What happened to all the Millsap haters?

[ATLscrubLove]

The first day we signed Paul I knew it was a great move... We got him for an awesome price and I knew he would fit well. I remember there were many opposed to the move because he was a "B grade" type player and everyone was pissed at Ferry. Maybe this was mainly the Smoove lovers... But there is a reason Paul Millsap made the all star team his first year as a Hawks and Smoove could not do it in 9.

Edited January 31, 2014 by ATLscrubLove

[macdaddy]

I don't really remember many people hating the move but it seemed like a no brainer to most. Even before this year Millsap did almost everything Josh does just better. Josh may be a better passer but the things you really want your PF doing Millsap is so underrated

[IheartVolt]

Yep do not remember any people hating the move , maybe some uncertainty , but not hate for the signing.. I remember someone posted stats and it seemed to ease some of the negative folks.

[Guest]

Why not call them out by name? Seems like the most sensible thing to me. If the opposite happened and Josh Smith became an all-star and we struggled then they would be gloating. Of course that did not happen because it was foolish to think so.

But yeah, they are quiet. Surprising what happens when the number of games increases and we get back to what the level headed posters thought to begin with.

[IheartVolt]

Who are these nay sayers?

[Ebert]

They are probably as happy as you or me to have Paul Millsap. If they are Atlanta Hawks fans, I would say they don't really care a lot about this while they are enjoying Paul too.

[macdaddy]

What's the point? The whole purpose of being here is to waste time and post our expert 'opinions' for the sake of entertaining ourselves and not driving our significant other crazy talking about something they don't care about. We've all been wrong on countless occasions so unless someone is just being an asshole what's the point of calling them out. Of course, the calling out the aholes is great entertainment too.

[capstone21]

I didn't hate but I was disappointed we got a pf instead of a Center at the time.

[Sothron]

Was there really anyone that was completely against Millsap? I remember people not liking spending money on a level B player and not rebuilding since we missed out on CP3/Dwight (like myself) but no one I remember was blasting Millsap as a player or saying the contract was horrible.

[Guest]

Who are these nay sayers?

One example: http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/383752-smoove-by/

I don't think people were ripping on Millsap as much as they were crying that the sky was falling from losing Josh.

[Dnice]

Yeah I think there were just concerns about moving Horford reguarly to the 4 and bringing in a 4 last offseason.

[IheartVolt]

Wow one of the board scouts actually said that Josh was better at creating his own offence..lmao how did I miss that thread?? Yes I completely endorse this thread now and give my seal of approval

[IheartVolt]

And also that link above also proves that win shares are a chit stat..carry on

[Bonkers]

One example: http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/383752-smoove-by/

I don't think people were ripping on Millsap as much as they were crying that the sky was falling from losing Josh.

Wow 24 people said Josh made us better

LMAOOO

They need to seek help

[Vol4ever]

I don't remember anyone upset that we signed Sap. Some like myself were disappointed that Ferry didn't get a bigger deal done. I complained loudly that Danny could have made a bigger splash. Some on the board were upset at me,

[HawkItus]

Milsap is +1.5. The offense scored 4.1 more points with him on the floor but gave up 2.6 more points with him on the floor. A net +1.5. Compared to Josh where our offense scored +2.6 more with him on the floor and gave up .6 less with him on the floor for a net of +3.2. The defensive drop concerns me. This isn't because Milsap is a bad defender, Josh just changes many things when he's on the floor defensively that Milsap does not.

Also, Milsap isn't able to score without help which is why his efficiency is higher. Our current issue as currently constructed is we have an entire team of people that rely on others to get theirs. This will lead to a very stagnant offense at times.

Defensively, we have an entire team of people who play solid team concept but don't "make anything happen". What this means is a big drop in the transition game.

So given you accept my premise that the offense will suffer due to a lack of creation and a lack of turnovers/fast breaks and the defense will suffer because of a lack of steals/blocks/turnovers then you must also accept an increase in opponents points per 100 possessions and a drop in team points per 100 possessions.

TheCampster lol

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/fail-gif

Edited January 31, 2014 by sultanofatl

[ag82]

I don't know that I remember many Sap haters necessarily, but there were definitely people who thought he was a downgrade from Josh.

[ag82]

I know Smoove had his bad points but he was a darn good player for the Hawks overall. He is better than Milsap IMHO.

On paper, Josh is once again only 1 point per 50 shots worse than Sap but having Josh on the floor does many, many more things offensively. Passing being one, players having to cheat to stop the cut, etc. Its a very deep basketball discussion that goes far beyond FG% or based single player stats.

I really didn't want to be drawn into another Josh discussion but I wanted to share some advanced stats that show the kind of impact I'm talking about.

In the case of Josh Smith we have 2 important stats for team play. eFG% ON and OFF court for the team as compared with Sap.

eFG% On 52.6% Off 49.8% (Josh effect = +2.8%)

eFG% allowed. On 49.5% Off 49.7% (Josh effect = +.2%) So using this measure of efficiency we see that total FG% of the team differential with the opponent is 3% better with Josh on the floor as opposed to off.

Now using Sap.

eFG% On 50.0% Off 48.0% (Sap effect = +2.0%)

eFG% allowed. On 51.1% Off 48.7% (Sap effect = -2.4%). So using this same measure of efficiency we actually see Utah being .4% better eFG% compared to allowed with Sap off the floor.

Now this is not perfect but it does pose some interesting questions. The data over the course of a year would state the Hawks are better with Smith on the floor and Utah was same or slightly worse with Sap on the floor. This a total team metric.

Now there are many factors, the least of which is not Coaching style. The effect Coach Bud will have means something. In JTB's case he's using a very flawed eyeball test where his view is skewed (mine as well). I will again be interested to see how the offense functions this year and the defense without Smith. Who will it run through in the half court? Who will be the go to?

Millsap is a nice player. Not mad about him at all. But again, you're going to miss Josh when he's gone.

[Admin]

I think the only haters were the Korver haters and there were a lot of you!

[IheartVolt]

I think the only haters were the Korver haters and there were a lot of you!

Not me !! I am always down with the token white guy getting paid! lol