Al Horford, building around, free agency, and such

[Wretch]

You are making a lot of assumptions my friend and most are worse case scenario type assumptions. I know a lot of people around are angry and fed up...Quite frankly even I am annoyed by this team's fascination with guard myself but I am willing to give DF a chance. So let see how this plays out before organizing a take over.

So, no worries about Horford right now? That's how you're looking at it? The nitpicking analyst in me can't help but think, "Wow...I don't want that to get out of control. That would SUCK."

You're absolutely right and it is an assumption and it's worst case scenario. But, there is one guaranteed thing here...as of right now, Horford is guaranteed money through 2016. He's what...27? This is his prime...and his next contract will be the last significant one he'll see. Dude is a collegiate champion...you know he wants to win. I wouldn't say we did it for him this year...not with these signings anyway.

This is our centerpiece and all of that is a sticky ball of facts to fool around with.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Wretch

[Swatguy]

So, no worries about Horford right now? That's how you're looking at it? The nitpicking analyst in me can't help but think, "Wow...I don't want that to get out of control. That would SUCK."

You're absolutely right and it is an assumption and it's worst case scenario. But, there is one guaranteed thing here...as of right now, Horford is guaranteed money through 2016. He's what...27? This is his prime...and his next contract will be the last significant one he'll see. Dude is a collegiate champion...you know he wants to win. I wouldn't say we did it for him this year...not with these signings anyway.

This is our centerpiece and all of that is a sticky ball of facts to fool around with.

No center picked up. Al ain't happy. You think he wants to play through this build? I doubt it. Probably wants a trade.

[hawkman]

I'm willing to bet the same people who think Horf can/will be a superstar were still holding out hope for Marvin's breakthrough after his first few seasons here. I want to eat crow on this one because it means the success of the Hawks, but I think I know how this story ends by now.

[NBASupes]

I'm willing to bet the same people who think Horf can/will be a superstar were still holding out hope for Marvin's breakthrough after his first few seasons here. I want to eat crow on this one because it means the success of the Hawks, but I think I know how this story ends by now.

We get it, you don't think Al can be a superstar, good for you. I don't agree. I think it's possible. Not with Jeff Teague but with a PG who is a playmaker and excel at the PnR.

[Diesel]

Y'know, yeah. LOL. Not saying it will happen, is likely to happen, or that that we will draft Shaqobe Jordan and win a title...but all things being equal, would you rather...

Enjoy the lottery sufferings of Boston and have this after 5-6 years:

Or, have this every 2 years for 6 years:

The net results of drafting after 4-5 years is still lottery pick assets that can be flipped. You'll have something. The net result of a treadmill team every couple of seasons is what exactly? Not to derail this too far into tank/anti-tank...but you will have something to show for and teams have been using that sort of thing to draft or deal for franchise changing talent for years.

While I agree with you on Horford...that's another matter. This idea that all "treadmill" teams do is lose high and restart is the mindset that previous Hawks teams have given you. What if we flip Millsap for a player or pick during the season? Korver too?

The problem is that too many Hawks fans don't see Hawks assets as being tradable assets.

You know my Philosophy is to always trade up...not down.

We are horrid at getting good free agents at a reasonable price because of the way we treat our free agents. Therefore....trading is the best way for us to get talent.

[Wretch]

While I agree with you on Horford...that's another matter. This idea that all "treadmill" teams do is lose high and restart is the mindset that previous Hawks teams have given you. What if we flip Millsap for a player or pick during the season? Korver too?

The problem is that too many Hawks fans don't see Hawks assets as being tradable assets.

You know my Philosophy is to always trade up...not down.

We are horrid at getting good free agents at a reasonable price because of the way we treat our free agents. Therefore....trading is the best way for us to get talent.

I think this is my biggest problem. I don't trust Danny Ferry. I'm usually the kind of person that likes to walk the fence and give a guy a chance. I really try not to jump to conclusions (or if I can help it, make assumptions). It took me FOREVER to condemn BK. At the same time, I wasn't going apeshit for him dumping everybody (or making the no-brainer Josh pick).

In the same way, I was just cautious and reserved about DF. The only thing I could really judge him on was Cleveland and that's what I was looking for. To me, he just struck me as a guy that would do anything it took to win. Which is good...except when you'll SETTLE for anything.

I just don't trust him. Dude, I will *****NEVER**** forget the day you dropped that bomb the on board about Marvin. On one hand, I was like...nawww... On the other, I just couldn't fight that nagging feeling that, "Damn...what if he's right? And the more I looked, the more I couldn't deny the flaws with Marv."

It's the same way with me and Ferry. I can't tell you what it is, and it's really hard to put into words, but it just reminds me of Babcock. This way of doing things like Big Dog, Rider/Jackson, the things that look good on paper or in theory like Gasol for Reef, and all the while being blinded by a "MUST MAKE THE PLAYOFFS" attitude... Dude I can't shake it and all I can picture are these weak-ass mid first round draft picks and 4-2 second round ceilings. Lol, even a busted up Bynum reminds me of the Ratliff situation.

People are quick to point out, oh just give it some time...but dude, this is it man. This is the team, lol. I don't see a plan here for long term. I see two year windows...and while we think that's good...what's the point if it's a different 2nd round team every 2 years? And what has he shown, here or in Cleveland, that makes you think it'll really be different...

Morevoer, I can't shake the idea that Ferry and WLOC-master Gearon have this master plan and they're doing the evil mastermind laugh behind closed doors. I mean read this dude:

I look at us, and you measure a team on its results: How are we doing vs. the league? There are three teams the last three years that have advanced past the first round. The Lakers—who everybody loves the Lakers—the Celtics and the Atlanta Hawks. It’s not the Dallas Mavericks, it’s not the Miami Heat, it’s not the New York Knicks, it’s not the Oklahoma City Thunder, it’s not the Orlando Magic. It’s just those three. Have we been able to win a championship? No. But our goal is to be as competitive and entertaining as possible and it’s unrealistic to every year have the only measure of your success as winning a championship because one in 30 do it. So you keep getting better and competing each year in order to try to complete for that championship.

He ACTUALLY said that and thinks we're on par with the contenders. We BLASTED him for this shit a few years ago...but now it's OK? To be quiet and extend that to a GM that thinks the same bullshit? I'm looking at Danny thinking, "Y'know...he strikes me as a guy that'll drink that kind of Kool-Aid." I REALLY can't shake the idea when I imagine them behind closed doors and all of a sudden...quietness. And what has the ASG done since then? Nothing but be quiet. Deceptively quiet. I'll believe change when I see it.

I really think we're headed for more good but not great and losing but not losers....

Edited July 9, 2013 by Wretch

[Wretch]

No center picked up. Al ain't happy. You think he wants to play through this build? I doubt it. Probably wants a trade.

A lot could go wrong. As a GM...what do you do here? We took this risk a few years ago too. Most of us were saying that one of either Horford or Smoove needed to go. Well, we let Smoove walk out the door. Who knows what we could have had for him, but we pretty much saw the ceiling when we got obliterated by the Magic. That was a big turning point for me with this era BTW.

That's when I was done and wanted at least part of the core moved.

Now we're sitting here looking at Horford. I'm assuming the worst, like people assume the best...but still. Best case for us is what exactly in 3 years? Worst case for us is what in the same time period?

If I'm a GM and I'm looking at that, NO...I'm not dealing Horford right now. But I tell you what, mid-season? Nothing looking good? I start listening. You're not getting anything of value at a year left on his deal. Not saying I would just pull the trigger on anything, but i would certainly start listening.

[Wretch]

I'm willing to bet the same people who think Horf can/will be a superstar were still holding out hope for Marvin's breakthrough after his first few seasons here. I want to eat crow on this one because it means the success of the Hawks, but I think I know how this story ends by now.

Personally, I think Al Horford can be incredible. He just needs the right compliment. Problem we're going to need to solve in 3 years? He just needs the right compliment.......