Merged: Worried about Pero

[atlhawks1]

I keep hearing this rhetoric of how he's positively impacting the game, he's helping in ways that aren't seen on the stat sheet.  If he's playing this poorly on offense, yet still impacting the game in a positive way as you claim, than he MUST be playing some Russell like defense.  I'm not seeing it.

 

If he can at least hit the open jumper than I like him as our backup center for 15 minutes.  The problem is, he has these unbelievable cold streaks (by anyone's standards) where he will miss 20 shots in a row.  We can't have that in the playoffs.

 

Watching Brand last night tells me he is the better option.  We have not seen Pero battle for rebounds or finish inside like that.  He just doesn't have the ability.  

 

exactly what i said. brand does more in ONE possession than pero does the whole game.......

[RandomFan]

I keep hearing this rhetoric of how he's positively impacting the game, he's helping in ways that aren't seen on the stat sheet.  If he's playing this poorly on offense, yet still impacting the game in a positive way as you claim, than he MUST be playing some Russell like defense.  I'm not seeing it.

Well then, there is part of your problem. I'm not the one saying he's playing poor on offense, you folks are. I'll allow that he is SHOOTING poorly. But the problem lies in thinking shooting well is all that is involved in playing good on offense, and many here appear to have fallen into that trap. It's not. And that's what some of us, including Coach Bud obviously, are saying.

 

And just because you're not seeing it, he plays some darn good defense too.

[AtLaS]

Well then, there is part of your problem. I'm not the one saying he's playing poor on offense, you folks are. I'll allow that he is SHOOTING poorly. But the problem lies in thinking shooting well is all that is involved in playing good on offense, and many here appear to have fallen into that trap. It's not. And that's what some of us, including Coach Bud obviously, are saying.

 

And just because you're not seeing it, he plays some darn good defense too.

 

So he's not shooting well, not rebounding, and turning the ball over, but he's not playing poorly on offense?  He must be the best screen setter of all time.

 

Regarding defense, I've already said that he's a good defender.  Not great.  Part of defense is rebounding and he sucks at that.  

[High5]

I do wish we could see Brand more often. He's been absent in a couple of losses this year where I think he could have made the small difference necessary to win. Particularly when Al Jefferson was going off early in the season and recently against the Grizz. 

[DrReality]

He's plays his role in Buds system. That's his value.

[AHF]

I'm not Pero's biggest fan in the world but he does a couple good things on offense even when shooting this poorly:

 

Spaces the Floor - He spaces the floor in a way that big men like Brand or Whiteside or most centers can't do.  By pulling big men out to him, he opens space in the middle of the floor and near the basket.  This in turn creates higher % shots for the rest of the team.

 

Sets Screens - Not everyone does this well.  Screens also increase the number of catch and shoot, high % shots that Bud likes to feature in his sets.

 

Passes the Ball - This is the most easily replicated of the above traits on offense but not all centers can keep the ball moving like he can.  This is more important in our offense than just about any other in the league.

 

In terms of newspaper box score numbers, the only way you will ever see the impact of something like spacing the floor for others, etc. is in team numbers because you don't get an assist, a shot attempt, etc. when you clear the opponent's best shot blocker out of the paint so your PG can drive in for a high % layup.

 

At the end of the day, I just trust Bud on this.

[RandomFan]

I'm not Pero's biggest fan in the world but he does a couple good things on offense even when shooting this poorly:

 

Spaces the Floor - He spaces the floor in a way that big men like Brand or Whiteside or most centers can't do.  By pulling big men out to him, he opens space in the middle of the floor and near the basket.  This in turn creates higher % shots for the rest of the team.

 

Sets Screens - Not everyone does this well.  Screens also increase the number of catch and shoot, high % shots that Bud likes to feature in his sets.

 

Passes the Ball - This is the most easily replicated of the above traits on offense but not all centers can keep the ball moving like he can.  This is more important in our offense than just about any other in the league.

 

In terms of newspaper box score numbers, the only way you will ever see the impact of something like spacing the floor for others, etc. is in team numbers because you don't get an assist, a shot attempt, etc. when you clear the opponent's best shot blocker out of the paint so your PG can drive in for a high % layup.

 

At the end of the day, I just trust Bud on this.

 

Excellent points. To add one more of my own, I think some people underesitmate the value of knowing where to be on the floor at all times. It's very important to any offense, but even moreso in our "pace and space" system that is completely designed to take advantage of the defense with how our players are spaced on the floor to influence defensive angles and put pressure on them to provide open cracks in the D. If you've noticed lately when we play more of our little used backups on the floor at the same time, you'll frequently see bad spacing from them (3 players jumbled up in the same area, players not where they should be for passes, cutting at the wrong time, etc...).

 

So in addition to everything you listed, knowing where to be and why to be there is a very underrated talent in our system: and Pero is apparently very good at it. Of all the reason's I've considered to why we gave up on Payne so quickly, a lack if being able to grasp this skill is most likely the biggest reason he looked to never move ahead of Mulscala, Brand, or Pero in the rotatation anytime soon. In addition to the reason of kicking the rookie contract and player can down the line, I think that is probably the biggest basketball related reason: obviously this is pure speculation on my part - but I'd consider it an educated guess.

 

Payne was obviously more physically gifted than Muscala, and even Pero. That means that he will probably carve out a fairly nice career in a role that doesn't demand as much mentally from him as our system does. But in our system, understanding your role and how it fits in our system, and where you are supposed to be at all times is more important than mere individual talent. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by RandomFan

[Plainview1981]

I'm not Pero's biggest fan in the world but he does a couple good things on offense even when shooting this poorly:

 

Spaces the Floor - He spaces the floor in a way that big men like Brand or Whiteside or most centers can't do.  By pulling big men out to him, he opens space in the middle of the floor and near the basket.  This in turn creates higher % shots for the rest of the team.

 

Sets Screens - Not everyone does this well.  Screens also increase the number of catch and shoot, high % shots that Bud likes to feature in his sets.

 

Passes the Ball - This is the most easily replicated of the above traits on offense but not all centers can keep the ball moving like he can.  This is more important in our offense than just about any other in the league.

 

In terms of newspaper box score numbers, the only way you will ever see the impact of something like spacing the floor for others, etc. is in team numbers because you don't get an assist, a shot attempt, etc. when you clear the opponent's best shot blocker out of the paint so your PG can drive in for a high % layup.

 

At the end of the day, I just trust Bud on this.

 

 

All of this is nice, but at the end of the day Pero's poor shooting was harmful to the team against Indiana last year. All he had to do was shoot decent and perhaps the Hawks win the series. 

 

Sorry, but Pero is not reliable as a stretch 5.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Hotlanta1981

[RandomFan]

 

Sorry, but Pero is not reliable as a stretch 5.

Sorry, but your "opinion" is trumped by the only person who matters, Coach Bud.

 

[Plainview1981]

Sorry, but your "opinion" is trumped by the only person who matters, Coach Bud.

 

 

He said that Pero would hit his shots... Well, when is Pero going to start doing it? He hasn't done it in like 2 months... And if we're being honest, Pero's jump shot is off a hellva lot more than its on.

 

Coach Bud hasn't won anything yet... So stop pretend that he is god.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Hotlanta1981

[RandomFan]

[Plainview1981]

 

Stuff like this is just a sign of how low brow our society has become. 

 

Well, I can't say that da hoodrat cultcha hasn't been great for america.

[Plainview1981]

He said that Pero would hit his shots... Well, when is Pero going to start doing it? He hasn't done it in like 2 months... And if we're being honest, Pero's jump shot is off a hellva lot more than its on.

 

Coach Bud hasn't won anything yet... So stop pretend that he is god.

 

Come to think of it.... Pero has only shot the ball well for 1 month in his NBA career so far. That was Jan of 2014. 

[macdaddy]

Come to think of it.... Pero has only shot the ball well for 1 month in his NBA career so far. That was Jan of 2014. 

 

Huh?  What's your definition of well?  He hit 43% of his threes that month.  If he did that consistently he would not be a 15 minute a night guy.   In fact he'd be top 5 in the friggin nba in shooting.  So if that's your definition of shooting 'well' then you have extremely high expectations.

 

He's been right around 30% from 3 the rest of the time except for this last month.   But he only shot the ball 14 times for the whole month so this 'Pero is killing us' theory is bunk.    Find the other centers, much less backup centers, who are shooting 30% from 3.  I'm guessing the a couple of the ones you find make a lot more money and play a lot more and the others are nba unicorns.  

[AtLaS]

I think Bud has started to notice.  Pero's minutes in February dropped from 17+ per game to 13.  

 

People can make points about setting screens or spreading the floor, passing the ball etc but it's not making up for his inability to finish inside, or the turnovers, or the bricks that he's shooting, or his genuine lack of rebounding.  Give me Brand and his better rebounding, equal defense, ability to hit the midrange jumper and finish inside.  Those putbacks inside we haven't seen from Pero since he's been here.

[AtLaS]

Huh?  What's your definition of well?  He hit 43% of his threes that month.  If he did that consistently he would not be a 15 minute a night guy.   In fact he'd be top 5 in the friggin nba in shooting.  So if that's your definition of shooting 'well' then you have extremely high expectations.

 

He's been right around 30% from 3 the rest of the time except for this last month.   But he only shot the ball 14 times for the whole month so this 'Pero is killing us' theory is bunk.    Find the other centers, much less backup centers, who are shooting 30% from 3.  I'm guessing the a couple of the ones you find make a lot more money and play a lot more and the others are nba unicorns.  

 

 

Find me a center who's shooting 35% from the field.  Or one who's averaging 3 rebounds in over 16 minutes per game.

[AtLaS]

Pero also has the 2nd worst PER of any center/PF in the NBA.  That's bad. 

[macdaddy]

I think Bud has started to notice.  Pero's minutes in February dropped from 17+ per game to 13.  

 

People can make points about setting screens or spreading the floor, passing the ball etc but it's not making up for his inability to finish inside, or the turnovers, or the bricks that he's shooting, or his genuine lack of rebounding.  Give me Brand and his better rebounding, equal defense, ability to hit the midrange jumper and finish inside.  Those putbacks inside we haven't seen from Pero since he's been here.

 

I agree with you about Bud.  No one denies Pero hasn't shot well the last month and Bud adjusted accordingly, as did Pero by not jacking a lot of shots.    Put backs isn't what Bud asks Pero to do though.   Bud puts him on the perimeter for a reason.  You don't get many putbacks at the 3 point line.   That's not Pero's fault.   And his overall fg% compared to other centers is apples to oranges because 80% of his shots are from 3.

Edited March 3, 2015 by macdaddy

[NineOhTheRino]

He said that Pero would hit his shots... Well, when is Pero going to start doing it? He hasn't done it in like 2 months... And if we're being honest, Pero's jump shot is off a hellva lot more than its on.

 

Coach Bud hasn't won anything yet... So stop pretend that he is god.

You do see that around here.  People have made Bud the God of basketball.  Almost feels like we're not fans of a team but members of a cult.  

[Plainview1981]

You do see that around here.  People have made Bud the God of basketball.  Almost feels like we're not fans of a team but members of a cult.  

 

I consider him to be the COY right now, but the praise gets over the top at times.