Who are the future max players the hawks should target?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I read Sothron's reply to Gray Mule in that other thread, and I agree with Soth on this point. You do need that superstar on your team to contend for a championship. But Gray also has a valid point that can't be overlooked. Superstars have never WILLINGLY wanted to come to ATL. Changing a GM isn't going to change that fact. The entire environment in ATL, from management to fans, may have to change in order to land an already established star.So that leads me to the title of the thread.Who are the future MAX level type players the Hawks should target?Who are the guys in the league right now, that if given the chance to be the #1 guy in ATL, can blossom into a superstar?

[macdaddy]

First let me say I don't have an answer, but Ferry has been extremely forthcoming in his agreement that grabbing a star in free agency is difficult and he repeatedly talks about trades as the best route for this team. Hence the 18 expiring contracts we will have to unload at the deadline. So these players don't have to WANT to come here over any other destination. The other thing is that targeting guys on the downside of their career is not where we are as a franchise. So we need the powers that be to identify who is an excellent player now with potential to be a star. That's what we did with Joe with mixed results.

[HawkItus]

First let me say I don't have an answer, but Ferry has been extremely forthcoming in his agreement that grabbing a star in free agency is difficult and he repeatedly talks about trades as the best route for this team. Hence the 18 expiring contracts we will have to unload at the deadline. So these players don't have to WANT to come here over any other destination. The other thing is that targeting guys on the downside of their career is not where we are as a franchise. So we need the powers that be to identify who is an excellent player now with potential to be a star. That's what we did with Joe with mixed results.

Well I think we are in a different place now than we maybe in the Summer. We will either be building around our chosen one(Josh Smith) or starting from almost scratch.

[T21]

The environment or the culture change, as we like to say, doesn't happen over night...However, IMHO, Hawks have done fair share of hard work to make that change come true over the course of last few years.Hawks have been consistent playoff team for quite some time, they brought in a young, ambitious GM, who has a vision and doesn't want to settle for mediocrity. That vision is shared by ownership (regardless of our criticism), who showed they're willing to spend in order to get top level talent.As things stand, we have a decent core, lots of cap space and a capable GM!If that doesn't sound attractive, I'm not sure what's the meaning of that word anymore!P.S. Perhaps there is room for improvement in coaching dept. (no disrespect to LD), perhaps a better and more experienced HC would make us even more attractive and I'm sure that GM will take care of that as well...

[Sothron]

Josh Smith is not a superstar and is not worth a max deal. And sadly someone is going to give that dude a max deal just like other undeserving players like Al Jefferson and James Harden. For goodness TAJ GIBSON a freakin' back up is demanding 8-10 million a year from the Bulls to be a BACK UP. Insane. I'm glad Ferry isn't going to fall for that nonsense.

[Watchman]

Superstars have never WILLINGLY wanted to come to ATL.

One exception. Dikembe wanted to come here. Long time ago though.

[Jody23]

Josh Smith is not a superstar and is not worth a max deal. And sadly someone is going to give that dude a max deal just like other undeserving players like Al Jefferson and James Harden. For goodness TAJ GIBSON a freakin' back up is demanding 8-10 million a year from the Bulls to be a BACK UP. Insane. I'm glad Ferry isn't going to fall for that nonsense.

Agree and hope Ferry doesn't fall for it either. You are not building a contender if you're overpaying max contracts to guess whose game don't warrant it. That is the road to mediocrity and we all should be well acquainted with that. I love Josh, but he ain't a max player.

[ATLscrubLove]

If Smoove gets a max from anyone they are dumb. He is an average "star" player. Don't really care if other teams offer that much as long as the Hawks don't.

[Nicholasp27]

Even if we don't get one this year then we are ok as long as we don't overspendWith new CBA, most teams will be screwed in a few years and bargains will abound as salaries drop bc teams can't pay more due to bad deals they are signing now and in the recent past

[Nicholasp27]

That's also why we need to trade smoove soon so someone else can overpayDo you want to keep smith or take a chance at winning a championship? We don't have a shot if he is retained at a high price and our odds go way up if we get some good pieces for him rather than lose him for nothing

[yungsta]

we obviously should be going after cp3 and d12 but honestly the chances of them coming here is .000000000000000000000000000001. there isnt anyone in the 2013 free agency class who isnt an already established superstar that can become a superstar when given a chance to be the number 1 option.1.James Harden is a 2nd option at best. He relies on the refs too much to give him freethrows and u know damn well he isnt getting any ref love in atlanta.2. Andrew bynum doesnt have the attitude or the passion to blossom into a superstar and he is VERY immature. His knee issues are a huge problem. He is about to turn 25 in a couple of days and he already had multiple knee surgeries on each knee. He hasnt played in a preseason game yet.I feel sorry to whoever going to give him a Max contract. I am predicting he is going to retire before he reaches 30.

[capstone21]

we obviously should be going after cp3 and d12 but honestly the chances of them coming here is .000000000000000000000000000001. there isnt anyone in the 2013 free agency class who isnt an already established superstar that can become a superstar when given a chance to be the number 1 option. 1.James Harden is a 2nd option at best. He relies on the refs too much to give him freethrows and u know damn well he isnt getting any ref love in atlanta. 2. Andrew bynum doesnt have the attitude or the passion to blossom into a superstar and he is VERY immature. His knee issues are a huge problem. He is about to turn 25 in a couple of days and he already had multiple knee surgeries on each knee. He hasnt played in a preseason game yet. I feel sorry to whoever going to give him a Max contract. I am predicting he is going to retire before he reaches 30.

I agree with you and Bynum is way to much of a risk with his history. Orlando probably didn't want him because of that.

[Gray Mule]

Back to the leading question of this thread.

WHO??

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Back to the leading question of this thread.

WHO??

Thank you GM.

I think people here have it all wrong. You are going to HAVE to pay SOMEBODY. Even the guys who are making 8 - 10 million may be overpaid ( see Marvin Williams ), but still may have to be on the team.

The reason the Hawks got into the situation they did, was because they did overpay guys to stay. They overpaid JJ. Honestly, Al Horford isn't exactly what a 12 million dollar a year player should be either. You can even make a case that Smith making 13.2 million this year, is overpaid.

So I guess guys here would rather see a team full of 6 - 7 million dollar mediocre players, and be . . . mediocre . . . than to overpay one or two real good players who can actually win games, and maybe be good to borderline great.

From top to bottom, Denver probably has the best collection of talent out of everybody. But here's what those guys are making:

Iguodala - 14.7 million

McGee - 10 million

Gallanari - 9.4 million

Chandler - 5.9 million

Miller - 5 million

Brewer - 3.2 million

Koufos - 3 million

Mozgov - 2.8 million

Lawson - 2.5 million . . will be a restricted free agent ( RFA ) next season, and will get PAID

Randolph - 1.7 million

Fournier - 1.4 million

Faried - 1.4 million . . and is far outplaying his worth already

Hamilton - 1.2 million

So if you're the Denver Nuggets . . and you know that Ty Lawson is up for a big time pay jump next year . . are you supposed to just let another team take him away from you, just because YOU as an organization think he isn't worth close to a MAX deal?

Lawson is exactly one of those guys I'm talking about. He has the type of game that could possibly make him an elite level PG, worthy of being paid like Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F0eknSMb3g

The same goes for Harden, and Bynum, and possibly even Stephen Curry.

All 4 of those guys could be legit All-Star talents within the next 3 years. Bynum went from a guy that had Laker fans doubting if he'd ever get to the next level, to a guy who shows flashes of being a superstar ( even if he doesn't have superstar type maturity or durability right now ).

So Hawk fans, in their apprehension to not overpay somebody, wouldn't pay big bucks to a guy who could easily be an All-Star and possible superstar?

Do you want to surround Horford with a bunch of 5 mill a year guys?

People need to understand this about our future. Either we need to be so bad, that we can get a top 3 lottery pick that might show superstar like game from Day 1 ( see Kyrie Irving ). Or we need to acquire enough good talent, in order to make that big trade one day for an established, but disgruntled superstar ( see the Carmelo for the Knicks young talent ).

Chris Paul ain't banging on the Philips Arena door, saying . . . "Let me in. I want to play in ATL." Dwight Howard isn't going to do the same either.

[Colin]

Kyrie Irving and Greg Monroe in 4 years.

[MaceCase]

The "no duh" max players:

Dwight

Paul

Bynum

These are the unchallenged top of the free agent crop but many feel they will be unattainable. Yes Bynum is included because 1) He's at position of rarity 2) Has shown he can get the stats 3) will have a market.

The "Buyer beware" max players:

Josh

Al Jefferson

Monta Ellis (claims he's opting out next season)

These are the guys that will be mostly associated with desperate GMs if they receive a max contract. These are guys you are overpaying for on past merits as it's doubtful they have much wiggle room to improve much if any over the life of their new contracts. Overall young, yes, but in terms of NBA experience and minutes played they are well into their primes already.

The "no duh" off of rookie scale max players:

James Harden

Ty Lawson

People can talk about paying for "mediocrity" with this bunch but there are a few facts to consider

1) Their "max" value is not close to a 8-9 year vet's max value.

2) They actually have future potential left in their games considering what they've accomplished within only 3 years.

Lawson you can argue based on the overabundance of his position but he's firmly in the 2nd tier below the "God" tier of Paul, Rondo, Westbrook, etc. Harden you can say is going to be Joe 2.0 but you can just as easily make a comparison to Toronto Tracy McGrady.

The off of rookie scale "near" max players:

Steph Curry (his ankles are near Grant Hill status)

Nikola Pekovic

These are restricted guys that very easily could jump into that max tier. Pekovic is older but he's a more than capable center and Curry just needs to overcome his chronic ankle issues.

[tbhawksfan]

There could be another senario to envision. If Ferry can pick up a very nice player with a combination of some of our nice player expirings (Morrow, Korver, Teague, Korver, Harris, Zaza) and some picks near the deadline and convince Smith to extend at a reasonable team price, we could conceivably have a top caliber team with a core of Horf, Smoove, new guy; plus.If this doesn't happen, Smith will need to be traded. Resigning Smith max as our best player next season does not seem like the path to the top.I would be very happy if Ferry can swing the first option. Trade for a Hawks #1-2 type player and keep our two nice young bigs.

[tbhawksfan]

This would be a nice example of option #1Zaza / Harris / Hou first for PerkinsGet HardenPerkinsHorfSmooveHardenTeagueBench: Lou W / JJ / Scott / Ivan / Korver or Morrow / Draft PG and a couple of min contract for depth and balance

[Swatguy]

This would be a nice example of option #1 Zaza / Harris / Hou first for Perkins Get Harden Perkins Horf Smoove Harden Teague Bench: Lou W / JJ / Scott / Ivan / Korver or Morrow / Draft PG and a couple of min contract for depth and balance

What does Perkins bring that Zaza doesn't? Zaza compliments well with half the price. Sacrificing a 1 to boot? We can sign and trade harris away or just renounce and sign Harden straight up. Are you kidding? We trade for Perkins, OKC signs Harden.

[Wretch]

The first thing we do is stop asking "Who do we get?" You just stop right there. I've been watching this game for a LONG time and have been a Hawks fan for the entirety of that. So, it kills me that people still ask this question when I know that many of you are just like me. How can you keep asking that question?

Who do we get?

Who do we get?

Who do we get?

The answer isn't "who" the answer is WHAT. You focus first on the "What" and then you get to work. WHAT we need is a superstar. We're not talking about from where, or who, or when, or why, or how- we'll address that in a second. You start with WHAT it is that you need. This team needs a personality. In the sports world, team personalities are not defined by 2nd teir players. They are defined and remembered by SPECIAL talent - and it is that talent that wins games, draws fans, and draws KEY talent.

Go ahead and jump the gun...if you're still reading. Go ahead and ask it again...

WHO do we get? Paul? Harden? WHO!!?!?

HOW do we get him? Overspend?

WHEN do we get him? Now? Next season? 2015?

WHERE do we get him from? Draft? Free agency?

Ask all these questions as many times as you need to. Go ahead...I'll wait. Excuse me while I put my fingers in my ears.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRHRknvA9wk

Ok we done asking THOSE questions? If so, then let's get back to the real question. WHAT do we need? Should be obvious, because it is the reason why the fans don't come out. It's the reason why free agents don't come here. It's also the reason why we've never won anything. We haven't had that elite level talent to take us past the 2nd round.

HOME SLICES...that is what we need. "A. Superstar"

OK, so now that I've played your stupid little game, Wretch, tell us OH ENLIGHTENED ONE, what's your AWESOME, INCREDIBLE, FEASIBLE plan to GET the superstar? HMMM? We KNOW we need one...that's not really the...

Shhh.

If people KNEW the answers to the who, when, where, and how...then how do all these teams make all these blunders year after yea? Seriously, teams would never overpay for a Joe Johnson. They would never draft a Kwame Brown, and certainly not a Bowie over Jordan, or an Oden over Durant. Did you know the Lakers almost traded James Worthy to Dallas? While you're trying to wrap your mind around that, take all your who, how, when, and where's...and flip through this.

YOU CAN'T GET CAUGHT UP IN ALL THAT. IT'S TOO CONVOLUTED AND TOO MANY POSSIBILITIES TO SORT OUT. And it just doesn't work that way. Otherwise, Dallas might not have drafted (traded for) a skinny, 7 foot German. Miami would not have taken Wade. Orlando might have traded Dwight a long time ago. Atlanta might have TANKED the 2003/04 season!

The truth is, nobody has all the answers to those questions that you guys are asking. Not at first. What they do is pan for gold. Once they hit paydirt, they keep going. So, we do what it takes to GET the "WHAT" here. The rest of that shit will come. You don't build around Josh Smith or Joe Johnson. Even though they are great, you don't set your sights on James Worthy or Scottie Pippen as the #1 option on your team. You don't build around James Harden (who pissed me off in the Finals.....). These guys are ROBIN and you don't overspend for these guys and make them the heart of your team when you don't even have a Batman.

You build around Batman, not Robin. You search high and low for Dwight or Paul or Wade or LeBron or Bird, then you give THAT player disgusting amounts of money to lock him down. Then you find the talent and coaching that will get him to the next level.

We need a superstar and it doesn't matter even a little bit who he is, how we get him, when we get him, or where we get him from. That is the answer and THAT is what this team has not done in the decades that I have watched it. But...you guys keep on looking for ways to get around the truth. Keep on looking at these 2nd teir players and over the hill Shaq types that STILL refuse to play for us. Keep thinking that a blue collar team of "stars" like Smitty, Mookie, JJ, Josh, and Horford is going to get us to the big games.

Voltron, Showtime, The Bad Boys, DA BULLS...the real teams in the NBA will always be waiting to step on that 50 win Hawks team. Meanwhile, the teams we beat up during the regular season will continue panning for gold.

Short answer - The ONLY thing that matters is getting that elite talent. None of those other questions are relevant until we get to that point.