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[Watchman]

Horford vs. Cousins.

My original intent yesterday was to talk about how much we needed Cousins over Horf. But they have stats that are about the same. Moreover, head to head, they have played each other to a draw.

SO squawkers here's my question. Why does it seem like Horf is sucking so bad?

Cousins = JR Rider on human growth hormones. I'd rather stick with Al. Sanity > "Potential"

[Diesel]

Horford vs. Cousins.

My original intent yesterday was to talk about how much we needed Cousins over Horf. But they have stats that are about the same. Moreover, head to head, they have played each other to a draw.

SO squawkers here's my question. Why does it seem like Horf is sucking so bad?

[Jody23]

Where are you getting this "Horf sucking so bad"? Sure he had a mini-slump lately, but he's working his way out of it and still is getting his strength back from the injury as he mentioned in a recent interview. Furthermore, with Horf being more of a PF and Cousins being a true center at 6'11 and 270, Horf is 3-0 against him. While I'll have to check the first two games, the last game against the Kings, Horf started and played mostly at the four. He and ZaZa together made light work out of the Kings frontline, including Cousins.I agree that Cousins is a nice talent, but trading Horf for him doesn't make the Hawks better and doesn't solve the rebounding issue up front as Horf is usually the only strong rebounder in the starting lineup when ZaZa doesn' t start alongside him.Now while I wouldn't trade Horf or Josh for him, I would consider acquiring him. Adding him to Horf and Smoove would give the Hawks the best starting front court in the league arguably. The issue right now with Cousins is obviously his maturity which raises a huge red flag as the Hawks are not looking to take a step back in terms of being a winning team at this point. Trading Horf or Smoove for Cousins would be contrary to that goal.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Jody23

[capstone21]

Cousins is a complementary player. He is talented but he is a mess. He takes a lot of jumpers instead of working inside and so he does not shoot foro a high percentage. He also does not give a 100 percent effort out there and has a really bad attitude. He is the opposite of Horford and would not trade Hirford for him. Actually Cousins would need someone like Horford to play with who can be a leader and a mentor and have an attitude to learn from.

[JTB]

I dont get this board sometimes! Did Horford not go 9 for 12 shooting against the bulls last game?! Taking Noah completely out the game! Did Horford not grab 10 rebounds in the last game against the bulls?!

Has Horford not been consistent nearly the whole season so far?!...When are people on this board going to realize that Horford is a legit, REAL CENTER in TODAY's NBA?

No Horford probably couldnt play center back in the 80s and 90s but in this decade and in this time Horford is a PERFECT Center to have! He's quick for a center, he has a solid well actually above average mid range jumpshot, Horford is even taking it to the post and finishing nearly all the time!

To say Horford is sucking is saying you dont watch the games! Please take a look at Horfords game logs. See the truth is that if he gets more touches it will benefit us more.

Some notable facts about horford this season so far:

-Horford is actually doing great in the post this season!

-Horford jumpshot has been on in most games this season

-Horford is number 10 in the league among ALL positions for double doubles

-Horford is number 6 in the league among all centers for double doubles

Im so sick of Horford getting blame when he doesnt deserve it! Seriously we either get another center who can rebound (which isnt the smartest thing to do) or we get a NEEDED position at the 3 (SF) who can defend on the perimiter and can help rebounding! Other than that all this Horford suck stuff can go out the door because his play on court doesnt show it and his stats definitely doesnt show it.

If youre going to say this man sucks please please please please please provide facts, but truth is and I hate to ramble on and on but truth is that you cant find a reason on why you think Horford sucks! LOL yeah he messed up for 2 games and has been good in all the rest.

[JTB]

Take a look at horfords game log:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_horford/game_by_game_stats.html

This CENTER we have has been....and please excuse my language....mutha flipping OUTSTANDING this year especially in the month of November and really ALL of December except for 2 games!

You can't be serious to think that even Cousins is a better center than horford! Hell Noah isnt a better Center than Horford. Roy Hibbert isnt better than Horford. You cant name but maybe 4 players better than Horford at Center!

What I have realized is that SIZE doesnt matter! The Hawk fans that are being blinded by Hofords size better wake up! You have a good center

[Jody23]

Take a look at horfords game log: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_horford/game_by_game_stats.html This CENTER we have has been....and please excuse my language....mutha flipping OUTSTANDING this year especially in the month of November and really ALL of December except for 2 games! You can't be serious to think that even Cousins is a better center than horford! Hell Noah isnt a better Center than Horford. Roy Hibbert isnt better than Horford. You cant name but maybe 4 players better than Horford at Center! What I have realized is that SIZE doesnt matter! The Hawk fans that are being blinded by Hofords size better wake up! You have a good center

Let's not get carried. Size indeed does matter. If it didn't, we could play Kyle Korver at center. Truth be told, both Josh and Horford have benefited when another capable big is on the floor to help rebound, allowing them to get out run more in transition instead of having to get every rebound themselves. We've seen that a SF the size of Marvin still doesn't make them a formidable front line on the boards. Now that it has been clearly shown that Josh can defend SFs exceptionally well, the team will benefit more by adding another quality big and I think they aim to do it if they can get Dwight. Edited December 24, 2012 by Jody23

[CroHawk]

Size does not matter.its all in mentality and fundamentals.simple fact.R.Evans 6'8" against B.Lopez 7'0".or Z-Bo.how guy whos vertical ability is at minimum gets many rebounds?fundamentals&mentality!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Cousins = JR Rider on human growth hormones. I'd rather stick with Al. Sanity > "Potential"

LOL . . he does remind me of JR Rider, the center version.Too much of a hot head, and nowhere near as talented as he think he is.

[Diesel]

Well, I don't really count Horf vs. Noah anything that counts. However, there are some truths here and some things to consider.

1. Size matters.

You find a championship team without size and you have a championship team with the best player in the league and a strong wingman. Jordan, Pippen & James, Wade. I don't expect Smoove to all the sudden become a great player. He's just not fashioned to be that. Moreover, I don't think that Al is a great big. A great big is the guy who you can throw the ball into and he come back with points when you need them. Horf doesn't have a goto move.

2. Mentality matters.

We love to call on JR Rider but let's remember the whole story about JR rider. We sent JR Rider here with a rookie PG and no other vets. What did you expect to see. Lenny was a great coach but with no vets on the floor and no leader with the ball, JR did what he wanted to do. I don't think that Cousins is the off the court menace that Rider was. He strikes me more as a Rasheed kind of guy. If you give him the right cast, he will be an asset.

3. FG%. Here's where the problems start for me. He does shoot from outside too much. So does Josh. I'm against guys working against their strengths. BUt the guy was 17.4, 9.5 when he stopped.

I'm convinced, taking a shot on him and sending Smoove to SacTown would be ballsy but may turn out to be a great move.

[TheFuzz]

I'd trade virtually anybody but Teague, Josh, Horf (I'd love to keep Zaza and Korver too). I might even take back a bad contract. But Cousins really isn't that good.

[Swatguy]

Hawks need to send someone over there and find out if the guy is nuts or just want to get out of cattle land.

[Vol4ever]

No to Cousins, we've already have one head case on this team.

[capstone21]

I'd trade virtually anybody but Teague, Josh, Horf (I'd love to keep Zaza and Korver too). I might even take back a bad contract. But Cousins really isn't that good.

So basically no one of any value.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

So basically no one of any value.

I think a Harris/Morrow/1st package would be enticing to a few teams. Don't lose anything in that deal either since Williams has played a good bit at point and Jenkins is the same player as Morrow.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheFuzz]

So basically no one of any value.

Sort of. DMC ain't worth a whole lot. We have 4 (!) picks in the upcoming draft, we could take back Salmons, and we could involve a 3rd team. Cousins is talented, but so was Blatche.

Korver, Zaza, and maybe even Teague would be on the table, but personally I'd rather not trade winning players for a potential cancer.

Edit: In other words, we aren't great trade partners.

Edited December 25, 2012 by TheFuzz

[wolvetigers]

I dont get this board sometimes! Did Horford not go 9 for 12 shooting against the bulls last game?! Taking Noah completely out the game! Did Horford not grab 10 rebounds in the last game against the bulls?!

Hey I totally agree with you...the problem is most people view sports like fantasy teams...They believe that if you add certain players stats like Cousins for example and he could replicate the same numbers in Atlanta. They disregard chemistry, and drive to do well on & off the court. The strange thing is Atlanta Fans should know better..we did the JR Rider thing - we did the Danny Manny (not a cancer, but not a good fit chemistry wise) thing and yet we are still lobbying for known cancers to come here thinking that their talent would help us reach the championship level.....THE ANSWER IS NO...

Only person i would possibly take a risk on is Tyreke Evans...trading some of our expiring contracts for him...and see if he can buy in to our team concept. Any player that has been suspended indefinitely by their team for conduct detrimental to a team does NOT BELONG HERE...unless of course we had a Phil Jackson, Pat Riley type coach that could demand the respect and accountability from their players...Which we dont......WAKE UP HAWKS FANS

[bruincoach]

2 bad games and he is "sucking so bad"Give me a break. Typical over reaction to a few bad games. How many have played or coached? I bet some would bench me consistency for not being perfect every game

[Guest]

Size only matters if you use it your advantage. Cousin's and Josh's numbers are so close but when you factor in Cousins size it's disappointing. Josh brings more defensively and unlike Cousins, Josh is no headcase on the court and not in the Locker room. Don't get me wrong I would like to get him but not for Teague, Horf or Josh.

[Diesel]

Hey I totally agree with you...the problem is most people view sports like fantasy teams...They believe that if you add certain players stats like Cousins for example and he could replicate the same numbers in Atlanta. They disregard chemistry, and drive to do well on & off the court. The strange thing is Atlanta Fans should know better..we did the JR Rider thing - we did the Danny Manny (not a cancer, but not a good fit chemistry wise) thing and yet we are still lobbying for known cancers to come here thinking that their talent would help us reach the championship level.....THE ANSWER IS NO...

Only person i would possibly take a risk on is Tyreke Evans...trading some of our expiring contracts for him...and see if he can buy in to our team concept. Any player that has been suspended indefinitely by their team for conduct detrimental to a team does NOT BELONG HERE...unless of course we had a Phil Jackson, Pat Riley type coach that could demand the respect and accountability from their players...Which we dont......WAKE UP HAWKS FANS

I think your argument is actually backwards.

We have a 6'10 C that plays like he's 6'8 against big competition. See Horf vs. KG for a reference. Also, Horf has no goto move. I have called for it for years now. Where's the goto move for Horf. His points are scored off of pure garbage and hustle points. Those things disappear. So now we get to sit here and watch him get passed by all the young talent coming into the league. Both of Detroit's bigs will pass him. BLopez will pass him. He has familiarity with Noah so let's not talk about that matchup, but what happens when he matches up with a big who knows he's big? Horf disappears. With Cousins, what you get is a lot of talent and potential.

Since my original question, I have opted for a Smoove for Cousins trade. I'm not worried about the chemistry because if you build around a guy like Cousins, he will be a star. I'm more concerned with either overpaying a guy who we know will do the same thing and will eventually fade.. or watching same guy walk and we get nothing for him.