff exits and that management is not satisfied with WLOC basketball.

Let me ask you this.. If JJ's contract on Brooklyn's team doesn't stop them from being a competitive team.. what exactly does that say about us? Everybody blames JJ's contract on all of our woes in the playoffs, etc. However, What about Marvin's contract? What about Hinrich's contract? What about Zaza's contract? What about Smoove's contract. The problem is that as fans, we pick our favorites and we keep them off to the side as untouchable. The best contract we have is Horford's. However, even without Horford we were a 60% winning team. Some of these other contracts should have come under fire before Joe's. Sure Joe's is the biggest impact contract, but we will see how that price in paid in Chemistry.

[Sothron]

I don't neccesarily have a problem with signing B-Level guys at B-Level money...what I don't want is signing B-Level guys at A-Level money, that would be disastrous. If is one thing I've learned over my years watching bball is you need A-Level talent and decent role players to win championships.

That's part of the problem in today's NBA though. There is no absolutely no more bargains to be had unless you convince guys to resign for less or take less to pair up with other (like the Heat did). Look at the contracts handed out just this last offseason. Asik is going to average around 8 million a year. Asik for crying out loud! Guys like Jefferson, Harden, those guys will get max deals from someone. I just hope Ferry avoids that kind of thinking. As you said, you need SUPERstars to win not just stars.

[AHF]

Let me ask you this.. If JJ's contract on Brooklyn's team doesn't stop them from being a competitive team.. what exactly does that say about us?

It does inhibit them from upgrading their team and I don't think they are contenders. That said, it primarily says they added JJ as a piece to compliment a substantially superior player whereas JJ was expected to be our best player. I would have loved to see JJ and Dwight play together, for example.

Everybody blames JJ's contract on all of our woes in the playoffs, etc. However, What about Marvin's contract? What about Hinrich's contract? What about Zaza's contract? What about Smoove's contract.

JJ's subpar play in the playoffs is part of what made his contract tough to stomach. As for your questions: Marvin's contract was a problem Hinrich's wasn't (it was expiring and could have been unloaded) Zaza's contract was submarket and a good deal and didn't hurt us at all Smoove's contract was good value, short as of this past post-season, and didn't hurt us in constructing the team In fact, JJ's contract was hurt but didn't hurt that badly last season. Every year, however, it will hurt worse.

The problem is that as fans, we pick our favorites and we keep them off to the side as untouchable. The best contract we have is Horford's. However, even without Horford we were a 60% winning team. Some of these other contracts should have come under fire before Joe's. Sure Joe's is the biggest impact contract, but we will see how that price in paid in Chemistry.

From a contract perspective, none of them are comparable to Joe's as far as restricting our ability to acquire other players.

[macdaddy]

Let me ask you this.. If JJ's contract on Brooklyn's team doesn't stop them from being a competitive team.. what exactly does that say about us? Everybody blames JJ's contract on all of our woes in the playoffs, etc. However, What about Marvin's contract? What about Hinrich's contract? What about Zaza's contract? What about Smoove's contract. The problem is that as fans, we pick our favorites and we keep them off to the side as untouchable. The best contract we have is Horford's. However, even without Horford we were a 60% winning team. Some of these other contracts should have come under fire before Joe's. Sure Joe's is the biggest impact contract, but we will see how that price in paid in Chemistry.

I'm still really not seeing a lot of your points. All the contracts add up, sure. The point is are you going to continue to build around the guy who is the oldest and has the biggest, escalating contract when the team that was centered on him for years is showing signs of decline? Who says the Hawks weren't competitive with Joe. We just weren't good enough. I say ignore everything else and ask if this team was making money? If you have a team that the fans don't care about then as an owner i try something new.

[ruhiel]

Josh Smith playing SF might be a potential recipe for disaster, or it could be a potential boon, but Josh at PF is a tried and true recipe for mediocrity.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBWS8RM78QATried and true my friendhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKCqCeOVH4Y

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

^^^I think Smoove at SF is a better option than him at PF... when he plays PF w/ Pachulia or Horf at center, he tends to hang outside a lot and jack up those rainbows. When he is at SF, he crashed the boards more often and gets dunks/layups. I know people hate his long jumper (myself included) and fans are afraid that if he is at SF, he'll shoot those even more often, but I don't think so. I think Josh will play his game no matter where he plays...To get back on topic, I agree with you. I don't understand all of the hate either, especially since Ferry did two things that almost every Hawks fan wanted done: 1) Get rid of JJ's huge contract, and 2) Dump Duck butt. I support Ferry right now because their have been multiple reasons for optimism. Even if we don't get Dwight in 2013, Ferry already has a Plan B in his head. Mediocrity is not good enough for Ferry and he isn't afraid to put his head on the line to get better. With an attitude like that, it makes us very attractive to FA. Also, Ferry has said that he will address the wing issue before the trade deadline. If you look at whats left for quality wing players, there aren't any. We have a problem at wing, Ferry understands the issue and the market, and, instead of just paying anybody, he is holding back to get the right player... Nothing wrong with that. Only the foolish expect a Hawks championship at the end of this season...

Edited August 14, 2012 by PSSSHHHRRR87

[sillent]

People keep talking about this contract keeping the Hawks from doing things. That contract did no such thing. Stop blaming the contract for the lack of Hawk progress. The lack of progress falls straight on management. Bottom line is that if you want the Hawks to be a "championship level" team, they need to start doing "championship level" type moves. You don't pay a coach the lowest salary in the league. You don't hire a GM that was a failure in his previous job. You don't be so deathly against going over the Luxury Tax, it prohibits you from bringing in a higher quality player ( or keeping one ). The fact is that people are looking at what JJ will make in the future, but he isn't even making over 20 million yet. Even if he were making 15 million, the Hawks STILL wouldn't be far enough under the cap for them to get a significant player. Just stop blaming the contract for the reason why this team "can't" or "won't" get to the next level. A contract like that does not stop a team SERIOUS about building a contender. Getting rid of the contract is fine. Now . . what can he do ( or will do ) with his contract off the books? Bringing in guys like Kyle Korver and counting on Anthony Morrow to play "winning basketball", are moves that don't impress me one bit. Ferry talks about assembling a team that can move the ball and play defense. But he's brought in guys who may can shoot, but can't play a lick of defense. But hey, we got the "contract" off the books, so people are cool with anything . . whether it be lack of defense . . lack of a go-to scorer . . or even losing itself. The "contract" is gone, so it's OK if we take a step, or two, or three back . . because we HOPE we can get above where we used to be. I think some of you just want people like myself and Diesel to simply "shut up", because the Hawks finally made some changes. I can't speak for Diesel, but the fact that Ferry STILL hasn't adequately addressed the SF issue, while hoarding all of these guards, is a red flag to me. Because if that's the case, it means that Smith will be playing SF this year. And that's a potential recipe for disaster. But no worries. We got "the contract" off the books, so who cares how the Hawks play this year.

I think you missed the point of the post JJ is declining as you will see in Brooklyn. His contract isn't if Josh had that contract right now it wouldn't hurt as much because again he is only 26 and still improving every year. Good business is not breaking the bank on declining players. Yes we may have picked up some mediocre shooters but everyone we have currently has a good and flexible contract meaning we are not hindered to make real moves. Make your argument when we pick up a bad contract or a horrible player. Until then business seems to be going in the right direction. No job is permanent and everyone knows that but the smart companies readjust accordingly to be successful.

[sillent]

If all cap flexibility means is more money to give to Josh for doing the same thing he's been doing and money to pick up a guy with less talent than Joe... what was the point? None of you who are happy with Ferry right now can point to anybody who Ferry has or is targeting and say that or those players will make us championship calibre. Instead, you have this notion that Ferry will do what you want him to do and bring in this no name star from parts unknown, weight unknown. But when you get down to the brass tax. This is Still Atlanta. We can't even get our hometown savior to come home. You guys believe that cap flexibility means that Guys will want to come here and play for us. Check the History. That has never happened. Guys want to come here and buy houses. They want to come here and go to the strip club.. but nobody wants to come here and play for our organization. I'm afraid you will have to learn the hard way that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Y'all keep assuming what Ferry or players are going to do but you can only take what's given. He hasn't maxed out Harden, or Lin or Asik for that matter. Why would you assume he'd get rid of a contract like JJ's just to add another large over paying contract. As far as this city this isn't the Pete Babcock days anymore. People like Jamal, McGrady, Stackhouse saw that this team was no longer a joke and moving in the right direction. Tracy and Jerry want rings now at this stage in their career and they choose to come here. We seen that with the Lakers and Celtics but the Hawks are slowly but surely entering a new era!! Atlanta is a desirable city anyway. No one was jumping up and down for the Heat at a time but it's a desirable destination if Management proves it is consistently about winning!!