Is This Really Our Roster?

[Buzzard]

Offensively, I think people are underselling Lou a bit.  He was recovering from surgery last year and still scored more efficiently than Teague and had a better A/TO ratio than Teague.  

 

Thabo and Bazemore will clearly be defensive upgrades but he was the best offensive player of the bunch by a decent margin.  Here were the numbers on these guys last year:

 

Lou - 14.2 PER, 15.6 pp36, .547 TS%, .087 WS/48, 1.6 OWS*  (these were his lowest numbers in 5 years - I expect he will rebound some next season)

 

Bazemore - 11.2 PER, 15.9 pp36, .515 TS%, .011 WS/48, -0.6 OWS

Thabo - 10.4 PER, 8.7 pp36, .517 TS%, .092 WS/48, 0.9 OWS

You forgot eFG%:

 

Bazemore .491%

Thabo .485%

Lou .480

 

Considering our concept is all about team defense and efficiency, I think its pretty easy to see how both Thabo and Bazemore will be upgrades or at the minimum a wash on the offensive end. Now if you add in rebounds, its a big upgrade. Just my opinion though....

[Sothron]

I have to think DF has a trade up his sleeves somewhere. There's no way he didn't have a backup plan in case he struck out on all the free agents which to date he has.

[Buzzard]

I have to think DF has a trade up his sleeves somewhere. There's no way he didn't have a backup plan in case he struck out on all the free agents which to date he has.

Maybe we swing something by releasing Antić, Brand or something bigger is up with Milsap or Horford. 

 

I think plan B has always been to get Horford back and try to upgrade SG and/or SF. I don't think he has failed with Bazemore and Thabo over Lou. Lou two full years ago was a steal; I think Bazemore and Thabo are steals as well...

[AHF]

You forgot eFG%:

 

Bazemore .491%

Thabo .485%

Lou .480

 

Considering our concept is all about team defense and efficiency, I think its pretty easy to see how both Thabo and Bazemore will be upgrades or at the minimum a wash on the offensive end. Now if you add in rebounds, its a big upgrade. Just my opinion though....

 

I didn't forget eFG%.  It doesn't mean much compared to TS%.  The fact that Lou, Durant, Martin, etc. get to the line more frequently is a huge part of their offense.  Ignoring that would be foolish.

[DrReality]

Not sure Jenkins will make the team cuz of his back.  His progress has not been good. 

[Buzzard]

I didn't forget eFG%.  It doesn't mean much compared to TS%.  The fact that Lou, Durant, Martin, etc. get to the line more frequently is a huge part of their offense.  Ignoring that would be foolish.

I was not implying that you were foolish by not listing eFG. If it came across that way, I apologize. I just think paying more attention to field goal %, three point shooting, and rebounding seems to be a better way to go in order to measure needed improvements. Especially when you take our team offensive concept and team needs into account. 

[DarrynLee]

Objectively: Horford for a full season is a huge improvement to the starting lineup. Objectively, Thabo and Bazemore are better than Lou; and will be better at shooting the three ball for us than Antić. 

 

It should come as no surprise that when we lost Horford we took a hit; and when we lost Ayón we took another hit. All you have to do to know this is look at the difference in records after December and then again in February. Depending on Antić for defense and offense was asking for a miracle. And Lou is no better than either Bazemore or Thabo; not anymore.

 

Objectively: Horford for a full season is a huge improvement to the starting lineup. Objectively, Thabo and Bazemore are better than Lou; and will be better at shooting the three ball for us than Antić. 

 

It should come as no surprise that when we lost Horford we took a hit; and when we lost Ayón we took another hit. All you have to do to know this is look at the difference in records after December and then again in February. Depending on Antić for defense and offense was asking for a miracle. And Lou is no better than either Bazemore or Thabo; not anymore.

Actually, not including Horford or Ayón, the team was missing at least two rotation players, sometimes three, when they had the 6-20 stretch. 

[AHF]

I was not implying that you were foolish by not listing eFG. If it came across that way, I apologize. I just think paying more attention to field goal %, three point shooting, and rebounding seems to be a better way to go in order to measure needed improvements. Especially when you take our team offensive concept and team needs into account. 

 

I don't see that because FTs are an important part of our and every other system.  

 

Millsap's efg% is .490% and his TS% is .545% because of the FTs.  Same sort of dynamic.  The TS% gives you the better efficiency number.

[Buzzard]

I don't see that because FTs are an important part of our and every other system.  

 

Millsap's efg% is .490% and his TS% is .545% because of the FTs.  Same sort of dynamic.  The TS% gives you the better efficiency number.

.498, you should have rounded up I like the better 3pt shooting and rebounding over Lou's penetration and FT shooting. I really do and its obvious to me where we made the improvements at is what we needed. Depending on Antić's three point shooting last season was a joke.

 

I do like Martin better than Lou. He averaged just 8.3 turn overs per 100 possessions vs Lou's 13.9. Just as you look for Lou to improve over last season, I have the same hope for Thabo and Bazemore.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Buzzard

[sturt]

I know I was fooled last year thinking that there just had to be one more move up DF's sleeve before opening night, but I was proven wrong. So, I'm slow to assume anything this year, though the fact that you still have two RFAs unsigned at least suggests there's a reason for that, ie, that DF is holding open some options depending on what breaks which way.

 

As to what is Plan B, as said a week or more ago, I think Plan B was passed up on July 2... we're now on to Plan V or W by my guess.

[Bamalawdawg]

We'll either sign one more player or retain Brand for next year so it isn't like we are 100% done. Absent a significant move it does make you wonder about waiving Salmons and trading Williams. That would have put a decent player on the roster, the only difference is the Hawk's ownership saves paying salary. It's impossible to feel warm and fuzzy about a profitable Hawks team with a manageable non max payroll.

[GrimeyKidd]

Teague - Schröder - (Mack)

Korver - Thabo - Jenkins

Carroll - Bazemore - (Scott)

Millsap - Muscala - Payne

Horford - Antić - (Brand?)

In the East, this team is good for 50 regular season wins IMHO, provided no one gets injured for a lengthy period.

muscala looks betfer at the 5. Add Scott and Payne to backup 4. Lets sign more depth at wing,

[Buzzard]

I do not understand the whining over Lou Williams. In essence we traded Lou, 5.45 million, for Bazemore and Thabo, 6 million. I would do that deal in a heartbeat!

[nathan2331]

I do not understand the whining over Lou Williams. In essence we traded Lou, 5.45 million, for Bazemore and Thabo, 6 million. I would do that deal in a heartbeat!

While that's nice in a vacuum, we would have had the cap space to sign them without trading Lou.

[Buzzard]

While that's nice in a vacuum, we would have had the cap space to sign them without trading Lou.

Well yea and if we live in your vacuum we have 5.45 million less cap flexibility/room because Lou, Bazemore, and Thabo would be locked up. 

 

Given our needs.... wing rebounding, wing 3pt shooting, wing defense, I would have traded Lou for Thabo straight up and ran like hell with the extra 1.45 million in cap I just cleared off the deal.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Buzzard

[nathan2331]

Well yea and if we live in your vacuum we have 5.45 million less cap flexibility/room because Lou, Bazemore, and Thabo would be locked up.

That is correct. However, Lou will be a free agent at the end of the season. That means that Ferry essentially has to use the cap space he created this season or else it was a total waste.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

[MrMeltdown]

I like what I saw out of Kendall Marshall last year and I think we should pick him up and trade Dennis for an upgrade at SG or SF.

[MrMeltdown]

I do not understand the whining over Lou Williams. In essence we traded Lou, 5.45 million, for Bazemore and Thabo, 6 million. I would do that deal in a heartbeat!

 

You should have something to say anytime someone is misusing assets. I do not call it whining. I call it addressing a problem.

[Guest]

Who says he HAS to use it? He cleared money to be agressive in FAcy to have the funds to pursue the players he wanted. He was unsuccessful!

Can you fault him for that?

But the upgrade over Lou and Cartier's spot with Thabo and Kent was worth it.

[Buzzard]

That is correct. However, Lou will be a free agent at the end of the season. That means that Ferry essentially has to use the cap space he created this season or else it was a total waste.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

We signed two players with it. Why is that a waste?