Danny Ferry is awesome

[Atlantaholic]

Wow this thread lolol... Give credit to Bud but not to Ferry (who signed Bud). Brilliant!

 

I will leave here and never post again for the sake of my IQ.

[High5]

We had people slamming Ferry over this team's chances to just make the playoffs before the season started (even during the first several games this season), but Ferry doesn't deserve credit when we're half a game behind the #1 seed? OK. Maybe it's wise not to crucify a GM after only two seasons when he had to do so much housecleaning and his best player missed a season. We may not win a championship this season, but at the very least we're drastically changing the perception of the Hawks and Ferry was the catalyst for that. 

[MaceCase]

Let's start here.

Sports Illustrated said:

Peachtree Hoops said:

The Redoing History always makes everything seem right but let's remember, Dennis was so far in the doghouse last year that he played 7 minutes in 2 games of the playoffs. And this is the guy you believe that our GM said, we must move a first round pick and another player for?

Cmon Man. Stop reaching.

You have obviously forgotten last season. We shouldn't have resigned Mack if we believed that we had to push Dennis. Becuase Mack played 118 minutes in all 7 games of the playoffs last season.

Lou wasn't stopping Dennis' growth. Mack was.

Perhaps they saw Mack as being capable of fulfilling Louis' role on this team at a lower salary while allowing Dennis the opportunity to re-seize his back-up position........much like how the season has unfolded completely. It's an easy point to ignore when one is speculating on the past rather than witnessing the present facts that are unfolding before them.

[MaceCase]

And as to Bebe. I continuously keep reading of him being referred to as "a 1st" rather than "Bebe" as in "we gave up on Louis and a 1st"...

Bebe was a project, but unlike the numerous foreign players that are drafted higher and yet are still content with continuing to hone their craft in more comfortable locales before transitioning to the NBA, Bebe was different. Bebe didn't and doesn't see himself as a project in need of seasoning, he sees himself as being ready for the NBA limelight when he's clearly not.

Instead of going about his business and developing naturally he decided to treat his time in Europe as just a year long training session to get in the NBA. He jacked up his knees trying to sculpt his "NBA body" rather than preparing for his weekly opponent to his coache's lament and when they said he was cleared to play he decided that they were wrong and suspended his contract so as to get outside consultation to ensure that he wasn't jeapordizing his "real" future.

These were just some red flags. Ferry may have and may still believe in Bebe's potential but they guy was just in too much of a rush to try and fulfill it now rather than being patient. Ferry honestly did not want to have to waste the money on guys who would be fulfilling roles below their price but more importantly he didn't want to waste the ROSTER SPOTS when he had a bevy of other options available to him both already on the previous roster or in free agency.

[OldTimeHawk]

Is there any dispute whatsoever that this is Ferry's team ?? Ferry coach ?? Ferrys cap space ??  So given all that shouldnt it also be Ferry getting the credit ???

 

Adding to this , before the season started  Ferry was getting dogged for theteam he assembled  - so why ZERO love for the guy  Diesel ?? Is it the elite thing again ??

Edited December 24, 2014 by OldTimeHawk

[Diesel]

We had people slamming Ferry over this team's chances to just make the playoffs before the season started (even during the first several games this season), but Ferry doesn't deserve credit when we're half a game behind the #1 seed? OK. Maybe it's wise not to crucify a GM after only two seasons when he had to do so much housecleaning and his best player missed a season. We may not win a championship this season, but at the very least we're drastically changing the perception of the Hawks and Ferry was the catalyst for that. 

 

I can agree with this.. Ferry was the catalyst.

But Let's not act like Bud is just some guy sitting on the end of the bench.

 

Do you think that RC Buford gets more credit than Poppovich?

 

Do you give Jerry Krause more credit than Phil Jackson?

[Guest]

I can agree with this.. Ferry was the catalyst.

But Let's not act like Bud is just some guy sitting on the end of the bench.

Do you think that RC Buford gets more credit than Poppovich?

Do you give Jerry Krause more credit than Phil Jackson?

I'm glad you mentioned RC and Pop because if you've read any articles on how they operate it's a TEAM effort from EVERYONE involved from the assistants, video guys etc. They are ALL allowed to speak their mind on whatever. One doesn't function without the other. Edited December 25, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[ATLSmith]

A lot of fans would probably take Ferry back but I'm not sure how well it would go over with the general public.

Also, I think the value of a GM extends well beyond their picks and trades. It is how they run the organization as a whole. Ferry has dine a great job of implanting a winning program in a very short time. That is his true value.

[jy23]

I can agree with this.. Ferry was the catalyst.

But Let's not act like Bud is just some guy sitting on the end of the bench.

Do you think that RC Buford gets more credit than Poppovich?

Do you give Jerry Krause more credit than Phil Jackson?

Getting credit from who tho? Bc most people with any modicum of sense would know that the spurs wouldn't be the spurs without either one of those guys...Pop couldn't do it without RCA and vice versa. The average fan would of course give Pop all the credit but you shouldn't fall into that category.

[Diesel]

Getting credit from who tho? Bc most people with any modicum of sense would know that the spurs wouldn't be the spurs without either one of those guys...Pop couldn't do it without RCA and vice versa. The average fan would of course give Pop all the credit but you shouldn't fall into that category.

 

What about Krause and Phil Jackson??

or whoever the Laker's  GM and Phil Jackson (Randy Pfund I believe) ??

 

My thing is don't discredit the work that Bud has done by given all this credit to Danny Ferry.  That's what the thread is about no?  Bud has done the major lifting here.  Ferry has had his Hits and Misses.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Interesting thread. And I see Diesel is back to taking on the world. Diesel vs Errybody. Good stuff.

The 22 - 8 start after 30 games is 1 game ahead of the 21 - 9 start that the 2009 - 10 Hawks got off to. That team would go on to win 53 games and secure the 3rd seed in the East. Let's see if this squad can match or exceed that.

Unfortunately, that team isn't remembered for that great regular season. That team is remembered for their epic playoff meltdown vs the Magic. And it's going to be the playoffs that eventually determines what the exiled GM's legacy will be here.

As for the Joe Johnson trade, until we equal or surpass what he did here, I don't see how people can declare that trade a "win". It definitely has the potential to be a win, but it's not a win until we do something without JJ,that we couldn't do with him.

So far though, this has been a season to enjoy. Hopefully the Hawks can get a top 3 seed in the playoffs, and avoid being in that 4 vs 5 slot, in which we may have to play a 50 win team like a Cleveland, just to get to the 2nd round.

[AHF]

First, Diesel is right about the Bebe/Lou trade.

Second, he is wrong about the Korver comments. He posted the timing on our acquisition of Korver and we were able to get him because we traded JJ. Trading Marvin didn't clear the space until Harris was gone so the timing doesn't work. Basically, the Korver trade was a fleecing just like Lou/Bebe: you can get nice assets for free when the other guy wants space.

Third, the Pistons did win without a marquee player / superstar. They are the exception to a well established pattern of needing a superstar / marquee player to win the ring.

Fourth, no one is shorting Bud on credit and Ferry deserves kudos for bringing him in. Making the right coaching hire is critical for a GM.

[High5]

Interesting thread. And I see Diesel is back to taking on the world. Diesel vs Errybody. Good stuff.

The 22 - 8 start after 30 games is 1 game ahead of the 21 - 9 start that the 2009 - 10 Hawks got off to. That team would go on to win 53 games and secure the 3rd seed in the East. Let's see if this squad can match or exceed that.

Unfortunately, that team isn't remembered for that great regular season. That team is remembered for their epic playoff meltdown vs the Magic. And it's going to be the playoffs that eventually determines what the exiled GM's legacy will be here.

As for the Joe Johnson trade, until we equal or surpass what he did here, I don't see how people can declare that trade a "win". It definitely has the potential to be a win, but it's not a win until we do something without JJ,that we couldn't do with him.

So far though, this has been a season to enjoy. Hopefully the Hawks can get a top 3 seed in the playoffs, and avoid being in that 4 vs 5 slot, in which we may have to play a 50 win team like a Cleveland, just to get to the 2nd round.

 

 

We were a first round exit with Joe making a ton of money. We've already become a more impressive first round exit without him. Now we could actually be competitive in the 2nd round. Not having a 16.5 PPG scorer making $23mil and slowing down our offense is a huge win. 

[macdaddy]

I'm starting to believe that what Bud/Ferry, and some other teams, have committed to doing is building a team that possibly can overcome the league slant toward star teams.  I know this seems obvious but the key is shooting the 3 really, really well because the one thing the league can't stop through star biased officiating is teams scoring with the 3.  

 

The 3 is the only real way to put big separation between you and your opponent.   That is hard to overcome by going to the free throw line and hard to negate by allowing star teams to foul at will on the defensive end.   It may be a long shot but so far it's looking pretty good.  Granted we do other things really well too which is what makes the Hawks more than just a one trick pony.   But shooting is what could put us near the top.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

We were a first round exit with Joe making a ton of money. We've already become a more impressive first round exit without him. Now we could actually be competitive in the 2nd round. Not having a 16.5 PPG scorer making $23mil and slowing down our offense is a huge win.

Playoff appearances in the Joe Johnson era

2008: lost to Boston

2009: beat Miami, lost to Cleveland

2010: beat Milwaukee, lost to Orlando

2011: beat Orlando, lost to Chicago

2012: lost to Boston

Playoff appearances during the exiled GM era

2013: lost to Indiana

2014: lost to Indiana

Let's just try to be accurate when talking about this. We need this group to get to the 2nd round, before any declaration can be made about them being better than what we used to have here.

[AHF]

Agreed, Northcyde. The team seems much better structured as far as system but the results haven't exceeded anything from the JJ era yet.

[Guest]

Agreed, Northcyde. The team seems much better structured as far as system but the results haven't exceeded anything from the JJ era yet.

 

You and @TheNorthCydeRises are just hating tankers with low BBIQ.  Grrr.

 

Seriously though, the team appears better suited to advance (as long as we don't end up facing the Bucks) and I hope they do it.

 

Folks can't get past their Smoove/JoeJohn hate long enough to realize they had some pretty decent records/results.

[High5]

Playoff appearances in the Joe Johnson era

2008: lost to Boston

2009: beat Miami, lost to Cleveland

2010: beat Milwaukee, lost to Orlando

2011: beat Orlando, lost to Chicago

2012: lost to Boston

Playoff appearances during the exiled GM era

2013: lost to Indiana

2014: lost to Indiana

Let's just try to be accurate when talking about this. We need this group to get to the 2nd round, before any declaration can be made about them being better than what we used to have here.

 

How was I not being accurate? 2012: 6-game first round loss w/ Joe against the "4th" seed (actually 5th). 2014: 7-game first loss w/o Joe against the 1st seed. IMPROVEMENT! We've exceeded what we had when we traded Joe and we did it with much more room to improve. Now our team looks primed to exceed what we had at Joe's absolute best (based on team success), which, sadly, simply means not embarrassing themselves in the 2nd round. 

 

The trade was a win as soon as it happened. This is a universally agreed upon fact. Joe is barely a contender for a late injury replacement at the ASG and he's making $23 million. How do some people (or just you and Diesel) still want that on our team? Do you think anyone in Brooklyn is grateful that trade went down? Nets fans would trade places with us in a heartbeat. 

[macdaddy]

How was I not being accurate? 2012: 6-game first round loss w/ Joe against the "4th" seed (actually 5th). 2014: 7-game first loss w/o Joe against the 1st seed. IMPROVEMENT! We've exceeded what we had when we traded Joe and we did it with much more room to improve. Now our team looks primed to exceed what we had at Joe's absolute best (based on team success), which, sadly, simply means not embarrassing themselves in the 2nd round. 

 

The trade was a win as soon as it happened. This is a universally agreed upon fact. Joe is barely a contender for a late injury replacement at the ASG and he's making $23 million. How do some people (or just you and Diesel) still want that on our team? Do you think anyone in Brooklyn is grateful that trade went down? Nets fans would trade places with us in a heartbeat. 

 

I agree with this.   2nd round embarrassment was all we were able to achieve in the Joe era.   The Miami and Bucks teams we beat in the first round were pretty pitiful.   2011's first round win was a good one but if i remember Jamal had a hell of a series against the Magic and then a really crappy one when we lost to the Bulls.   

[AUhawksfan]

I agree with this.   2nd round embarrassment was all we were able to achieve in the Joe era.   The Miami and Bucks teams we beat in the first round were pretty pitiful.   2011's first round win was a good one but if i remember Jamal had a hell of a series against the Magic and then a really crappy one when we lost to the Bulls.   

 

 

Agreed with this.  The teams we beat in the first round weren't really teams to boast about beating...that's why we always got killed in the second round because then the competition started to heat up and we couldn't hang with the truly legit teams.

 

Indiana as a 1 seed last year can't even be compared to some of those first round teams we previously beat.  Winning against them would have been a much larger statement if it happened - which it almost did.  Itching to see how things go this year come playoffs!