Why can't Smoove learn from Horford?

[drzachary]

Josh Smith is not dumb. That's a very harsh criticism. Does he make bad decisions, and take bad shots, sure. Who doesn't? Fact is, he's an 18 point, 8 rebound, 4 assist, 2 block, 1 steal every night guy. Anyone NBA player that can do that is not dumb.

Dumb, no. Inefficient, yes. At what cost did those points come? Who cares how many points you get if it takes an inappropriate amount of possessions to get them!

[CroHawk]

Its because Josh is PG!Its NOT his job to be around rim.rebound,2nd chance points,...Sarcasam

[AHF]

Antoine Walker averaged 22.4 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.7 spg, and .7 bpg but limited himself and his team with bad jumpers. Anyone want to argue that one of these guys was smarter offensively than the other? They are two peas in a pod with Walker being a bit better on the boards and putting up more points while Josh is better defensively (and thus better overall).

My only hope for an improved Josh is a new coach and even that is a slim hope at this point given how far he is into his career.

[Jody23]

Antoine Walker averaged 22.4 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.7 spg, and .7 bpg but limited himself and his team with bad jumpers. Anyone want to argue that one of these guys was smarter offensively than the other? They are two peas in a pod with Walker being a bit better on the boards and putting up more points while Josh is better defensively (and thus better overall). My only hope for an improved Josh is a new coach and even that is a slim hope at this point given how far he is into his career.

Josh clearly picked up some bad habits from Walker early in his career.

[Guest]

Josh Smith is not dumb. That's a very harsh criticism. Does he make bad decisions, and take bad shots, sure. Who doesn't? Fact is, he's an 18 point, 8 rebound, 4 assist, 2 block, 1 steal every night guy. Anyone NBA player that can do that is not dumb.

And there in lies the problem. We all see the talent and what he can be for this team and the possibilities of where he might be able to lead us. Unfortunately he somehow hasn't been able to combine his talent with what's in between his ears. Can you imagine how much better his numbers would be. There are mistakes and bad decisions - I can live with mistakes but not bad decisions over and over.

[frosgrim]

And there in lies the problem. We all see the talent and what he can be for this team and the possibilities of where he might be able to lead us. Unfortunately he somehow hasn't been able to combine his talent with what's in between his ears. Can you imagine how much better his numbers would be. There are mistakes and bad decisions - I can live with mistakes but not bad decisions over and over.

Excatly. Demonstrate that you can learn from your mistakes and the critisism will taper off. Right now, Josh does the same thing, while expecting different results. How Josh doesn't understand how his long 2 point shooting hurts the team is beyond me.The fastbreak issue is problematic, but our HC only feeds the dellusion when he says the Hawks bigs can bring the ball up court.

[buckeye242424]

I don't buy the "inefficency" argument either. He's top 25 in the league in player efficiency. I'm past the ill-advised jump shots. That's not going to change. I look at his whole body of work during the games, and he makes us a better team.

[DrReality]

Baffling thing is he'll make a great play and then one or more bonehead plays

[Wretch]

Josh Smith has taken 817 shots this season. 334 of those are jump shots from 16' and further.

334 of 817 = 40%

40% of Josh Smith's shots this season have come from 16' and further. In what universe is that a few jumpshots? Now factor into that how much time he spends out there. Not shooting the ball, just time spent maybe...getting into position or spotting up. Because it's not like he just *poof* appears there, shoots a jumper, and then *poof* appears in the paint. He is camping out there...away from the basket where his size and athleticism is actually *gasp* an...advantage.

It's more than just the amount of shots he's taking (which is bad), it's more than taking these shots at critical moments (which is fatally erroneous), it's the fact that this is how he's playing the game.

...and he's shooting 32% on those jumpers. Jumpers usually create long rebounds, which are beneficial to the opposition. Which is why teams let him shoot it with minimal pressure. If you're playing the Hawks, you want the ball in Smith's hands. If you are the Hawks or a fan of the Hawks, guess what you DON'T want Josh doing...ever?

Smart players and championship teams play with the reverse sort of mentality. All players focus on what they do BEST and SACRIFICE ego, agendas, and everything else in pursuit of one thing.

[Jody23]

How some don't understand or see what Wretch just said is beyond me.

[Sothron]

Josh Smith has taken 817 shots this season. 334 of those are jump shots from 16' and further.

334 of 817 = 40%

40% of Josh Smith's shots this season have come from 16' and further. In what universe is that a few jumpshots? Now factor into that how much time he spends out there. Not shooting the ball, just time spent maybe...getting into position or spotting up. Because it's not like he just *poof* appears there, shoots a jumper, and then *poof* appears in the paint. He is camping out there...away from the basket where his size and athleticism is actually *gasp* an...advantage.

It's more than just the amount of shots he's taking (which is bad), it's more than taking these shots at critical moments (which is fatally erroneous), it's the fact that this is how he's playing the game.

...and he's shooting 32% on those jumpers. Jumpers usually create long rebounds, which are beneficial to the opposition. Which is why teams let him shoot it with minimal pressure. If you're playing the Hawks, you want the ball in Smith's hands. If you are the Hawks or a fan of the Hawks, guess what you DON'T want Josh doing...ever?

Smart players and championship teams play with the reverse sort of mentality. All players focus on what they do BEST and SACRIFICE ego, agendas, and everything else in pursuit of one thing.

You can't expect Chucker McChucker to listen to crazy concepts like logic or hard, cold numbers or playing within a system to the best of his abilities. Chucker McChucker only cares about chucking dawg!

[Wretch]

All that and I left out the best part.

THIS IS THE GUY WHO TAKES MORE SHOTS THAN ANYONE ON THIS TEAM AND IS IN FACT OUR LEADING SCORER.

People...are you f***ing kidding me right now? You don't see the problem here? For as long as he wears a Hawks uniform, and for as long as we do nothing about it, THIS guy will approach the game as if HE is the answer to the elite scorers in this league.

Shut the front door.

[Randy]

Wretch's picture makes a pretty interesting point. Josh's outside shooting doesn't look as bad, if he would take those shots from the right area. If you figure that picture is like the lower half of a clock, from 3-4 (right baseline) he's pretty poor. (I count 2 green and about 15 red) From 4-5:30, looks like a lot more green compared to the red than in the baseline area.I count about 17 green and 18 red in that area. From 6 to say 8 is his second best area, while 8-9 (left baseline) he pretty bad again. Be really interesting to see how he shows up in each quadrant. If he would at least stay in the area he can shoot from, it would probably imrove his percetnage a lot. Also, he would be probably better off if he actually did take more 3's compared to long twos since you get more points per shot. Part of the problem is he is pretty indescriminate about where he shoots from going to his weakenss almost as much as his strength.

So, why doesn't Josh learn from. Well, for one thing he's pretty busy setting Al up for easy baskets.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Randy

[Admin]

Josh Smith is not dumb. That's a very harsh criticism. Does he make bad decisions, and take bad shots, sure. Who doesn't? Fact is, he's an 18 point, 8 rebound, 4 assist, 2 block, 1 steal every night guy. Anyone NBA player that can do that is not dumb.

Yep Josh is in no way dumb, he's just stubborn and wants to have things his way and he makes poor decisions sometimes but he also makes amazing plays. And while we don't like his shot selection, I can handle him shooting those 3's from time to time when he's hitting them at 35% but if he's struggling to shoot them then he needs to avoid them like the plague.

[Admin]

You also have to realize that a lot of the time that Josh is out there, he's setting up and entry pass to Al or Zaza or whomever else in the paint, or he's reversing the ball around the perimeter for an open 3. Yes he does take way too many outside shots for my taste but when he's not shooting he's not just camped out out there ala Tolliver or Deshawn.

[drzachary]

I don't buy the "inefficency" argument either. He's top 25 in the league in player efficiency. I'm past the ill-advised jump shots. That's not going to change. I look at his whole body of work during the games, and he makes us a better team.

Top 25 in player efficiency? No. You are not talking about Josh Smith.

[Admin]

Top 25 in player efficiency? No. You are not talking about Josh Smith.

Actually Josh is EXACTLY 25th in Player Efficiency. Al Horford on the other hand is 8th.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp

[Bahamut]

I bet each of those X's is really 10 X's stacked on top of each other.

MID-RANGE SHAWTY!!!

[Wretch]

You also have to realize that a lot of the time that Josh is out there, he's setting up and entry pass to Al or Zaza or whomever else in the paint, or he's reversing the ball around the perimeter for an open 3. Yes he does take way too many outside shots for my taste but when he's not shooting he's not just camped out out there ala Tolliver or Deshawn.

True, but in Drew's Motion Offense^TM, everybody is responsible for moving the ball. So he's not excused from chucking. Just because it comes through him, that doesn't excuse him from launching it; and it goes without saying that Drew should be flogged if he's encouraging this. Moreover, those shots early in the clock and the dribble fadeaways when he takes control of the ball...after he's been cut off and played to shoot it? Yeah...those are all J-Smoove.

Regardless of how you look at it, he's shooting 32%, on a bad shot, that constitutes 40% of his total shots. There is no justification for it. Not even "good josh." The offset of our leading shooter/scorer taking these shots is that our offense as a whole is not as efficient as it should be.

Why would we do anything to slow us down? We have better scorers on the team. Getting the ball to them and letting them shoot should be the priority.

[Wretch]

Moreover, those shots early in the clock and the dribble fadeaways when he takes control of the ball...after he's been cut off and played to shoot it? Yeah...those are all J-Smoove.

^^^Those shots BTW, being the ones that slap the side of the basket and fall straight to the floor.