Kudos to Danny Ferry for Two F Grade Drafts.

[Guest]

I probably read your post wrong.

My point was that Ferry hasn't done anything of note in the draft yet. It is too early to really judge.

Tayshaun Prince was the #23 pick overall and was an impact player in the playoffs his rookie season and a starter his second year. That is something to be proud of in the draft. You could view that as a success.

Tony Parker was the #28 overall pick and a starter from day 1 at age 19. That was a pick to crow about.

Jamaal Tinsley was the #27 overall pick and a starter on a playoff team. That was an impact pick.

Ferry isn't there yet.

You cheated - I specifically said no Spurs players... .

Thanks for the other two guys, anybody else (I'm too lazy to look them up right now).

[Admin]

Wroten 2013-14 11.9 PER

Jenkins Career: PER 11.8

I am just saying that we shouldn't be calling JJ any kind of success yet. Personally, I like what I saw from Jenkins last season better than Wroten as well. Jenkins was so worthless this season as to be an instant cut so I am crossing my fingers that it was an injury that accounted for all his struggles and not anything else.

I don't think anyone would call him even remotely successful... but there are others here who've tried to make Wroten sound like a great player when he's really not good at all.

[AHF]

There are lots of guys who were studs or starters after their first years and went later in the draft.

Isaiah Thomas, Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, Delonte West, Kevin Martin, Wilson Chandler....Royal Ivey (66 starts in year 2 alone, lol)....

Plenty of other who were big contributors off the bench like David Lee.

Odds are you aren't going to hit one of those guys on any particular pick at that point in the draft, but the best GM's are the ones who hit more often than their draft position indicates they should.

Once you move up to the 16th and 17th picks, the list is significantly longer.

[Plainview1981]

I like the Millsap signing, I initially thought I wouldn't but I truly have grown to have an appreciation for his game.. I will also eat crow and admit that Millsap is an upgrade over Josh for half the price.. However our team will never reach elite status due to its horrible draft record.. From John Konkack, to passing on Chris Paul for Marvin Williams.. Drafting Josh Childress over Iguadala.. Salim Stoudamire over Monta Ellis.. The cycle has continued right into the Ferry Era.

Passing over Tim Hardaway Jr. for Schröder was a huge mistake.. Honestly, I think we will regret taking Noguiera over Mason Plumlee who has also shown flashes when given playing time. And then what makes passing over Tim Jr. even more magnified is when you consider how sparingly Bud used Jenkins when he was healthy given journey men like Cartier Martin extended minutes.

The nucleus we had could have been solidified with a solid draft.. Things like this is why we will forever be average..

This team is on the road to nowhere like always. Yeah, the current players play hard... But in the long term in means nothing. Just another first round beating.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Hotlanta1981

[Sothron]

This team is on the road to nowhere like always. Yeah, the current players play hard... But in the long term in means nothing. Just another first round beating.

Actually they should win the first round but won't make it past the second round. Feel better?

[DS17Fanboy]

Obviously the benefit of hindsight and momentary opportunism might get a nimble mind to feel bitter about this years draft choices, but to maybe make the OP feel better about the future: one of the main concerns on this board regarding Schröder is his shot-selection and shooting at all in of it self. Well look at the last 4 games, hitting 9 out of 14, and 2 for 2 from 3pt range.

Giving things time does wonders.

[CrazyEye]

If this was an F draft, how you would call drafting:

- Shabazz Muhammed at 14

- Otto Porter @ 3

- Bennet @ 1

Are those H to X drafts

To the other thesis, that a team that isn't in rebuild mode should rate quality above potential ... Thats a thesis i agree with, but for the Hawks in special and in general with this draft i think it is wrong. Yes the Hawks was a Preseason PO team, there moves didn't target tanking BUT there wasn't a small gap in quality for the top spot in the east:

- Miami: I think we all know they was, are and will be strong ...

- Pacers: Also the pacers showed lot more talent and otential above the Hawks roster, last season and it isn't a surrise that they are a title contender right now.

- Nets: They collected lot of star power and lot of exerience, with huge paychecks and a rookie coach. They don't perform well, but i believe a lot of people expected then to be really strong.

- Knicks: They have the talent, but usually trouble to translate there talent to sucess ... This season isn't an exception, but i think they are the only team from the rest who could compete with the other 3 teams talent wise.

So the hawks was in a position to reach the PO, and with luck the second round ... if you look at the succes this season, i believe they are on a good way to even get the hca in the first round. But this have a lot to do, with an weak east. To reach the talent of the Pacers and Miami and beeing a contender i believe they had to pick Michael Jordan

Also i don't see the NBA ready draft picks this year, who are drafted behind Schro and Nogueira with the excetion of Hardaway ... But is Hardaway an big upgrade above a healthy JJ? Did the hawks exect the developement of Mack, so that there was no need of a second PG so that you can go for a third or fourth SG(behind Korver, Lou and maybe JJ with cunningham waiting)?

I think during the draft there was a need for a PG and a C, alternatives as the PG spot was Larkin and maybe Wolters. as a C you got alternatives in Withey and Gobert.

Larkin: I think Larkin would have been a better player from the start then Schröder but also one with less Potential. Would be the slight boost at the Backup spot worth the loss of the potential? I think this is a close one.

Wolters: i think less potential equal quality, a solid to good pick in the second round but no real alternative.

Gobert: I think also like Nogueira he has a lot of potential, but wouldn't help the hawks right now. Personally i like the big fellow a bit more, but both are players for the future and even when i like the old school c the trend goes clearly to smaller more skilled one like Nogueira

Whithey: He can play a bit, but isn't a big help either.

Depending what players are avaible, are that really bad choiches? Sure you can say, that they didn't drafted dudes like Parker in the past draft but i don't think they was avaible too.

Edited February 5, 2014 by CrazyEye

[DrReality]

JJ is very hung t have surgery on his back. Anyone heard prognosis?

[CrazyEye]

Maybe the Hawks could need some help at SF, Bullock isn't bad but also there i don't see talent which helps now. So getting talent who might develop in future, was still the right move for me. If the draft was stronger, you might complain about bad picks but right now i don't see big mistake, in 1-2 years you might say it wasn't a good draft or that they take the best players avaible ;)

[rd79]

And don't forget, Ferry's draft choise included some new international hawks supporters and also squawkers, too...

[Ruckus]

JJ is very hung

Maybe that's why he has back problems.

[Nicholasp27]

Passed on Wroten Jr. who is a decent backup combo guard.

Wroten is the only player other than Smoove to shoot >3 3s per game making less than 25% of them (only 2 other seasons in nba history like this btw) and he has negative win sharesShredder is better now and a better prospect

[Nicholasp27]

No one wants to address the last paragraph. Seems an interesting observation

Where we picked there weren't "immediate impact" rookies...we get that from our free agent pickups and get long-term potential from our mid-late picks

[Admin]

Maybe that's why he has back problems.

This had me cracking up! Thanks for that this morning Ruckus (and DrR!)

[kurupt]

Keep in mind that

- Schröder ist the 6th younges player in the NBA right now (Giannis Antetokounmpo, Archie Goodwin, Nerlens Noel (injured), Sergey Karasev, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (2nd year), Dennis Schröder in that order).

- Look up his stats and especially the progress he has made in limited time. After a cold start, he is now shooting a better percentage (41.5%) overall than, for example, Jeff Teague (41.4%), Victor Oladipo (40.3%) or Ben McLemore (36.6%). So why exactly is is shooting supposed to be such a problem? And he has arguably more room to grow than most of them, since he wasn´t a big scorer before.

- It seems to me that only the TO are a huge concern. Something that is absolutely normal for a) a rookie that b) plays PG and c) is amongst the youngest players in the entire NBA.

His stats for 32 minutes:

9.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 5 apg, 1 spg, 3.7 tpg (Schröder)

13.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.6 spg, 3.3 tpg (Oladipo)

Clearly Oladipo is way better right now, but its not that far off either. Especially if you look at what roles they play in their respective teams. Schröder plays when the bench gets emptied, Oladipo is basically a starter and one of the top-3 options.

It will take some more time to adjust, but the "sky is falling"-attitude of some people towards such a young player who has to adapt to a completely new playing style and a new country is a little bit over the top, I think.

Edited February 5, 2014 by kurupt

[Guest]

Maybe that's why he has back problems.

Made me spit my lunch all over my computer..thanks.

[AHF]

Made me spit my lunch all over my computer..thanks.

Seriously biting my tongue on whether two or three jokes that jump to mind here are over the family friendly line.

(Deciding that 'yes', 'yes they are.')

Edited February 5, 2014 by AHF

[TheNorthCydeRises]

An F . . . no.

A C- . . . yes.

The truth is that with a team that was supposed to be in rebuilding mode, only Mike Scott is in the rotation. Even when Jenkins was healthy, he wasn't in the rotation. Dennis quickly played himself out of the rotation. And Bebe is overseas. Muscala, IMO, doesn't even count and may not ever be seen in a Hawks uniform.

Imagine if Mike Scott hadn't flat out proven that he could ball? A lot of fans were ripping him as a "chucker" in Summer League and thought he may even not make the team when preseason came around. Now, he's arguably our 6th man and easily our best player off the bench.

So in review:

- Dennis got benched for Shelvin Mack, a guy on a minimum contract who is arguably 2X better than Dennis right now, and hasn't gotten his spot back since.

- Jenkins, unless he was flat out given minutes to develop, would have a hard time seeing the floor at SG with Korver as the starter and Lou as the backup.

- If Bebe were good enough to contribute right now, he'd be here

- Muscala is a non-factor

- Mike Scott has been balling

So in 2 years . . . only 1 out of Ferry's 5 draft picks is contributing to the current team. And the reality is that unless someone is traded to allow the younger guys to develop vs NBA talent, we may be talking about the same thing about next year's draft picks.

[tbhawksfan]

An F . . . no.

A C- . . . yes.

The truth is that with a team that was supposed to be in rebuilding mode, only Mike Scott is in the rotation. Even when Jenkins was healthy, he wasn't in the rotation. Dennis quickly played himself out of the rotation. And Bebe is overseas. Muscala, IMO, doesn't even count and may not ever be seen in a Hawks uniform.

Imagine if Mike Scott hadn't flat out proven that he could ball? A lot of fans were ripping him as a "chucker" in Summer League and thought he may even not make the team when preseason came around. Now, he's arguably our 6th man and easily our best player off the bench.

So in review:

- Dennis got benched for Shelvin Mack, a guy on a minimum contract who is arguably 2X better than Dennis right now, and hasn't gotten his spot back since.

- Jenkins, unless he was flat out given minutes to develop, would have a hard time seeing the floor at SG with Korver as the starter and Lou as the backup.

- If Bebe were good enough to contribute right now, he'd be here

- Muscala is a non-factor

- Mike Scott has been balling

So in 2 years . . . only 1 out of Ferry's 5 draft picks is contributing to the current team. And the reality is that unless someone is traded to allow the younger guys to develop vs NBA talent, we may be talking about the same thing about next year's draft picks.

Coming on a little hard with all this and Moose is tearing it up in Bebe's league. I think Ferry is the kind of GM that will bring Bebe and Muscala to the team next season. Muscala has been proving his skills by having some spanish league leading stats, Noguieura has potential and Schröder is quickly getting it together, he has plenty of talent. Scott is coming out.

If you look at other players from the last 2 drafts and our draft position, I'm giving him a wait and see B+ on his 2 drafts.

[deester11]

How you grade drafts within a year or even two is a waste of time. Dennis has clearly gotten it together and Bud has said so. Bebe may or may not be much, but he has good potential. Scott...Yes...a hit. So Jenkins has been well chronicled about his one dimension (shooting..although that's been MIA possibly due to his back).

I'd say Danny hasn't done bad at all. B+ if I had to grade. Definitely not an "F." And if you're really paying attention, you can see Dennis getting his confidence back. It was even mentioned on several telecasts that after ballgate he returned tentative. He's going to be fine.