Who are the future max players the hawks should target?

[AHawks89]

I love how we have tons of NBA scouts in here. Don't quit your day job.

Edited October 25, 2012 by AHawks89

[Robdawg]

I love how we have tons of NBA scouts in here. Don't quit your day job.

haha your right but it's nice to dream. Without really looking at what anyone else has said I would say the Hawks should target Harden/Howard/CP3. Now ATL isn't a big time superstar destination so I think the Hawks will reach a little on players that have shown superstar potential but haven't reached it yet. I could easily see Harden and Iguodala coming here. Now Iguodala isn't worth the max but he is a great 3 and we would have playmakers everywhere. Starters: Teague Harden Iguodala Smith Horford Edited October 26, 2012 by Robdawg

[Kimsey]

Just about any max guy that's willing to sign here. Beggars can't be choosers.

[lethalweapon3]

Just another NBA cabbage to throw out there for us to make slaw out of.

Not a superstar in 2012, not good with his shot selection, not a proven winner, and not mature by any stretch, but by Summer 2015? (and just turning age 25 by then?) For the right max price, he'd be willing to leave those King County Kings to get a little closer to 'Bama.

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Also putting Rudy G out there for consideration. And by G, I mean Gobert. Y'all Summer Draft guys know I love my Euros. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rudy-Gobert-5878/ ~lw3

Edited October 26, 2012 by lethalweapon3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

James Harden does NOT have what it takes to get to the next level. He gets a lot easier shots as the 3rd guy, but with all the pressure on him to deliver night in and night out, he would do slightly better than Joe at best.

So that means that Harden becomes the 3rd best SG in the league and a perennial All-Star? Some of you aren't even talking right, when it comes to this issue. You diss JJ like he was just an also-ran, when even Kobe couldn't come close to sniffing a NBA Finals appearance without at least a very good to dominant big man playing beside him. Kevin Garnett lost tons of series in the 1st round, before he got Cassell and Spreewell ( two all-star caliber or borderline all-star caliber players at the time. ) Ray Allen reached one EC Finals, and he arguably wasn't the best guy on the team then. ( also had Cassell on that tem ) Lebron needed to leave Cleveland and pair up with another superstar and an all-star caliber player, in order to win his championship. Dwight Howard has left Orlando in order to win his championship. Deron Williams played in one WC Finals, but crashed and burned most of the time in the playoffs But James Harden can't possibly be on the level of those other guys, because he played with 2 other offensive threats? This, despite Harden creating the vast majority of his offense via isolation, and can knock down threes, and can get to the FT line? Man please. Harden would have no problem averaging 21 - 26 ppg, if he was main guy. And if somebody was acquired that was better, he'd be a great 1A option as a scorer.

[Watchman]

I don't know. Harden just seems like Joe and "deja vu all over again."

[HawkItus]

I don't know. Harden just seems like Joe and "deja vu all over again."

I don't get this though. Joe was great when we first got him. If you had a prime Joe with a healthy AL last year, we would have made it to the conference finals. People forget how good Joe was. We just never put anyone around him. When he our young guys grew into that role, he was older and not as effective.

[Sothron]

I don't know. Harden just seems like Joe and "deja vu all over again."

He's not even as good as Joe was. People forget what a matchup nightmare with his size and height Joe was esp. on DEFENSE because he could shut guys down. He also is a very good passes. None of this applies to Harden. The dude is a one dimensional shooter that has absolutely zero pressure on him because any team loss is going to be held against the two real superstars on the team. So while I understand totally and even made the allusion myself it's not quite Joe Johnson 2.0 because Joe is simply a better player.

[Wretch]

When you walk in with your B-List team, led by your Joe Johnson or your James Hardin or your Josh Smith... This is who is waiting on you...

Do you people NOT get this? After all these years...have we NOT figured it out yet? GOOD ain't gonna damn cut it. Bringing in yet ANOTHER guy trying to prove that he is option #1 and surrounding him with GOOD talent is like taking your face and planting it into a buzzsaw.

The shit don't work. There will ALWAYS be teams like you see above and they will always whoop your ass and take your lunch money. /thread

[MaceCase]

Harden is both a good defender and a good passer. Can run and score in the pick and roll, off of screens, in isolation, spot up, gets to the line at a super star level yet he's considered one dimensional? I wouldn't even bother posting stats to actually confirm all of this, I feel they'd just be lost on some folks. Oh, and he's only 23 and entering his 4th year so there's still a whole stratosphere of improvement remaining.

Like the comparison I made earlier, people complaining about him being Joe 2.0 is like Orlando fans in 2000 complaining that T-Mac is just going to be Penny 2.0...........like it's a bad thing.

[Wretch]

Let me be clear...

For me, this is not specifically about James Harden (2012) vs. Joe Johnson (2005). You can look at the stats and the shot charts yourself. Harden is a penetrator (that lives on trying to draw contact) and a long range shooter. Joe was the beneficiary of being the 4th option (getting a lot of open 3PT looks).

Harden draws fouls. Joe was a chiseled 6'8" 240lb nightmare in the lane.

Harden gets high percentage shots. Joe was a better 3PT shooter.

Harden is fast. Joe subbed at POINT GUARD for a WC contender.

From my perspective, it's not about any similarity in their games - THERE IS NONE. For me, it's not about who is the better player, each has/had their strengths. Unlike many people, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Joe wasn't an AMAZING pick up for us - because of the playoff results that followed. I'm also not going to pin it on him. I was one of the few people who respected Joe all the way to the end.

BUT....

It became apparent to me (and I'm sure some of you too) very early that Joe needed help. Every player needs help, but Joe REALLY needed someone to step up. We wanted Marvin, Smoove, Chill, Horf...anybody to be that player. People need to stop revising history. It wasn't that management didn't surround Joe with help - we drafted players that we thought might blossom into a Joe-like player. None of those guys rose to that level.

What happened was we were left with one VERY GOOD player who had little or no help. Defending that is easy. Which is part of the reason why Joe struggled. Who's going to take the pressure off of him? You put THIS James Harden in THAT same situation, you are going to get the SAME result. The only difference MIGHT be in ONE part of their game.

Joe is not a guy who is capable of beating people with speed. He could offset that with power, but he'd have to be or get into the paint. If there's a big or shot blocker/adept defender in there though (Howard, Garnett, Noah, etc.), then Joe is negated. An aging Joe was not going to beat 2 or 3 defenders off the dribble (that wasn't his game 7 years ago) and he was not going to abuse a double with a big in the paint. With nobody to give the ball to, we lose. It was a flawed gameplan.

Harden? Might be the superstar some of you want him to be. I'm not going to sit here and try to predict his future. In that same situation though, you've still got a guy that needs help. You take away that lane and where is his midrange game? I don't see a guy that's going to create a lot of midrange offense. Meanwhile, you've still got the same B-List guys floating around the perimeter giving you DECENT help.

That's just not going to cut it. It IS the same SITUATION all over again.

The plan, if you add a guy like Harden, is that you don't build a team around him. Which, I'm not sure if some of you guys are suggesting... If we were to get a guy like that, then the forward thinking has to be find more players on his level or BETTER (with the emphasis on better). You need MORE. Much more.

Personally? I'm no Harden expert. I don't watch him enough. But I have seen him enough to know that I don't care for his game. Especially not as the personality of a new look Hawks. I think he's too dependent upon that little playground scoop and trying to draw fouls. I don't see a finisher (like Wade, Rose, or Kobe in his prime). I see a complimentary guy that looks to draw the contact. In that, I think he's benefited by playing with ELITE young talent - one of them being arguably the hottest talent in the game right now.

If you take away the consistent threat of elite talent playing around him and you FOCUS him, I don't see him being as effective. If we were to put the burden on his shoulders, give him a B-list group of players to support him, and have teams focus him on the defense the way they focused Joe...I don't see much difference between the era we just left.

I'm not so much knocking on James Harden. I'm saying, we need more - A LOT MORE - than bringing in yet another pretty good player and making him the face of our team.

"Come out to the Layup Factory [*hawk screech*] and see James Harden and YOUR Atlanta Hawks as they take on the World Champion....."

No thanks.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Wretch

[AHF]

For the people who say "playing with superstar gets Harden easy shots" then why does he score 30 pp36 when Westbrook isn't on the floor and outscore Durant during that time? Shouldn't his scoring and efficiency go down when he is no longer getting these easy shots?The guy was 22 last season and had a better PER than Joe's career high. They are different players so no "JJ 2.0" comments please.

[Sothron]

For the people who say "playing with superstar gets Harden easy shots" then why does he score 30 pp36 when Westbrook isn't on the floor and outscore Durant during that time? Shouldn't his scoring and efficiency go down when he is no longer getting these easy shots? The guy was 22 last season and had a better PER than Joe's career high. They are different players so no "JJ 2.0" comments please.

Seriously? Seriously? Why does he outscore a superstar getting double teamed when he's given wide open jump shots as a result? C'mon man.

[AHF]

Seriously? Seriously? Why does he outscore a superstar getting double teamed when he's given wide open jump shots as a result? C'mon man.

lol It is impressive how many iso plays Harden runs that result in his defender running away from him to double Westbrook on the bench and Durant in the game. Good thing his defender remains close enough to bail out Harden with a foul when he airballs another shot. Lucky SOB.

[Swatguy]

I don't know why folks hate on Harden, the guy is legit. He had a poor finals but aside he was trill.I had to edit because i thought Lin was in the trade not Lamb. Well OKC did well.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Swatguy

[lethalweapon3]

I don't know why folks hate on Harden, the guy is legit. He had a poor finals but aside he was trill. I also don't know what OKC will do with Westbrook, Lin and Martin. How soon can they trade a Martin or Lin?

Like Mary, they got a little Lamb, not a Lin. Not sure but does the two-month rule apply? ~lw3

[Swatguy]

Like Mary, they got a little Lamb, not a Lin. Not sure but does the two-month rule apply? ~lw3

Thanks Barrister. Edited October 28, 2012 by Swatguy