My problem with Ferry

[Wurider05]

Ferry comes across as having a big ego. Its like he is one of those people that like to do things just so he could say 'Look what I did !!" I know that we all can't predict the future but when was the last time a team that desperately needs talent draft 2 international players in the top 18 picks. Selecting Bud was damn near a no-brainer considering that they worked together. Letting Josh walk was a no-brainer as well. Lou wanted to play for us

Reminds me of the kids in high school who were too cool for school not realizing how they were destroying their future.

I just hope that just because he was a bust as a player that he doesn't feel that he has something to prove.

Another thing is that I heard on the radio that Milsap was always the number one choice with Al Jefferson being option 2. What sense did that make when Ferry reportedly never offered Dwight a contract. Milsap has been damn good for us but could you imagine a Horford/Jefferson frontcourt.

I got the strangest feeling that Ferry is doing unconventional things just to show how smart he is and may hurt us in the long run.

[Diesel]

I'm of a similar opinion of Ferry. Just like his father, he wants to prove that he can win without "Stars". If you look at his background. Played at DeMatha Catholic High School, Played for Duke and was a guy who didn't consider himself a star. Came to the league after refusing to play for the Clipps. He finally ended up in the Team Ball Mecca (San Antonio). But his time in Cleveland can't be missed. He didn't put any real stars next to Lebron even though he had much opportunity. Opting for going after guys like Delonte West, Antwain Jamison, and that PG fella. Those are good 2nd to third tier players but when you have Lebron as a rookie on a rookie contract, your job is easy... Go out and get some stars.

I believe that Ferry wants to prove that you can win without Stars. Which is why he didn't give an offer to D12. Which is why I don't expect us to beat the bushes for guys who don't fit a cheap analytical profile. Look for us to get Patty Mills and somebody like Ariza (at best).

[tonegully]

Ferry comes across as having a big ego. Its like he is one of those people that like to do things just so he could say 'Look what I did !!" I know that we all can't predict the future but when was the last time a team that desperately needs talent draft 2 international players in the top 18 picks. Selecting Bud was damn near a no-brainer considering that they worked together. Letting Josh walk was a no-brainer as well. Lou wanted to play for us

Reminds me of the kids in high school who were too cool for school not realizing how they were destroying their future.

I just hope that just because he was a bust as a player that he doesn't feel that he has something to prove.

Another thing is that I heard on the radio that Milsap was always the number one choice with Al Jefferson being option 2. What sense did that make when Ferry reportedly never offered Dwight a contract. Milsap has been damn good for us but could you imagine a Horford/Jefferson frontcourt.

I got the strangest feeling that Ferry is doing unconventional things just to show how smart he is and may hurt us in the long run.

You guys on this board need summer league or something asap. You guys are reaching on this. How does ferry come across as being a person with a big ego?

Lets be real why offer Dwight a contract when Paul already signed back with the Clips and he already said he didn't want to play for the Hawks. You and I know we didn't have a shot with Dwight.

How can you be mad at going after Sap after the season he just had for 2/18? Maybe Ferry didn't want to give him the money the Bobcats gave him and the length of the deal also.

With the draft I'm excited about our picks Denis has time to mature and both have tremendous upside. What are the other later draft picks doing this year. Hell 2 of the 3 was on the playoff roster, thats nothing but a positive right there.

Ferry has done nothing but made great moves while keeping us flexible and not tied up with some BS contracts. So until he does something to cripple or set the franchise back he has my support.

Bud wasn't a no brainer, you think he would leave the spurs for the Hawks unless both of them was on the same sheet of music? Unless Ferry laid out a plan for the future?

[DrReality]

Agree with tone.....first of all you have to have a big ego to hang with GMs and guys at that level. He's trying to start a culture like the Spurs have. Draft Eruo guys and let them develop to have talent come through the system year after year. He's the first guy we've had that has a clue.

[JTB]

Hold the judgement on ferry people. I will tell you guys this...when the hawks did have bigger names smith, Johnson, bibby, Crawford, whoever else...they were soft as hell! One soft ass coward team!

But today we have a new gm that brought in tough players like DMC, Sap, Brand, other smaller names that play like they want to be here and play like men for 48 minutes.

I'm not wrapped up on this star player stuff as much as I once was. Truth is, is that stars don't always come through! Look a Howard and harden they failed Big time this year!

I rather have 3 all stars and a great ass supporting cast! That alone will make some noise in the east! Breaking the bank for one star ain't good enough or better than that.

[JTB]

The Spurs "system" is built on the backs of HOFers and a HOF coach, not developing Euros. Ferry is going about it backwards which is why many of us see him as a guy out to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

No ferry saw the best talent that he felt fit this system and I'm sure bud had a lot to do with it as well.

[Guest]

July 2nd:

Hawks general manager Danny Ferry and new coach Mike Budenholzer met with Howard in Los Angeles. Ferry had no comment except to tell ESPN's Shelley Smith the meeting went "well."

July 4th:

Earlier Friday, Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban confirmed the Mavs were fully out of contention for Howard. Howard also told the Golden State Warriors and Atlanta Hawks he would not be joining them. All three teams, as well as the Lakers and Rockets, had met with Howard earlier this week.

If you don't think that DF should have had a plan B ( first Millsap then Jefferson) while going after Howard then I'm speechless.

I'm going to say what I said ALL last offseason: D12 WAS NEVER COMING TO THE HAWKS!

I think the Hawks actually got a cursory interview BECAUSE Ferry was on board. Because of DF getting rid of Joe and Marvin he was ABLE to have a face to face meeting with D12.

Which STAR has DF refused to sign that was available that wanted to come here?

Y'all are REACHING!!!

[Guest Zone]

I'm not wrapped up on this star player stuff as much as I once was. Truth is, is that stars don't always come through! Look a Howard and harden they failed Big time this year!
I rather have 3 all stars and a great ass supporting cast! That alone will make some noise in the east! Breaking the bank for one star ain't good enough or better than that.

If "making noise" means a second round exit, are you okay with that? And what do you mean by three all stars? Are you talking about a Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka like combination or a mix of mid-tier "I'm an All Star because the east is weak" players?

At the end of the day, this is the NBA. The grand majority of teams that reach the Finals every year have can't miss talent on them. There is a reason why most NBA fans have no problem with tanking. People on here keep trying to come up ways to get around the fact that high quality talent is needed to have a shot at a Finals win. Teams constructed like The Pacers and The Grizzlies for example have a low chance of winning a Finals unless they can outscore and outperform teams with legit talent like the Heat, OKC, and the Spurs.

[Admin]

So let me get this straight. You criticize Ferry for drafting 2 international players and criticize him for not signing stars? You do realize that had he drafted 2 NCAA players in the 1st round that we couldn't have had 2 max free agent slots, right? He absolutely did the right thing drafting these kids with enormous potential that if he had to he could have stashed and saved money. I love that he got young guys with a lot if potential while still maintaining our cap space. Now the free agent stars didn't want to come here, but at least we had a chance.

The other stuff about ego and what not I'm not even going to touch that as others have said what needs to be said.

[MaceCase]

It's all reaching. First with the bias against foreign players as though they can't have talent despite the fact both Bebe and Dennis were two of the highest ceilinged prospects in that draft (you're hearing now that Dennis could have gone as high as 7th). No, there was plenty of star talent amongst the 23 year old college seniors that he passed up instead. You'll never hear that argument brought up between a 20 year old freshman vs a junior or senior but once they become foreign then the GM is the one full of ego.

Both Bebe and Dennis were boom or bust prospects with the added benefit of being able to be stashed overseas in the event that *ding ding ding* the GM needed the cap space to ink two max deals but oh some guy on the radio said he didn't even pursue Dwight despite documented evidence to the contrary.

The Bud hiring worked out so of course that becomes a "no brainer" now, throwing such a deal to a guy with zero head coaching experience when many on here wanted a name they recognized instead. Letting Josh walk and become one of the worst deals in the league is another no brainer now when plenty still complain about him not being traded for something valuable. Then Ferry only signs our first All Star in years but oh, we could have had Jefferson instead that way we can all blame the GM for not even having the team in a position to sign a single impact free agent in either 2014 or 2015.

Look, there are plenty of issues to criticize Ferry on but some people latch onto the silliest and poorly reasoned things while completely inventing others.

[sturt]

First, I don't think the model that some have asserted that Ferry embraces is entirely accurate.

It seems so easy to forget that the Spurs have had Tim Duncan. Quiet Tim Duncan. Team-first All-Star Tim Duncan. First pick Tim Duncan.

And they've taken talent and developed stars around him.

Second, and related to that, I'm not sure what more Ferry could have done... clearly, DH and DF and everyone else knew what ATL could offer, money and otherwise. To criticize that there technically was no contract offer sidesteps the point that there was no mystery as to what would be in a contract if only DH had indicated a level of interest sufficient to take the next step.

It's like criticizing a guy for not having a marriage license in his back pocket as he speaks to the girl who humored him by spending some time with him, but made it clear she wasn't actually that interested.

Third... I don't actually see all this egotism that's alleged, but I don't actually care about it. Ego is a natural part of sports. I can be critical of a guy's decision-making, but since I'm fairly sure of myself most of the time in my profession, I find it a bit difficult to evade being hypocritical if I take the position that he shouldn't be so sure of his underlying philosophy of how to best do his job.

Can ego can get out of hand? Absolutely... see Jones, Jerry.

But we don't actually know that it's out of hand until the guy has a Jerry Jones-like track record that demonstrates just how off-the-mark the guy's philosophies and way of operating the team are.

[Guest]

Danny Ferry is doing an amazing job. He got rid of Joe's contract and Marvin. Wisely didn't sign Smoove. He has drafted higher character guy with a lot of upside and talent who are hard workers. He got us an awesome coach. He didn't sign a star for us? Like who, Dwight Howard who didn't want to be here and didn't make it past round 1. Chris Paul who dominates the ball and doesn't allow ball movement. Al Jefferson who wanted a huge payday and is injury prone and got injured when it counted most in the playoffs while Millsap was applying glue to the bench so Hibbert could feel nice and secure on that pine. And y'all are mad at Ferry? In the wise words of MNF and Cris Carter...C'mon man!

[capstone21]

Also forgotten ... DF actually got us out of Joe's contract (which was considered impossible) and got assets and flexibility in return and he got us out of Marvin's contract which was also difficult.

[JTB]

If "making noise" means a second round exit, are you okay with that? And what do you mean by three all stars? Are you talking about a Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka like combination or a mix of mid-tier "I'm an All Star because the east is weak" players?

At the end of the day, this is the NBA. The grand majority of teams that reach the Finals every year have can't miss talent on them. There is a reason why most NBA fans have no problem with tanking. People on here keep trying to come up ways to get around the fact that high quality talent is needed to have a shot at a Finals win. Teams constructed like The Pacers and The Grizzlies for example have a low chance of winning a Finals unless they can outscore and outperform teams with legit talent like the Heat, OKC, and the Spurs.

I never mentioned that we have 3 all stars. I just said I rather have 3 all stars along with a great supporting cast. The east being weak isn't our concern in other words who the hell cares! Miami sure doesn't care that the east is weak!

Last nobody is saying we don't need quality talent, we all know we need quality talent! I'm saying we don't need to break the team by signing two major contracts like harden/Howard who also has no shot at winning a finals!

Then you ask am I happy with a second round exit?! I can tell you this...I'm happy that we aren't the clippers with loads of talent but still can't get out the second round going on 5 years!

Like you said quality talent but quality talent has to work together! Not just a bunch of high profile names on a team, that's not how you build a franchise! I want the hawks to go about being a great franchise like the spurs...they don't overspend on marquee names, that's what I want.

[JTB]

First, I don't think the model that some have asserted that Ferry embraces is entirely accurate.

It seems so easy to forget that the Spurs have had Tim Duncan. Quiet Tim Duncan. Team-first All-Star Tim Duncan. First pick Tim Duncan.

And they've taken talent and developed stars around him.

Second, and related to that, I'm not sure what more Ferry could have done... clearly, DH and DF and everyone else knew what ATL could offer, money and otherwise. To criticize that there technically was no contract offer sidesteps the point that there was no mystery as to what would be in a contract if only DH had indicated a level of interest sufficient to take the next step.

It's like criticizing a guy for not having a marriage license in his back pocket as he speaks to the girl who humored him by spending some time with him, but made it clear she wasn't actually that interested.

Third... I don't actually see all this egotism that's alleged, but I don't actually care about it. Ego is a natural part of sports. I can be critical of a guy's decision-making, but since I'm fairly sure of myself most of the time in my profession, I find it a bit difficult to evade being hypocritical if I take the position that he shouldn't be so sure of his underlying philosophy of how to best do his job.

Can ego can get out of hand? Absolutely... see Jones, Jerry.

But we don't actually know that it's out of hand until the guy has a Jerry Jones-like track record that demonstrates just how off-the-mark the guy's philosophies and way of operating the team are.

"And they've taken talent and developed stars around him."

Exactly....they DEVELOPED THEIR STARS...that's what ferry is trying to do here along with coach bud. Give them some damn time!

First, I don't think the model that some have asserted that Ferry embraces is entirely accurate.

It seems so easy to forget that the Spurs have had Tim Duncan. Quiet Tim Duncan. Team-first All-Star Tim Duncan. First pick Tim Duncan.

And they've taken talent and developed stars around him.

Second, and related to that, I'm not sure what more Ferry could have done... clearly, DH and DF and everyone else knew what ATL could offer, money and otherwise. To criticize that there technically was no contract offer sidesteps the point that there was no mystery as to what would be in a contract if only DH had indicated a level of interest sufficient to take the next step.

It's like criticizing a guy for not having a marriage license in his back pocket as he speaks to the girl who humored him by spending some time with him, but made it clear she wasn't actually that interested.

Third... I don't actually see all this egotism that's alleged, but I don't actually care about it. Ego is a natural part of sports. I can be critical of a guy's decision-making, but since I'm fairly sure of myself most of the time in my profession, I find it a bit difficult to evade being hypocritical if I take the position that he shouldn't be so sure of his underlying philosophy of how to best do his job.

Can ego can get out of hand? Absolutely... see Jones, Jerry.

But we don't actually know that it's out of hand until the guy has a Jerry Jones-like track record that demonstrates just how off-the-mark the guy's philosophies and way of operating the team are.

"And they've taken talent and developed stars around him."

Exactly....they DEVELOPED THEIR STARS...that's what ferry is trying to do here along with coach bud. People need to Give them some damn time!

[Wretch]

I actually like Danny Ferry believe it or not. Like many longtime fans here, I have witnessed everything from unbridled idiocy to indifferent apathy in the Hawks front office. Ferry is a breath of fresh air in both respects. He wants to win and he wants to turn the culture around. I can appreciate that, his intelligence, and his experience with the Spurs organization.

I don't necessarily agree that Ferry has an ego problem, but if he has a fault I think it's more along the lines of what Diesel said. Though I can't imagine he'd be stupid enough to believe that we can win without a true game-changing talent. He had it in Cleveland and San Antonio. He knows that he needs it here and you can bet he's working on SOMETHING.

What I question is his team building philosophy in the mean time. I don't think his view is so much, "I'm smart and I can prove that a team can win without stars" so much as I believe his view is, "You don't have to be bad to be good. We can build a team without losing." I'm worried that this "win at all costs" attitude that will end up costing us far more in the long run.

Other than that, I have no issues with Danny Ferry.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Wretch

[Guest]

Where did the idea that Ferry thinks he can win without a bonafide star came from?

[MaceCase]

Where did the idea that Ferry thinks he can win without a bonafide star came from?

1) The fact that people still think that he didn't meet with Dwight or if he did, it was to discuss the weather rather than have him join the team.

2) He didn't tank.

[MrMeltdown]

Ferry comes across as having a big ego. Its like he is one of those people that like to do things just so he could say 'Look what I did !!" I know that we all can't predict the future but when was the last time a team that desperately needs talent draft 2 international players in the top 18 picks. Selecting Bud was damn near a no-brainer considering that they worked together. Letting Josh walk was a no-brainer as well. Lou wanted to play for us

Reminds me of the kids in high school who were too cool for school not realizing how they were destroying their future.

I just hope that just because he was a bust as a player that he doesn't feel that he has something to prove.

Another thing is that I heard on the radio that Milsap was always the number one choice with Al Jefferson being option 2. What sense did that make when Ferry reportedly never offered Dwight a contract. Milsap has been damn good for us but could you imagine a Horford/Jefferson frontcourt.

I got the strangest feeling that Ferry is doing unconventional things just to show how smart he is and may hurt us in the long run.

I don't agree with everything you said but I do agree with your premise.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hold the judgement on ferry people. I will tell you guys this...when the hawks did have bigger names smith, Johnson, bibby, Crawford, whoever else...they were soft as hell! One soft ass coward team!

But today we have a new gm that brought in tough players like DMC, Sap, Brand, other smaller names that play like they want to be here and play like men for 48 minutes.

I'm not wrapped up on this star player stuff as much as I once was. Truth is, is that stars don't always come through! Look a Howard and harden they failed Big time this year!

I rather have 3 all stars and a great ass supporting cast! That alone will make some noise in the east! Breaking the bank for one star ain't good enough or better than that.

This team lost 14 out of 15 games at one point this season. And we only won 38 games.

Until this team does something that the Joe Johnson era teams did, like...I don't know ... win 50+ games and win a playoff series ... save all of that glowing praise of the GM.

Facts are, as good as Millsap was this year, we would've been better off with Jefferson. And when he passes on another significant free agent this year to add cheaper, analytically correct players, we'll see how much we improve this year.

You talk about Harden and Howard, like they didn't play a star laden team in Portland. Aldridge and Lillard are All-Star caliber players themselves, and they have a better supporting cast than Harden and Howard do.

If we only add marginal pieces to this team this summer, don't be surprised if the Hawks are a 7th or 8th seed once again.