Who is the current/past Hawk you just did not like?

[Admin]

It was a repeat of a prior post I made on the squawk so that probably accounts for the formatting being OK.

As for lottery picks, which of these guys ever contributed anything beyond a solid role player's contribution for the Hawks?

Rumeal Robinson

Adam Keefe

Jason Terry

Stacey Augmon

DerMarr Johnson

That is whiffing at least on par with:

Marvin Williams

Josh Childress

Shelden Williams

Acie Law

Al Horford

He just didn't have the Boris Diaw, Josh Smith types of midround selections (unless you count Doug Edwards or someone like that).

And, of course, Babcock passed up a great chance at a franchise player when he dealt Pau Gasol to acquire the solid but ultimately sub-star Shareef -- which amounted to a steal of a trade in a head-to-head matchup of Knight and Babcock.

Babcock was terrible at drafting, probably the worst ever over such a long period of time, but he didn't pass up on multiple superstar players and several other absolute stars so to me that counts as more than most of Babcock's mid-round whiffs. But really there's no saving grace for either and we're just choosing between the lesser of two evils.

[Guest]

Oh my...I forgot about Doug Edwards from Florida st. I believe we got him 15th overall...geez..well we were scouting the right team at least but the pick was supposed to be alien Sam I am. Oh and Adam Keefe, well I woulda screwed that draft pick up as well because we took Keefe at 9 overall I think, I would have picked baby Jordan Harold miner myself who I believe went one pick after us. Wow...now I'm reminiscing ...but suddenly it went from hawks basketball to girls in my high school back then lol..wow

[AHF]

Babcock was terrible at drafting, probably the worst ever over such a long period of time, but he didn't pass up on multiple superstar players and several other absolute stars so to me that counts as more than most of Babcock's mid-round whiffs. But really there's no saving grace for either and we're just choosing between the lesser of two evils.

I'll say two things on this: (1) Babcock didn't have the chance to draft as many superstars because he was handed a team that already had a superstar whereas he left Knight a piss-poor lottery team that had no choice but to end up in the lottery for several years after inheriting the Babcock mess. (2) Babcock still passed on plenty of very good players.

I don't give Babcock extra credit for inheriting a team with Dominique Wilkins, Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, Moses Malone etc. and handing off one with Shareef, Jason Terry and Glenn Robinson.

Even with the superior talent base, the list of All-Stars that jumped out at me as people he passed on include:

Pau Gasol (multiple All-Star; traded no non-Atlanta- All-Star)

Tony Parker (multiple All-Star; final MVP)

Amare Stoudemire (multiple All-Star; available for pick dealt for Lo Wright. Quentin Richardson is the player LAC got with the 2nd pick.)

Toni Kukoc (All-Star)

Terrell Brandon (multiple All-Star)

Dale Davis (All-Star)

Sam Cassell (All-Star)

Nick Van Exel (All-Star)

Michael Finley (multiple All-Star)

Theo Ratliff (All-Star; ultimately gave up Deke to get him)

Rashard Lewis (multiple All-Star)

Manu Ginobili (multiple All-Star)

Jamaal Magloire (All-Star)

Andrei Kirilenko (All-Star)

Michael Redd (All-Star)

Gilbert Arenas (multiple All-Star)

Zach Randolph (multiple All-Star)

Joe Johnson (multiple All-Star)

Babcock is firmly on my hate list.

Edited May 31, 2013 by AHF

[Alex]

Joe Johnson.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

One of the greatest single game performances of a Hawk player and his trade lead to us getting 9 up and down years from Josh Smith so it's hard to really hate on Rasheed as a Hawk.

He was 8 - 24 FG that game for 20 points. Sheed was gunning away like he was Kobe. Took 6 threes too ( 1 - 6 ). He did get 5 blocks though, and he did play hard. I always said that the player that Josh wanted to be like, was Rasheed Wallace, and not Shawn Kemp.

[MaceCase]

As for Current?...

Quiz: Which NBA player will lead the 2013 NBA Playoffs in 3-point percentage?

~lw3

First he was like

Then he was like

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It was a repeat of a prior post I made on the squawk so that probably accounts for the formatting being OK.

As for lottery picks, which of these guys ever contributed anything beyond a solid role player's contribution for the Hawks?

Rumeal Robinson

Adam Keefe

Jason Terry

Stacey Augmon

DerMarr Johnson

That is whiffing at least on par with:

Marvin Williams

Josh Childress

Shelden Williams

Acie Law

Al Horford

He just didn't have the Boris Diaw, Josh Smith types of midround selections (unless you count Doug Edwards or someone like that).

And, of course, Babcock passed up a great chance at a franchise player when he dealt Pau Gasol to acquire the solid but ultimately sub-star Shareef -- which amounted to a steal of a trade in a head-to-head matchup of Knight and Babcock.

JT was a much better player in Atlanta, than people give him credit for. Everybody knew he was more of a combo guard who was forced to play the point. But he did have a year in which he averaged 7.4 assists. And the dude could score the basketball.

Babcock's failure to put any kind of bench around Terry and Reef, was the true downfall of those Hawks teams in the early 2000s.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Oh my...I forgot about Doug Edwards from Florida st. I believe we got him 15th overall...geez..well we were scouting the right team at least but the pick was supposed to be alien Sam I am.Oh and Adam Keefe, well I woulda screwed that draft pick up as well because we took Keefe at 9 overall I think, I would have picked baby Jordan Harold miner myself who I believe went one pick after us.Wow...now I'm reminiscing ...but suddenly it went from hawks basketball to girls in my high school back then lol..wow

If memory serves me correct, it was Doug who got all of the player awards off of that team. But he turned out to be the worst pro player out of everybody on that Florida St. team. That team not only had Edwards and Cassell, they also had Charlie Ward running the point, and Bob Sura coming off the bench as the 6th man.

[AHF]

JT was the best of a very bad lot of lottery picks.

[NBASupes]

J.R. Rider

SAR

Glenn Robinson

[Admin]

I'll say two things on this: (1) Babcock didn't have the chance to draft as many superstars because he was handed a team that already had a superstar whereas he left Knight a piss-poor lottery team that had no choice but to end up in the lottery for several years after inheriting the Babcock mess. (2) Babcock still passed on plenty of very good players. I don't give Babcock extra credit for inheriting a team with Dominique Wilkins, Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, Moses Malone etc. and handing off one with Shareef, Jason Terry and Glenn Robinson. Even with the superior talent base, the list of All-Stars that jumped out at me as people he passed on include: Pau Gasol (multiple All-Star; traded no non-Atlanta- All-Star)Tony Parker (multiple All-Star; final MVP)Amare Stoudemire (multiple All-Star; available for pick dealt for Lo Wright. Quentin Richardson is the player LAC got with the 2nd pick.)Toni Kukoc (All-Star)Terrell Brandon (multiple All-Star)Dale Davis (All-Star)Sam Cassell (All-Star)Nick Van Exel (All-Star)Michael Finley (multiple All-Star)Theo Ratliff (All-Star; ultimately gave up Deke to get him)Rashard Lewis (multiple All-Star)Manu Ginobili (multiple All-Star)Jamaal Magloire (All-Star)Andrei Kirilenko (All-Star)Michael Redd (All-Star)Gilbert Arenas (multiple All-Star)Zach Randolph (multiple All-Star)Joe Johnson (multiple All-Star) Babcock is firmly on my hate list.

I assure you I'm not giving him a pass, just saying BK probably cost us a legit shot at a modern perennial contender with his mistake of passing on Iggy, CP3 or Deron, Roy, Stuckey, etc. obviously that's a simplified view but even landing 2 of those guys to pair with JJ, Josh and Al and you're talking about a potential champion.

[Admin]

He was 8 - 24 FG that game for 20 points. Sheed was gunning away like he was Kobe. Took 6 threes too ( 1 - 6 ). He did get 5 blocks though, and he did play hard. I always said that the player that Josh wanted to be like, was Rasheed Wallace, and not Shawn Kemp.

Sorry that was not worded correctly, I meant single game as in if memory serves that's the only game he played for us and it's one of the greatest performances ever as Hawk under those circumstances.

[Admin]

JT was a much better player in Atlanta, than people give him credit for. Everybody knew he was more of a combo guard who was forced to play the point. But he did have a year in which he averaged 7.4 assists. And the dude could score the basketball.

Babcock's failure to put any kind of bench around Terry and Reef, was the true downfall of those Hawks teams in the early 2000s.

JT crapped his legacy and anything good he did as a Hawk down the toilet when he trashed the Hawks and Atlanta upon leaving and has only been a giant douche nozzle regarding the team ever since.

[Dejay]

Manning, Doris Diaw (sandbagged here and complained only to play hard after being traded to Phoenix), and (insert draft pick here) made by Billy Knight sans Osh and Horford; even though Osh isn't too far behind.

[Bonkers]

I remember Boris Diaw was like the complete opposite of Josh

He would never shoot the ball even when it was a easy shot he would just pass it to someone else lol

Edited May 31, 2013 by Bonkers

[capstone21]

JT was a much better player in Atlanta, than people give him credit for. Everybody knew he was more of a combo guard who was forced to play the point. But he did have a year in which he averaged 7.4 assists. And the dude could score the basketball.

Babcock's failure to put any kind of bench around Terry and Reef, was the true downfall of those Hawks teams in the early 2000s.

JT was lined up with Jim Jackson who is a perfect compliment for him. A big sg who can handle and pass the ball.

[Dejay]

Oh yeah, can I add Pete Babcock and Billy Knight to the list? In my humble opinion, they should be the most hated Hawks of all time. As much as I couldn't stand Babcock, I'll give a slight edge to BK over Babs in terms of pure hatred because while Babs was incompetent (especially in the draft), BK was aloof and obnoxious ('I believe I'm the resident basketball expert here'). You can be that way when you're drafting future All-Stars while sipping from champagne after the team wins another title; not so much when Marvin Williams shows less heart than any starter I can find on Miller Grove High's squad. Ask a Jazz fan what he/she thinks of him and they'd probably start dropping f-bombs.

That's why I continue to piss and moan on this board about the All-World team we could've had here if anyone other than BK was running the show. First off, we wouldn't have had a sourpuss coach who bristled at playing the young guys while refusing to change his strategies, no matter how often it failed. Bobby Sura would've been shut down instead of padding his stats for a contract elsewhere, while helping a doormat team win unnecessary games down the stretch that cost them a legitimate shot at Dwight Howard. And even if that wasn't the case (which it was), who on this board was clamoring for Josh Childress over Iguodala or Luol Deng? And do we really need to go there with Mr. Candace Parker?

If any of us were in charge of the draft, Chris Paul or Deron Williams would've been here to form the best backcourt in the sport, alongside JJ. It would've have taken nearly as long to make the playoffs if the right guys were chosen when the team was losing 50+ games a year. Even when they finally did make the playoffs, did anyone take them seriously? Do you think we'd still be seeing Osh continue to throw up 25-footers if we had a legit point guard there to snatch the ball away? Do you think we'd be hearing 'MVP!' chants in our home arena when an opposing superstar visits, when we have two such candidates in house?

Both GMs (along with Kasten and Sund's reluctance to make needed moves) are the core reasons why this franchise is regarded as a joke to the rest of the sports world. The ownership group would've have been bleeding $$$ to the point where they sold out the Thrashers if there weren't such buffoonery going on in the front office. Nique would've been a first-ballot HOFer with rings on his fingers had Kasten went with Rolando Blackmon and Larry Nance instead of the jabrones he picked. Smitty, Mookie, and Deke would've given the Bulls more than just a five-game series in the semis had they had some more help off the bench and firepower from the wing; help that was readily available in the form of Sam Cassell and Michael Finley.

That's where most of my hatred is focused. Notsomuch on the players but on the guys who got us to the point where we're hoping/wishing/dreaming/praying/begging for CP3 to leave LA and for Dwight to come home...

Edited May 31, 2013 by Dejay