Danny Ferrys Horrible Gamble..

[willthepureshooter]

ONE STAR THREAD.

If anybody on the Squawk said they expected DMC and Sap to be in line for these kinds of salaries they'll be straight up lying.

Some forget all the complaining - all that capspace and all we got was Millsap and Carroll blah blah blah, its a good thing they're only signed for 2 years blah, blah, blah.

How in the heck is that a bad gamble when players exceed expectations on great deals so now they've gotta be paid?

Blllllllsheet.

I knew Sap was a good pick up, but I hated the amount of years on the deal. I had a feeling he would breakout with the Hawks. His game was still raw and all he needed was a little bit of development on his outside game. Now he's a mismatch for any team at the power forward spot. Just look at the numbers he put up while injured.

Demarre Carrolls development blindsided me a bit to be honest. I liked his defense, but his shooting was bad. I felt he would be a good project guy that could do well if he listened and worked. Obviously I was correct. My issue is with the handling of his contract. Why not push a team option on the third year? Why did Ferry have a hard time selling the opportunity to a journeyman? I'm sorry.. Its hard for me to grasp DMC having superstar negotiation treatment. Especially when the chips were in our pockets. Dude should've been happy to get a call from team with a playoff pedigree coach and the opportunity to start. I don't know how Ferry dropped the ball during negotiations.

So these guys worked out and because they worked out it wasnt any good? Millsap was not borderline allstar, and nobody cared about Carrol. Its not for nothing that they got paid so low. Hindsight etc...

But I get your fear of Hawks becoming a franchise where such guys flourish and then get paid somewhere else. In soccer there is also some clubs like this who are sarcastically called "Ausbildungsvereine"(Educational Franchises), but for one such franchises usualy thrive well enough to be contending and challenge the top. Thats not such a bad place to be after being mediocre at best for decades. Thats something to build on, builds a contending team brand, and makes lucrative trades possible if the cards are played the right way and you know that the system makes guys replacable.

Are we forgetting that Paul Millsap played in the loaded West for majority of his career? And also while with the Utah Jazz he played behind allstars veterans Carlos Boozer and Andrei Kirilenko. I've always liked Millsaps game and I knew Utah's coaching staff were poor at player development.

Hand down.. Man down..

[DS17Fanboy]

I also liked him when they brought him in and I stated it here, but as you said "loaded west". Millsap was no where on the map for the allstar team and also not putting up the numbers he does here, not having a 3 point shot, etc.

[atlhawks1]

If anything, danny deserves a raise for turning this mess organization around.......

[willthepureshooter]

If anything, danny deserves a raise for turning this mess organization around.......

Mess? The only mess we had was Joe's contract and ownership. The Hawks were already a consistent playoff team.

[Guest]

I knew Sap was a good pick up, but I hated the amount of years on the deal. I had a feeling he would breakout with the Hawks. His game was still raw and all he needed was a little bit of development on his outside game. Now he's a mismatch for any team at the power forward spot. Just look at the numbers he put up while injured.

Demarre Carrolls development blindsided me a bit to be honest. I liked his defense, but his shooting was bad. I felt he would be a good project guy that could do well if he listened and worked. Obviously I was correct. My issue is with the handling of his contract. Why not push a team option on the third year? Why did Ferry have a hard time selling the opportunity to a journeyman? I'm sorry.. Its hard for me to grasp DMC having superstar negotiation treatment. Especially when the chips were in our pockets. Dude should've been happy to get a call from team with a playoff pedigree coach and the opportunity to start. I don't know how Ferry dropped the ball during negotiations.

Are we forgetting that Paul Millsap played in the loaded West for majority of his career? And also while with the Utah Jazz he played behind allstars veterans Carlos Boozer and Andrei Kirilenko. I've always liked Millsaps game and I knew Utah's coaching staff were poor at player development.

Hand down.. Man down..

You said he was a journey man but yet you want to sign him for longer?

I have always heard the story of Millsap being offered 4 years since we signed him and his agent confirmed.

Never heard the same for DMC until now and he nor his agent has commented.

As far as I know he was offered a 2 year deal only so I'm not sure how DF can convince him to take a 3rd year he never offered. Just saying.

[atlhawks1]

Mess? The only mess we had was Joe's contract and ownership. The Hawks were already a consistent playoff team that could never make the conference finals.........

 

fixed that for you........

[MaceCase]

Yea! Everyone knows that you got to overpay guys when they aren't as good to prevent from overpaying them when they are good!

[NBASupes]

If this wasn't already proven wrong, you still would have gotten the one star thread. Once again, you are on the rare list with Diesel. 

[asdogg]

Willthepureshooter are u Michael Gearon?

[BigDog90]

I thought Danny Ferry was some type of genius. But looking at how Demarre and Saps contracts were setup it seems he's outsmarted himself. Two years later, with our franchise making an Eastern Conference Finals appearance after 40+ years, we may be looking at a costly setback.

If we choose to pay both of these guys their market value, our franchise could be crippled once again. Do we trade Horford to offset the cap money spent? Do we hinder ourselves from any other free agency choices that could help this team? Or do we overpay one and let the other go?

These are the results of a bad gamble by Danny Ferry. He literally put a borderline all-star in Paul Millsap and a NBA journeyman in Demarre Carroll into the perfect system to increase their value while leaving the Hawks with no control.

We're screwed! And Danny Ferry once again shows how he's severely overrated. He's turned the Atlanta Hawks into an incubator for borderline players to develop and leave for the big bucks.

What's our best solution in this case, and will it cause this team to regress next year? This reminds me of the gamble Dimitroff and Mike Smith took with not resigning John Abraham. The Falcons took a nose dive and haven't recovered yet.

 

I think Ferry made the right move. With the NBA cap going up, this can only help the Hawks. I think they can keep Horford too but he needs way more than $12 million a year.

 

If Carroll and/or Millsap were to leave since the Hawks got a great system, they can just find somebody else to plug into the system. 

[frosgrim]

Both Millsap and Carroll took bets on themselves. It appears they will win

Ferry took a bet that if these guys exceeded their current contracts he could resign them to market or slightly below market price. 

There is no mess up here. There was sound business on both sides. 

 

Look at it the otherway- when Millsap and DMC signed, no one thought these guys would produce at this level. If they had produced below what the Hawks got, the short-term contracts work out great for the team. 

 

The bottom line on both contracts is that the Hawks went to the ECF for the first time in franchise history, established Bud as a top level coach in the NBA, and provided some much needed fan energy to the club. All of those are huge wins. To start hand-wringing before FA starts is silly. Let's see what happens and then kvetch if there is something to really kvetch about. 

 

For me, i'm ticked at the Cleveland series, but I trust the coaching and FO staff will get us a fix so that doesn't happen again. 

[NBASupes]

I don't blame either player, they both were victims of a FA class no GM really wanted to spend on and they got under offered. Millsap and Carroll like @AHF said aren't overly more productive in Atlanta. In Utah, DMC was just as productive, just not as much PT. In Utah, Millsap was putting up similar numbers but because of fit, they weren't winning games and he wasn't getting his deserved press. He did add some parts to his game like the 3pt shot but it's still the same player. Humor has it, Utah offered the max but he didn't want to play there anymore. This FA class is the pay me class, everyone will get paid and make retirement money. I ain't mad but this is the problem without a superstar, players want to get paid. I wish we had more Euros who want to take less to play for a great system and a great coach but we simply want the money in the country. Who I am to complain about that? 

 

Millsap rumor: 

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/8/6/3222541/paul-millsap-turned-down-a-maximum-contract-the-downbeat-810

Edited May 31, 2015 by nbasupes40retired

[Guest]

I don't blame either player, they both were victims of a FA class no GM really wanted to spend on and they got under offered. Millsap and Carroll like @AHF said aren't overly more productive in Atlanta. In Utah, DMC was just as productive, just not as much PT. In Utah, Millsap was putting up similar numbers but because of fit, they weren't winning games and he wasn't getting his deserved press. He did add some parts to his game like the 3pt shot but it's still the same player. Humor has it, Utah offered the max but he didn't want to play there anymore. This FA class is the pay me class, everyone will get paid and make retirement money. I ain't mad but this is the problem without a superstar, players want to get paid. I wish we had more Euros who want to take less to play for a great system and a great coach but we simply want the money in the country. Who I am to complain about that?

Millsap rumor:

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/8/6/3222541/paul-millsap-turned-down-a-maximum-contract-the-downbeat-810

Utah originally offered Sap and extension to his original contract - 3yr/$25 which was his max at the time, he declined.

[FastFreddie]

I know he offered longer contracts to them, but I'm sure the reason they wanted to wait was due to the money offered. Millsap could've been offered $1m or $2m more to lock him in long-term. As for Demarre, I'm still over here scratching my head. You can't sell a career journeyman into a longer contract? Haha. What?

Lots of players contracts were slated to end this year and next year specifically because of the cap space jump. Thats what the agents wanted because everyone knew the salary cap bump was coming ... look at even Lebron's contract that ends next year.  We should just be happy to we had them for 2 years and in DMC's case it worked well for both sides.  If he flopped it wouldn't have hurt us but we got 2 great years out of him.  He earned his money and someone is going to pay for his services. 

[willthepureshooter]

Both Millsap and Carroll took bets on themselves. It appears they will win

Ferry took a bet that if these guys exceeded their current contracts he could resign them to market or slightly below market price.

There is no mess up here. There was sound business on both sides.

Look at it the otherway- when Millsap and DMC signed, no one thought these guys would produce at this level. If they had produced below what the Hawks got, the short-term contracts work out great for the team.

The bottom line on both contracts is that the Hawks went to the ECF for the first time in franchise history, established Bud as a top level coach in the NBA, and provided some much needed fan energy to the club. All of those are huge wins. To start hand-wringing before FA starts is silly. Let's see what happens and then kvetch if there is something to really kvetch about.

For me, i'm ticked at the Cleveland series, but I trust the coaching and FO staff will get us a fix so that doesn't happen again.

Thanks for your positive response! I wish others would've taken your approach.

[Plainview1981]

Omg! Some on here just search for the negative side of everything. He offered more to Sap anyway , but could only sign him for two years. Folks I am out of here for a few weeks cause this place has gone bat shit crazy.

 

Yeah... I'm not really understanding the complaint with this one.

 

It's already been said that he offered more, but this is what they settled on. 

[NBASupes]

Yeah... I'm not really understanding the complaint with this one.

 

It's already been said that he offered more, but this is what they settled on. 

This. The reality is, this place has gone crazy because the typical let's keep it together fan is pissed that it's unrealistic that Sap and DMC will be back next year. That's a flawed team and not good enough to win v. Cleveland. A lot of fans think you can just bring the same team back and maybe healthy, they could beat Cleveland but without DMC, that's dream is gone and it bothers them. Me, I don't feel we could beat Cleveland for several reasons and bring the same crew back for much more in a raise would cap the team long term. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I know he offered longer contracts to them, but I'm sure the reason they wanted to wait was due to the money offered. Millsap could've been offered $1m or $2m more to lock him in long-term. As for Demarre, I'm still over here scratching my head. You can't sell a career journeyman into a longer contract? Haha. What?

Who would want to buy into the Hawks at that time? Ferry had only been here one year, Coach Bud was just hired and still unproven as a head coach, and we still had the stigma of being a lackluster organization to play for. The Hawks were still an uncertainty. Who would want a 4-year deal and find out after a season that Danny's vision is garbage and Bud is a flop as a head coach and you still have 3 years left on your deal, during the prime of your career? Plus, Demarre and Sap are besties. Sap signed here and Demarre followed suit... That's also something said in a recent thread.

Sap and Demarre took the Hawks and Danny/Bud's vision for a 2-year test drive. Now they're interested buying in... With the Hawks flipping the bill of course. lol

Edited June 1, 2015 by PSSSHHHRRR87

[Sothron]

I thought Danny Ferry was some type of genius. But looking at how Demarre and Saps contracts were setup it seems he's outsmarted himself. Two years later, with our franchise making an Eastern Conference Finals appearance after 40+ years, we may be looking at a costly setback.

If we choose to pay both of these guys their market value, our franchise could be crippled once again. Do we trade Horford to offset the cap money spent? Do we hinder ourselves from any other free agency choices that could help this team? Or do we overpay one and let the other go?

These are the results of a bad gamble by Danny Ferry. He literally put a borderline all-star in Paul Millsap and a NBA journeyman in Demarre Carroll into the perfect system to increase their value while leaving the Hawks with no control.

We're screwed! And Danny Ferry once again shows how he's severely overrated. He's turned the Atlanta Hawks into an incubator for borderline players to develop and leave for the big bucks.

What's our best solution in this case, and will it cause this team to regress next year? This reminds me of the gamble Dimitroff and Mike Smith took with not resigning John Abraham. The Falcons took a nose dive and haven't recovered yet.

 

 

I just can't even....

 

Srly? Like is this for real? You blame the GM for signing two guys on the cheap who then outplayed their deals? That is EXACTLY what you want from players, coaches and the GM.

 

Smh

 

This is why the Hawks fanbase gets critics.

[macdaddy]

 

The Hawks finished the 2011–12 season with the third best record in the Eastern Conference with 40 wins, clinching the playoffs for the fifth straight season. However, the Hawks would be eliminated in the first round by the Boston Celtics in six games, ending the Hawks' three-year streak of advancing to the second round.

 

 

Yeah, Ferry has really got this franchise going in the wrong direction since he took over.  What an idiot.

 

We're scared of giving these guys too much money as if we know their 'real' value and nba GMs don't.   Both of these guys have earned big paydays but the gms know more than anybody what their strengths and limitations are.   I expect both of them back somehow.