Merged: Greg Monroe

[BrazilianHawk]

It's a very minimal risk that Monroe wouldn't fit. If you haven't watched him play since college maybe I can understand your trepidation, but I'm not in the least worried that he'd fit in our system. 

 

You're right, I haven't.

 

But I've watched Horford and Millsap play together (some) and I liked it. I see no reason for ti to change, when we have other much more pressing priorities.

 

Add that to the fact that if we wanted to sign him for a max offer sheet we could do it.without having to part with Millsap. We don't need to ship Millsap to DET to get Monroe.

[Admin]

You're right, I haven't.

 

But I've watched Horford and Millsap play together (some) and I liked it. I see no reason for ti to change, when we have other much more pressing priorities.

 

Add that to the fact that if we wanted to sign him for a max offer sheet we could do it.without having to part with Millsap. We don't need to ship Millsap to DET to get Monroe.

 

You saw 29 games of them together. That's hardly conclusive. And especially since we had such an easy start to the season. 

 

We have a pressing need to move Al to PF, where he's practically begged us to move him for 5+ years now. Unless you're prepared to lose him in 2 years when he refuses to sign with the team who has possibly cost him a fortune through injury possibly due to playing against bigger guys night in and night out. 

 

Yes, we could offer Monroe a max offer sheet without moving Millsap. And then our offseason would be over and we'd have a guy making 10 million coming off the bench and we'd still be weak on the wings. That's why you trade Millsap, preserve most of our cap space and still fix the wing position. 

[BrazilianHawk]

If Robin Lopez is available I'd really try and make a run after him. He'd fill the Tiago Splitter role perfectly. 

 

Now THAT'S an idea I could get behind.

[AHF]

I said even or better on post scoring and rebounding. Millsap is very good in both areas and I think if he spent more time in the paint his rebound % would have been higher. 

 

Agree about Millsap's age and improvement vs that of Monroe. 

 

I don't think there is an argument that Millsap is as good a rebounder as Monroe.  Monroe is 10% better once you equalize for minutes played (roughly 10 rp36 to 9 rp36).  I likewise think that Monroe is demonstrably better as a post scorer.

 

Millsap is absolutely more mobile, a better defender and a better perimeter shooter at this stage in their careers.

[BrazilianHawk]

You saw 29 games of them together. That's hardly conclusive. And especially since we had such an easy start to the season. 

 

We have a pressing need to move Al to PF, where he's practically begged us to move him for 5+ years now. Unless you're prepared to lose him in 2 years when he refuses to sign with the team who has possibly cost him a fortune through injury possibly due to playing against bigger guys night in and night out. 

 

Yes, we could offer Monroe a max offer sheet without moving Millsap. And then our offseason would be over and we'd have a guy making 10 million coming off the bench and we'd still be weak on the wings. That's why you trade Millsap, preserve most of our cap space and still fix the wing position. 

 

As some have stated before, Al should shut up and play.

 

Yes, he has been complaining the last few years, but it's not like he couldn't play C at all. I haven't heard him complaining after coach Bud arrived. We run a different system now, and I'm fairly certain he likes this system better than Woody's or Larry's.

 

We don't know whether his injuries came from playing C. I for one have a hard time believing it.

 

I don't see any sense in eating up our cap space before signing someone who really addresses our needs.

Edited July 2, 2014 by BrazilianHawk

[Diesel]

Yes, he has been complaining the last few years, but it's not like he couldn't play C at all. I haven't heard him complaining after coach Bud arrived. We run a different system now, and I'm fairly certain he likes this system better than Woody's or Larry's.

 

People say that I stretch?  I haven't heard Horf offer up anything about Bud Period.  Horf is a great community guy.  I believe that he took a pay cut on his last contract to stay with us.   However, I think his FAcy this time around is going to be hard on us.   Why wasn't the statue a statue of Horf?  It seems like very little but you make a statue for a guy on a tradable deal?  Al has been here for 8 years and has been a 2 time allstar... this little thing is just another way that we have disrespected Al. 

IF we can get Monroe for Al, I say do it and let's not go through what will be trouble later.

[BrazilianHawk]

People say that I stretch?  I haven't heard Horf offer up anything about Bud Period.  Horf is a great community guy.  I believe that he took a pay cut on his last contract to stay with us.   However, I think his FAcy this time around is going to be hard on us.   Why wasn't the statue a statue of Horf?  It seems like very little but you make a statue for a guy on a tradable deal?  Al has been here for 8 years and has been a 2 time allstar... this little thing is just another way that we have disrespected Al. 

IF we can get Monroe for Al, I say do it and let's not go through what will be trouble later.

 

Not sure why you have quoted my post... as I can't see any stretch on it.

 

Wouldn't you think Al likes this system better? Hell, look at our centers, going all the way to the 3-point line instead of getting beat down in the paint.

 

I would think this system doesn't take as big a toll in Horf's body as the other ones they've implemented.

 

BTW, his last contract (12M per, november 2010) was an extension, the had only 3 years experience in the league. Can't see any pay cut in that.

[Buzzard]

Monroe could be moved in a SNT for Millsap or Salmons. We have the cap to do either...I think Ferry and Bud want a SF or SG after drafting a unproven PF. 

 

Could we end up with Monroe and a SG/SF? Most certainly; but I think job one is securing a wing.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Not sure why you have quoted my post... as I can't see any stretch on it.

 

Wouldn't you think Al likes this system better? Hell, look at our centers, going all the way to the 3-point line instead of getting beat down in the paint.

 

I would think this system doesn't take as big a toll in Horf's body as the other ones they've implemented.

 

BTW, his last contract (12M per, november 2010) was an extension, the had only 3 years experience in the league. Can't see any pay cut in that.

 

Honestly,

 

I don't know if what we saw in the playoffs is our system.  Bud is a good coach.  Good coaches know how to work with what they got and usually don't force players to fit into their system.  When Horf went down, I think out of necessity and based on matchup, we went to an all out three pointers ball offense and it was somewhat successful.

However, our team got outrebounded last season by 3.5 rpg.  You can't win giving up that much on the boards.  We really don't try for offensive boards because we would rather set up our defense but our defensive boards have to be a win every time.  I don't know if Horf can provide that.  His peck injuries may have more to do with rebounding than defending. The last one looked like Hibbert just overpowered him for a rebound.   That being the case, I don't know what the correct system will be for Horf.  Does he want to be a stretch PF  like Ryan Anderson/Dirk?  Or would he rather play a little more physical like Zebo?  I don't know.

[BrazilianHawk]

Well, there's always Jordan Hill. Excellent blocker and rebounder, grabs offensive boards, and looks strong as an ox. For half the price, or less, that we would be paying for Monroe.

 

Just for the sake of comparison, do you have the reboundind nimbers before and after Al's injury?

Edited July 2, 2014 by BrazilianHawk

[Guest]

I wouldn't mind Hill joining the Hawks.

[Diesel]

Well, there's always Jordan Hill. Excellent blocker and rebounder, grabs offensive boards, and looks strong as an ox. For half the price, or less, that we would be paying for Monroe.

 

Just for the sake of comparison, do you have the reboundind nimbers before and after Al's injury?

 

Interesting...

<PRE>                                                                                                                                   
Rk        Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    Jordan Hill 2013-14  26 72 32 1500 6.9 12.5 .549 0.0 0.0 .000 6.9 12.5 .550 3.0 4.3 .685 4.7 8.2 12.8 1.3 0.7 1.5 1.8 4.1 16.7
2     Al Horford 2013-14  27 29 29  958 8.9 15.8 .567 0.2 0.4 .364 8.8 15.4 .572 2.2 3.2 .682 2.5 6.7  9.2 2.9 1.0 1.7 2.4 2.1 20.2
3    Greg Monroe 2013-14  23 82 82 2690 6.7 13.6 .497 0.0 0.0 .000 6.7 13.6 .497 3.2 4.9 .657 3.4 6.7 10.2 2.3 1.2 0.6 2.2 2.7 16.7
</PRE>

Edited July 2, 2014 by Diesel

[AHF]

Well, there's always Jordan Hill. Excellent blocker and rebounder, grabs offensive boards, and looks strong as an ox. For half the price, or less, that we would be paying for Monroe.

 

Just for the sake of comparison, do you have the reboundind nimbers before and after Al's injury?

 

It isn't perfect but this tells you it didn't make a huge difference.

 

8.65 rpg when playing with Al (October / November / December splits)

8.34 rpg without Al (Jan - April splits)

Al averaged 8.4 rpg

[phoostal]

His offense and rebounding have been good. His defense has been some of the worst I've ever seen. But I'm not sure if that's coaching or not. I know he wasn't that bad at G'Town and I'm sure @phoostal can attest to that since he's a fan of that classless team

 

Well thanks for the shout out from a lowly cuse fan, Monroe was a slightly above average defender at Gtown.  Now I haven't followed him closely at Detroit so I can not speak to his defense or lack there of as a Piston.  

 

His offense I thought was underrated.  He is an excellent passer as a big man with a consistent midrange jumper.  His low post game was solid.  The thing I thought he was missing was explosiveness.  I thought he didn't finish strong enough around the hoop, leading to more contested shots or blocks.  

 

He plays with an even keel, not showing a lot emotion.  I'm not saying he doesn't care that just isn't his personality.  I think he would be a good fit for us, but I have to think if we sign him someone is being traded.  I just can't see a roster of Milsap, Horford, and Monroe.  It would be an interesting front court if that were the case.

[Buzzard]

Well, there's always Jordan Hill. Excellent blocker and rebounder, grabs offensive boards, and looks strong as an ox. For half the price, or less, that we would be paying for Monroe.

 

Just for the sake of comparison, do you have the reboundind nimbers before and after Al's injury?

Thats a tough stat to get; but Al averaged 21.4 PPG and 9.3 RPG in December Millsap averaged 20.6 PPG and 10.8 RPG in December. They were both playing all-star level ball that month. Teague was balling as well averaging 16.6 and 8.3 in December and just about every sports pundit you could find had us moving way up the power rankings in December....

[coachx]

 

Interesting...

<PRE>                                                                                                                                   
Rk        Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    Jordan Hill 2013-14  26 72 32 1500 6.9 12.5 .549 0.0 0.0 .000 6.9 12.5 .550 3.0 4.3 .685 4.7 8.2 12.8 1.3 0.7 1.5 1.8 4.1 16.7
2     Al Horford 2013-14  27 29 29  958 8.9 15.8 .567 0.2 0.4 .364 8.8 15.4 .572 2.2 3.2 .682 2.5 6.7  9.2 2.9 1.0 1.7 2.4 2.1 20.2
3    Greg Monroe 2013-14  23 82 82 2690 6.7 13.6 .497 0.0 0.0 .000 6.7 13.6 .497 3.2 4.9 .657 3.4 6.7 10.2 2.3 1.2 0.6 2.2 2.7 16.7
</PRE>

I like Jordan Hill too as a guy off the bench that gives tons of energy. I think Boston is closing in on him.

[Diesel]

<PRE>                                                                                                                                  
Rk        Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    Jordan Hill 2013-14  26 72 32 20.8 4.0  7.2 .549 0.0 0.0 .000 4.0  7.2 .550 1.7 2.5 .685 2.7 4.7 7.4 0.8 0.4 0.9 1.0 2.4  9.7
2     Al Horford 2013-14  27 29 29 33.0 8.2 14.5 .567 0.1 0.4 .364 8.1 14.1 .572 2.0 2.9 .682 2.3 6.1 8.4 2.6 0.9 1.5 2.2 1.9 18.6
3    Greg Monroe 2013-14  23 82 82 32.8 6.1 12.4 .497 0.0 0.0 .000 6.1 12.4 .497 2.9 4.5 .657 3.1 6.1 9.3 2.1 1.1 0.6 2.0 2.5 15.2
</PRE>

Previously, I show per 36.  Hill looks good.  here i show per game.   He seems to know what he's doing.  Maybe we can pick him up as a BU C either way??

[BrazilianHawk]

One would think those are the type of nimbers DF would like. Just sayin'...

 

 

It isn't perfect but this tells you it didn't make a huge difference.

 

8.65 rpg when playing with Al (October / November / December splits)

8.34 rpg without Al (Jan - April splits)

Al averaged 8.4 rpg

 

I'm sorry I haven't been clear in my request. I meant team rebounds, as in "how many boards the Hawks grabbed with and without Horford". But nvm, this should be kinda stressful to figure out.

 

TY anyway.

[red2play]

Yes, we could offer Monroe a max offer sheet without moving Millsap. And then our offseason would be over and we'd have a guy making 10 million coming off the bench and we'd still be weak on the wings. That's why you trade Millsap, preserve most of our cap space and still fix the wing position. 

 

Really because last year we had Antić, Millsap and Horford on the court many many times at the SAME TIME and Millsap covered the SF with no issues.

[Admin]

One would think those are the type of nimbers DF would like. Just sayin'...

 

 

 

I'm sorry I haven't been clear in my request. I meant team rebounds, as in "how many boards the Hawks grabbed with and without Horford". But nvm, this should be kinda stressful to figure out.

 

TY anyway.

 

He'd probably like the even better numbers that Horford and Monroe would get together.