Al Horford, building around, free agency, and such

[HawkItus]

And exactly what has either won? Neither one got out of the 1st round this year right? That my point! You keep talking in these absolutes when arguing for your plan but the reality is that your plan is just as flawed and ultimately there is a lot of timing, luck and Good gm'ing that lead to championships.

So true and outside of Duncan and Kobe, what Superstars have won titles for their original teams?

[Peoriabird]

I think there are actually 2 problems here that people keep putting into 1 large one. There is no one on this team that the fans are drawn to as THE guy. People like Al, but he is not that one guy. Second, fans are sick of being middle of the pack. If I were to say I predict we make the playoffs this year and lose in the first round or win the first round only to be crushed in the 2nd not a soul on this board would bat an eye as a crazy prediction. We have gotten used to mediocrity. There isn't much to cheer for over the years. When this team had 'Nique, there was always a chance, that hope his ability could push this team over the hump. It was amazing to watch him play and that playoff game against Bird is one I will never forget. Will vs will....this team hasn't seen anything close to that since he left. So the problem is two fold. One we have no player on this team the fans gravitate toward as wanting to watch. Which could be solved by answering problem 2...not being in contention for anything more than a middle of the pack season. Remember winning cures a lot of things.

Everyone understand that we need that savior but there are numerous ways to get that savior! Just ask Houston!

[noble]

Everyone understand that we need that savior but there are numerous ways to get that savior! Just ask Houston!

That is my point. Building a winning team can and will fix a lot of things, but right now things sure do seem bleak. I would love to at least know we are definitely rebuilding or really trying to build a winner. This way I don't have to speculate over the crazy signings we have and have not made this offseason.

[Peoriabird]

That is my point. Building a winning team can and will fix a lot of things, but right now things sure do seem bleak. I would love to at least know we are definitely rebuilding or really trying to build a winner. This way I don't have to speculate over the crazy signings we have and have not made this offseason.

We just have to trust in DF and hope for some good fortunes in the future.

[noble]

Yea, I would love to trust DF, but remember who OWNS the team. They are who I don't trust.

[EazyRoc]

So true and outside of Duncan and Kobe, what Superstars have won titles for their original teams?

Wade, Paul Pierce, Dirk, the GOAT, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon to name a few off the top of my head.

[Wretch]

And exactly what has either won? Neither one got out of the 1st round this year right? That my point! You keep talking in these absolutes when arguing for your plan but the reality is that your plan is just as flawed and ultimately there is a lot of timing, luck and Good gm'ing that lead to championships.

Whether or not they've won anything is inconsequential as far as I'm concerned. You either...because you'd love to have either of them right now. The potential lineups is something to consider...because who KNOWS how far they would have taken us? The more valuable conversation though is the FACT that we would have had an asset FAR more valuable than Marvin Duck Williams. So, we'd either have CP3/Deron going into those playoffs or we would have been able to deal them if they wanted out...instead of begging someone to take Marvin.

...and I'm going to say this again about Horford. You can't support how we built this current team and not support the lottery. That's like, saying you hate the mafia and all they stand for...but you spend the blood money they give you with no problem. Horford is a product of, and an asset obtained by, being a suck-ass team.

Given that we have rights to give him more money than anyone else and he has some sort of personal and professional investment in the franchise, I don't take issue with saying that he's our free agent and that it hold some weight as we approach his UFAcy. Relatively speaking, it will be easier for us to bring in the right talent to convince him to stay as opposed to another team's ability to pry him away (see CP3).

I would just as soon not risk that on some spare parts set on the side of the NBA highway though...

[Wretch]

Wade, Paul Pierce, Dirk, the GOAT, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon to name a few off the top of my head.

Don't forget Iverson, Ewing, Reggie Miller and others who MADE the ECF's or the Finals. People KEEP tossing out championship, but dammit man...I'd like to just land a player that can take us to the final freaking four!

[Wretch]

The list also grows if you include teams that traded their own lottery pick for an established player. Like I keep saying, there's more than just, "Draft a supastaaaah and winz it all!"

[hawkman]

You can't build a team 'around' Horf and expect any better results than what we've had over the past few seasons. He's not the kind of player to single-handedly turn your franchise around. He's a great complimentary player on a contender though. I'm curious as to how he will respond being the guy next season though. I hope he has learned to operate in the post with his back to the basket.

[Peoriabird]

Whether or not they've won anything is inconsequential as far as I'm concerned. You either...because you'd love to have either of them right now. The potential lineups is something to consider...because who KNOWS how far they would have taken us? The more valuable conversation though is the FACT that we would have had an asset FAR more valuable than Marvin Duck Williams. So, we'd either have CP3/Deron going into those playoffs or we would have been able to deal them if they wanted out...instead of begging someone to take Marvin.

If I'm not mistaken, both Williams and Paul are on their 2nd teams and the teams that they left didn't make the playoffs despite acquiring asset from their sale.

[Peoriabird]

...and I'm going to say this again about Horford. You can't support how we built this current team and not support the lottery. That's like, saying you hate the mafia and all they stand for...but you spend the blood money they give you with no problem. Horford is a product of, and an asset obtained by, being a suck-ass team.

I think you know the difference between a team without good personnel stuck in the lottery verses tanking or a team getting rid of their asset with the sole purpose of having a poor record

[Peoriabird]

Relatively speaking, it will be easier for us to bring in the right talent to convince him to stay as opposed to another team's ability to pry him away (see CP3).

Again CP3 is currently on his second team so someone must have pried him away from his original team.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Peoriabird

[NBASupes]

You can't build a team 'around' Horf and expect any better results than what we've had over the past few seasons. He's not the kind of player to single-handedly turn your franchise around. He's a great complimentary player on a contender though. I'm curious as to how he will respond being the guy next season though. I hope he has learned to operate in the post with his back to the basket.

This is a false statement, if you are building a team, put the players in place to make him a better player.

A combo guard at PG

Josh Smith at PF and Al at center is NOT building a team around Al.

[ATLSmith]

You can't build a team 'around' Horf and expect any better results than what we've had over the past few seasons. He's not the kind of player to single-handedly turn your franchise around. He's a great complimentary player on a contender though. I'm curious as to how he will respond being the guy next season though. I hope he has learned to operate in the post with his back to the basket.

Not sure I agree with the first part, but I too want to see how he plays next year in a different system and without Smoove on the team.

[Wretch]

Again CP3 in currently on his second team so someone must have pried him away from his original team.

Yes, but New Orleans still has an asset to show for it.

I think you know the difference between a team without good personnel stuck in the lottery verses tanking or a team getting rid of their asset with the sole purpose of having a poor record

I think that is a matter of toe-MAY-toe and toe-MAH-toe...the net result is the same thing. In the case of the team getting rid of all of their assets...unless we were to DUMP Horford, we'd get something back. Likely a good something considering his value right now.

Not saying we should...but what would you rather have RIGHT NOW?

Smoove signing in Detroit and us getting...nothing? Or dealing him, say 4 years ago when Orlando blew us out, for something we could use now?

We accomplished the same thing in that window that we will accomplish by building around Horford without an elite compliment - nada.

[Wretch]

This is a false statement, if you are building a team, put the players in place to make him a better player.

A combo guard at PG

Josh Smith at PF and Al at center is NOT building a team around Al.

What do you need to put around Wade, LeBron, Duncan, Rose, Durant, Carmelo, Deron, or CP3 to make them "better?" I don't believe in 1 man shows, but if I have my choice of a cornerstone...I want a guy that creates his own shot (preferably somewhere in the paint) or creates for others.

...and I know someone's going to tell me how much they hate Carmelo and would rather have Horford. lol

[Peoriabird]

Yes, but New Orleans still has an asset to show for it.

But if the asset turn out to be not as good, you lose in that deal!

[Peoriabird]

I think that is a matter of toe-MAY-toe and toe-MAH-toe...the net result is the same thing. In the case of the team getting rid of all of their assets...unless we were to DUMP Horford, we'd get something back. Likely a good something considering his value right now.

Nope it isn't the same...People have been suggesting that we trade Horford because as long as he is on the team we would be too good to finish with one of the worse records

[Wretch]

But if the asset turn out to be not as good, you lose in that deal!

I would rather have it than NOT though.

(Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! THRUST!!!!!!!! :D )