Danny Ferry is slowly destroying the Atlanta fan base..

[Diesel]

Millsap is a great player..whatever Utah did win was because they had him. We didn't give the guy a max deal or anything.Did you expect him to make Utah into the best team in the west?Are we expecting him to be our savior on a 2 year 19 million contract? He's a good player..complaining about Millsap should be the least of your worries.

You just said that winning and analytics go hand and Hand.

Well, Utah had both Millsap and DMC the alltime great... Not to mention Korver... and if we get him Mo Williams. They couldn't win a doggone thing. They did worse than us when all we did was play ISOJOE ball. High analytics... NO WIN....

The connection between advanced analytics and winning is busted for basketball. A low adv. analytics guy like Carmelo can will his team more easily than Millsap can. Because Basketball works better when you have players with star power. Not just guys who look good on paper.

[supermariowest]

Uhm... Millsap & Utah. Millsap is every stathead's wet dream. Shoots over 50% from the field. Smart player, hardworker... But Utah didn't win a damn thing.

First of all, I should point out that I'm not talking about winning championships. I'm talking about winning in a more general sense. My guess is that you'll suggest that we should only be talking about winning championships. Who led the league in PER and win shares in each of the past two seasons? Lebron. Dwyane ranked among the best in each of those categories as well. Again, a player can be a stathead's wet dream AND a superstar.The argument I'm making: Teams consisting of stathead type players tend to win more games than other teams.And your argument is this: Because the Utah Jazz did not win a championship while Millsap was on their team, there is no correlation between analytics and winning. That's a poor argument and it suggests that you don't know what the term correlation means.Once more, Ferry is not a BK clone. BK looked for players who are long and athletic but these traits are not correlated with winning.

[thescout5]

ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY! As a Hawks fan yes I am disappointed we didn't land any big free agents. I was disappointed in not getting Bynum but he is a risk and if he played well you can bet the Hawks won't get any decent draft choice next year. A big man is the most valuable commodity in basketball but I guess DF didn't want to take that risk.

We have to play for the lottery now is the way i see it.This means not winning many basketball games which I will gladly put up with if it mean building a team that can compete for championships year in year out. there is always a risk of not getting the high choice you want in the draft or the player does't pan out but at least will have taken the chance to get a potential star player. Would you rather keep making the playoffs and being bounced in the 1st or 2nd like we have the last 6 yrs? I'm glad to see DF isn't signing players to long term contracts and just maybe he can sell some and get more picks to build for the future.

Edited July 11, 2013 by thescout5

[ViperXX79]

I'm sad that I read this entire thread but Diesel always brings the funny(like The Room funny) so it wasn't too bad.

[RWF]

How about Korver?

Did Korver break the bank? Would he tie up cap space like Josh Smith would have? I would rather have Korver. He knows his role. Josh obviously doesn't since he likes to have shooting contests and PG competitions on the court during games.

Edited July 11, 2013 by RWF

[Watchman]

ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY!

I didn't even know they had an NBA franchise. Hmm.

[Johnnybravo4]

We had a year to figure out how to get Howard. Not to mention we had his best friend on the team. We had the weakest game of all of the other suitors. We were like the nerd who was scared to ask the captain of the cheerleading team to the prom.

[Diesel]

First of all, I should point out that I'm not talking about winning championships. I'm talking about winning in a more general sense. My guess is that you'll suggest that we should only be talking about winning championships. Who led the league in PER and win shares in each of the past two seasons? Lebron. Dwyane ranked among the best in each of those categories as well. Again, a player can be a stathead's wet dream AND a superstar.The argument I'm making: Teams consisting of stathead type players tend to win more games than other teams.And your argument is this: Because the Utah Jazz did not win a championship while Millsap was on their team, there is no correlation between analytics and winning. That's a poor argument and it suggests that you don't know what the term correlation means.Once more, Ferry is not a BK clone. BK looked for players who are long and athletic but these traits are not correlated with winning.

Same logic. Lebron is the key example of Long, versatile and athletic. Hell, I looked up and he was gaurding Tim Duncan in the finals. Chris Bosh is too. He plays 3, 4 or 5 and plays on the 3 pt line.

See supe... anybody write their name on a box and call it theirs. That Heat team follows BK's mantra to a tee. And last year, they dominated an Advanced Analytics team in the finals and this year they beat an Advanced Analytics team in the finals. That BK is certainly a visionary... right.

OR Maybe...

Somebody was bright enough to figure out if you put three star players on the same team, they will win. Regardless of their advanced analytics.

ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY!

But ROME was built with a plan?@@?!!

[Buzzard]

How about Korver?

Korver at 6 million is a valuable asset. We all know Kyle is one of the top three point shooters in the league. But a under looked value is hIs BBall IQ. He was ranked 11th in TS% and of all the top twenty players in that category: he was ranked fourth in assist % while also getting the 2nd most minutes, only behind Bron.

At 6 million a year; there's at least a 1/2 dozen playoff teams that would love to have Kyle coming off their bench.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Did Korver break the bank? Would he tie up cap space like Josh Smith would have? I would rather have Korver. He knows his role. Josh obviously doesn't since he likes to have shooting contests and PG competitions on the court during games.

Why did we sign a 30 year old Korver to a 4 yr contract if we don't plan on competing for a title??

I mean this is your statement you're attacking.... you said that we shouldn't sign players to long term contracts if we're not vying for a title... Now... you've changed it and put a salary corollary on it??? Come on RWF....What's next, a sexual orientation corollary?

[Diesel]

Korver at 6 million is a valuable asset. We all know Kyle is one of the top three point shooters in the league. But a under looked value is hIs BBall IQ. He was ranked 20th in TS% and of all the top twenty players in that category: he was ranked fourth in assist % while also getting the 2nd most minutes, only behind Bron.

At 6 million a year; there's at least a 1/2 dozen playoff teams that would love to have Kyle coming off their bench.

But why would you want this guy if your plan is to build through the draft. Remember, he's 30. Why would you want to waste his good years if your plan is to build through the draft?? That's what is so befuddling. Guys like RFW say we're not vying for a championship. Everybody here says Just give it time. Danny Says, Lucas will take 2 yrs or more to develop and the news reports that he can't even get out of his current deal for 2 years.

So... if we're so tied to this slow build situation, why are we signing a guy like Korver to a 4 yr deal? Isn't that just wasting capspace? Isn't that just begging us to blow our position in the 2014 draft? Is Korver our next Bob Sura?

[Buzzard]

But why would you want this guy if your plan is to build through the draft. Remember, he's 30. Why would you want to waste his good years if your plan is to build through the draft?? That's what is so befuddling. Guys like RFW say we're not vying for a championship. Everybody here says Just give it time. Danny Says, Lucas will take 2 yrs or more to develop and the news reports that he can't even get out of his current deal for 2 years.

So... if we're so tied to this slow build situation, why are we signing a guy like Korver to a 4 yr deal? Isn't that just wasting capspace? Isn't that just begging us to blow our position in the 2014 draft? Is Korver our next Bob Sura?

Valuable asset. Enough said.

[taz]

But why would you want this guy if your plan is to build through the draft. Remember, he's 30. Why would you want to waste his good years if your plan is to build through the draft?? That's what is so befuddling. Guys like RFW say we're not vying for a championship. Everybody here says Just give it time. Danny Says, Lucas will take 2 yrs or more to develop and the news reports that he can't even get out of his current deal for 2 years.So... if we're so tied to this slow build situation, why are we signing a guy like Korver to a 4 yr deal? Isn't that just wasting capspace? Isn't that just begging us to blow our position in the 2014 draft? Is Korver our next Bob Sura?

Cause KK is a legit good guy that can teach young guys how to act on the road and at home. He's there for his intangibles tooPlus he came back because his family apparently loves the ATL

[ag82]

I find all of this hilarious. DF did everything possible to free up enough space and money to lure D12 and CP3. If he didn't do that, you guys would have freaked out.

He can't make those guys sign here. All you can do is set yourself up to have the opportunity. Those guys not wanting to play in Atlanta can't be put on DF. The worst part about the D12/CP3 thing was all the time we wasted on it, which probably ruined our chances with some other FAs. But again, it had to be done to please the fan base and for that 1% chance that both of them decided to play here.

Now we're on to plan B, which seems pretty clear. We are taking in good, smart players on reasonable contracts that can be used as assets. We are going to continue to be a factor in every Free Agency and Trading deadline because we have the assets to make things happen. We are not going into a total tank mode, but we are going to stay relevant while we try to make the right moves without handicapping our future.

Joe and Marvin got traded out of seemingly nowhere. Korver signed out of nowhere. None of us know exactly how this is going to play out. Just have the tiniest bit of patience and watch this thing come together. No, we aren't going to win a championship this year, but our future is pretty damn bright.

Just go become heat fans if you need instant gratification. Why do I feel like the only one who is excited about watching a team being built like this? This is fantastic.

Edited July 11, 2013 by ag82

[txsting]

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have traded Joe. It was time. However, in trading Joe... Ferry got us nothing back. Couldn't even get Marshon Brooks. All we got was capspace that we have since squandered.

If the Hawks were so Terrible as a group.. I mean everybody hated Josh. Everybody hated Teague..

Then why are we more respectful of the work that Larry Drew did? People applauded Ferry for replacing a .557 coach for an assistant who has never won a game??

Ferry doesn't seem to have a plan. One minute he states he wants good value, good guys. The next, he's courting Jennings and Ellis and Bynum.

Good lord. There is no such thing as a plan in the way that you are thinking. You are competing against 29 other teams for everything. You can't just look at a list of players, decide which ones you want, and then buy them. The best plan you can have is to set a clear vision and mission and use that to guide your decision making. You have to react to the marketplace, and everyone in the market has a different agenda. Some players simply won't be interested in Atlanta.

If you look at what HAS been done (not what was flirted with or rumored), every move fits the vision laid out at the time of his hire. The only player that I can see, other than D12, that we immediately had interest in (calling at 12:01) was Millsap. And we actually landed him. Carroll and Korver and also excellent signings. Zaza is busted and not worth $6M. And I'm glad we're not paying C. Chuckerson $54M to watch him age. Nice draft too. Just because you wanted to move up doesn't mean there was a viable move available. Common sense dictates you don't move up in a bad draft.

You say he's courting Jennings, Ellis and Bynum. I don't see where he has offered a contract to any one of them. I also don't see where said contract is for high dollars or a large number of years. Let's judge the man on his actions, can we? Yes, he has stated some interest, but I think he is hunting for a bargain value. We may be the last man standing with significant cap room in 2013.

Even if we do end of signing a Jennings or an Ellis, but we do so for a limited number of years and/or a bargain price - that fits the vision. Value - tradeable - flexible. Not every player we sign will be an analytics superstar. At some point you do need a player who can put the ball in the basket at the end of a game (such as Ellis, JCrawford, etc).

[supermariowest]

Same logic. Lebron is the key example of Long, versatile and athletic. Hell, I looked up and he was gaurding Tim Duncan in the finals. Chris Bosh is too. He plays 3, 4 or 5 and plays on the 3 pt line.See supe... anybody write their name on a box and call it theirs. That Heat team follows BK's mantra to a tee. And last year, they dominated an Advanced Analytics team in the finals and this year they beat an Advanced Analytics team in the finals. That BK is certainly a visionary... right. OR Maybe... Somebody was bright enough to figure out if you put three star players on the same team, they will win. Regardless of their advanced analytics.

What, because they have Lebron and Bosh they follow BK's mantra? Any GM in the league would be happy to have Lebron. He's not a BK type player, he's just the best player in the league. Bosh is clumsier than he is athletic and putting Bosh at the three point line is like putting Josh out there.So the team with two of the top PER/WS players in the league beat an advanced analytic team in the finals two consecutive years. Notice a trend? (Hint: Teams consisting of stathead type players tend to win more games than other teams.)Three star players ARE three analytic superstars. Figuring out that you should put three star players on the same team is the same thing as figuring out that you should put three advanced stat superstars on the same team. Edited July 11, 2013 by supermariowest

[Vol4ever]

I find all of this hilarious. DF did everything possible to free up enough space and money to lure D12 and CP3. If he didn't do that, you guys would have freaked out. He can't make those guys sign here. All you can do is set yourself up to have the opportunity. Those guys not wanting to play in Atlanta can't be put on DF. The worst part about the D12/CP3 thing was all the time we wasted on it, which probably ruined our chances with some other FAs. But again, it had to be done to please the fan base and for that 1% chance that both of them decided to play here.Now we're on to plan B, which seems pretty clear. We are taking in good, smart players on reasonable contracts that can be used as assets. We are going to continue to be a factor in every Free Agency and Trading deadline because we have the assets to make things happen. We are not going into a total tank mode, but we are going to stay relevant while we try to make the right moves without handicapping our future. Joe and Marvin got traded out of seemingly nowhere. Korver signed out of nowhere. None of us know exactly how this is going to play out. Just have the tiniest bit of patience and watch this thing come together. No, we aren't going to win a championship this year, but our future is pretty damn bright. Just go become heat fans if you need instant gratification. Why do I feel like the only one who is excited about watching a team being built like this? This is fantastic.

BS, DF got paid big money to be the guy that brought those players to the ATL. He did not get the job done with an entire roster cleared and the most cap space in the league. Y'all can drink all the kool-aid in the world and capspace in 2014, 15, or 16 is going to matter? I'm not buying it.

[Admin]

I think people don't give Chalmers enough credit. Lebron is the best player in the league and the advanced statistics reflect this. The other guys on that team who might fall under long/athletic are Bosh and Birdman. I'd argue that Bosh is as clumsy as he is athletic. They are undersized at center but I don't think they are a BK team.

Agreed, Chalmers is a very underrated player.

I was going to say that SMW I think you're a fantastic new poster but I see that you've been a member for a few years but just recently started posting. Darn shame as you have a very level head about you and seem to be very knowledgable as well.

[Guest]

We had a year to figure out how to get Howard. Not to mention we had his best friend on the team. We had the weakest game of all of the other suitors. We were like the nerd who was scared to ask the captain of the cheerleading team to the prom.

Whaaaat? DF got rid of Joe and Marvin to have space to be in a position to go after D12 and CP3. Hawks wouldn't sniff an interview otherwise. Without DF I doiubt very much the Hawks would have gotten a face to face with D12.Say it with me: DWIGHT. DID. NOT. WANT. TO. COME. HERE.Without

[ag82]

This is such crazy talk. DF is a failure because he couldnt convince Dwight Howard, the most emotionally and mentally confused star player that exists, to come to Atlanta, a city he has never shown interest in? This is not a guy who is sentimental about his hometown, he has shown that time and time again.

And what is this garbage about his best friend? Dwight has given lists of teams and players he wants to play for/with and never during any of that time did he ever mention Josh Smith or Atlanta. Hell, DF got him to consider coming to Atlanta despite all of that stuff.

Edited July 11, 2013 by ag82