Tim Hardaway Jr is a Hawk

[AHF]

I fixed it for you, Diesel so the numbers sink in a little deeper. When you factor in the last 30 years, this team's drafting history is hysterically bad. Stinks out loud bad. Insanely bad. Criminally bad.

While I'm not a fan of the deal either, there is no guarantee that the guy they would've gotten would've turned into anything more than the scrubs they pick every year anyway. I really don't know what to make out of Hardaway other than he's had a chance to play; on a crappy team no doubt, but nonetheless. But I do know this; a year ago, I was tearing this team a new one for only being able to bring in Thabo and Bazemore and looked like a jackass as they helped the Hawks win 19 straight, which was a feat no one on this board saw coming. I'm going to withhold judgment on any moves this team makes until it plays out on the court this time around. I strongly suggest that everyone else does the same, if not to just keep your sanity...

You fixed it by pretending Teague was a lottery pick instead of the exact pick we gave the Knicks and relied on the worst drafting team in the entire nba to try to make a point about the entire draft?

[sturt]

I'm not mad at us getting THJ but I don't understand how we got finessed into giving up the 19th pick for him.

 

From all indications, it was pretty much an auction, and Budcox determined the Knicks' bid to be the best of the bunch.

[Pacman21]

I understand the weaknesses in Hardaway but he's a proven rotation player which is what we need. Worst case he's a guard version of Mike Scott who can get hot and change a game (and as JR Smith showed us one hot game can change a playoff series), and best case the staff fixes his shot selection and effort on defense and he's a key long term piece.

A rotation player is what you usually expect from the 15th/19th pick in a draft anyway and they got a proven one for a cheaper price.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Pacman21

[AHF]

I haven't seen @AHF this pissy about a draft pick since he bitched the entire night/week when the Hawks picked Mike Scott over Darius Miller. Then the complaints moved onto how the Hawks didn't buy a draft pick and get someone like Perry Jones or Quincy Miller. And the whole time he was praising the Doron Lamb, Marquis Teague, and Terrence Jones picks.http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.htmlAnyone catch a theme here? (hint hint, Kentucky played Baylor in the NCAA tourney that year)I guess being right about one NBA quality player (the 18th pick) out of the 7 mentioned players is a good batting average?Or maybe, just MAYBE, it's too soon for anyone to get their panties all bunched up over a non-lottery 1st round pick?

I will readily admit to uk bias. The point I made on Scott was that we didn't need him unless we were getting rid of at least one of the numerous PFs in which case we needed to trade him while he had value. I also underrated him for sure and I'll happily eat crow if THJ can turn around his epically bad defense and start hitting shots much better than last year.

I'll never believe the Knicks wouldn't have taken less for damaged goods even if we fix him.

[AHF]

I understand the weaknesses in Hardaway but he's a proven rotation player which is what we need. Worst case he's a guard version of Mike Scott who can get hot and change a game (and as JR Smith showed us one hot game can change a playoff series), and best case the staff fixes his shot selection and effort on defense and he's a key long term piece.

That's pretty much what you're going to get from the 15th/19th pick in a draft anyway.

Yep. That's all we get or hope for from Dennis and Teague.

[HawkItus]

Bitch moan cry weep........let's see what they do with Hardaway and Free agency.   Some of ya'll just have a Ferry hangover though lol

[Guest]

Bitch moan cry weep........let's see what they do with Hardaway and Free agency. Some of ya'll just have a Ferry hangover though lol

Lol, it's a Volt hangover.

[Guest]

Actually, there's a re-Volt going on, (drops mic)

I'm here all week folks.

Edited June 26, 2015 by JayBirdHawk

[NBASupes]

I haven't seen @AHF this pissy about a draft pick since he bitched the entire night/week when the Hawks picked Mike Scott over Darius Miller. Then the complaints moved onto how the Hawks didn't buy a draft pick and get someone like Perry Jones or Quincy Miller. And the whole time he was praising the Doron Lamb, Marquis Teague, and Terrence Jones picks.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

Anyone catch a theme here? (hint hint, Kentucky played Baylor in the NCAA tourney that year)

I guess being right about one NBA quality player (the 18th pick) out of the 7 mentioned players is a good batting average?

Or maybe, just MAYBE, it's too soon for anyone to get their panties all bunched up over a non-lottery 1st round pick?

Chill bro. AHF is good ppl. We are all wrong from time to time especially with the draft. The bottom-line is most of us will take a wait and see approach. We know he's a good scorer but can he be a great scorer since he is versatile in terms of scoring. We could be getting potentially Michael Finley or we could be getting a talented player performing at a 11th man level as was the case for his 2014-15 season w/ the Knicks. 

[Guest]

I'll never believe the Knicks wouldn't have taken less for damaged goods even if we fix him.

At what point in time have the Knicks actually been a competent organization? Geez, the Knicks think it was a good deal. As was their Amare signing. And the Chandler signing, then subsequent trade. Oh and trading away their entire future for Carmelo. Man, I'm going to lose a lot of sleep over this. {/sarcasm}

[NBASupes]

I understand the weaknesses in Hardaway but he's a proven rotation player which is what we need. Worst case he's a guard version of Mike Scott who can get hot and change a game (and as JR Smith showed us one hot game can change a playoff series), and best case the staff fixes his shot selection and effort on defense and he's a key long term piece.

A rotation player is what you usually expect from the 15th/19th pick in a draft anyway and they got a proven one for a cheaper price.

As much as I think Hardaway potential is much higher than Scott's, Scott clearly performed at a 7th/8th man level last year and was worth his value BASED on the regular season. Hardaway on the other hand... His value would be the 3th lowest on the squad only better than Daye and Bazemore. Once again, let's be clear, he wasn't on the right squad or right situation if not the worst for both categories but it's needs to be stated that Mike Scott was more productive last year. 

Edited June 26, 2015 by NBASupes

[thescout5]

Will just have to take a wait and see approach and see how Hardaway does. About the use of stashing euro players and waiting its a good strategy but like anything else just depends on the player. It just seems like the Hawks have had to many throw away 2nd rounders when the team should realize there are some quality players available, not the norm but it is possible. Monta Ellis,Marc Gasol,Deandre Jordan,Kyle Korver, Paul Milsap Isaih Thomas(not the hall of famer), Draymond Green,Ginobilli all were 2nd rd picks.Sometimes you hit lighting in a  bottle . Will have to see how the 2nd rounders from yesterday pan out but history isn't on the Hawks side.

[Carmine]

LOL 90% of the roster is already made up of shooters. Everyone can damn shoot on this team, look how far that got us against the Cavs. There is a serious talent defiency on this roster and you trade for THJR because he can shoot?!?! No hope for this franchise, unless we get Marc Gasol or LMA this offseason is a failure.

[Sothron]

LOL 90% of the roster is already made up of shooters. Everyone can damn shoot on this team, look how far that got us against the Cavs. There is a serious talent defiency on this roster and you trade for THJR because he can shoot?!?! No hope for this franchise, unless we get Marc Gasol or LMA this offseason is a failure.

 

have to agree with this. Our team has plenty of shooters. We need defenders and rebounders. Instead we trade for a scrub that doesn't rebound or defend.

[Pacman21]

Yep. That's all we get or hope for from Dennis and Teague.

Yes the same Teague who couldn't run PnR and didn't even try on defense until Bud got here. Hardaway has had 2 seasons with bad coaches who's to say that THJ can't have a similar growth with this staff.

I just don't know how y'all were ready to give a draft pick the benefit of the doubt but won't give a player who's only a year or 2 older than alot of these draft picks the same rope.

[Sothron]

Yes the same Teague who couldn't run PnR and didn't even try on defense until Bud got here. Hardaway has had 2 seasons with bad coaches who's to say that THJ can't have a similar growth with this staff.

I just don't know how y'all were ready to give a draft pick the benefit of the doubt but won't give a player who's only a year or 2 older than alot of these draft picks the same rope.

 

You don't waste the 15th pick in a good draft to try and find out if  you can unscrub a scrub. Even if they thought THJ  was Jordan 2.0 you don't waste a high pick to get it. The Knicks were looking to pawn him off and we were the suckers to fall for it.

[Ruckus]

I'm admittedly a bit baffled by this as well. But, let's be honest... If we revisited the very first Milsap, DMC or Korver threads they would look very similar to this one. So I still have hope. I have to think Bud actually sees something that we don't with Hardaway.

[Buzzard]

LOL 90% of the roster is already made up of shooters. Everyone can damn shoot on this team, look how far that got us against the Cavs. There is a serious talent defiency on this roster and you trade for THJR because he can shoot?!?! No hope for this franchise, unless we get Marc Gasol or LMA this offseason is a failure.

I don't think there was a Gasol or LMA left at 15. We do have hope; and plenty of it because we just improved on our team with Hardaway.

 

Korver and Thabo going down, showed us just how frail we are. Not to mention, Korver having such a hard time getting his shot off in the playoffs. I do agree, free agency should be exciting as well.

[Buzzard]

You don't waste the 15th pick in a good draft to try and find out if  you can unscrub a scrub. Even if they thought THJ  was Jordan 2.0 you don't waste a high pick to get it. The Knicks were looking to pawn him off and we were the suckers to fall for it.

The Knicks pawned off their whole roster except Melo and their team is worse for it. The Mavs are thanking them, the Cavs are thanking them, and next season we will be thanking them.

[sturt]

You don't waste the 15th pick in a good draft to try and find out if  you can unscrub a scrub. Even if they thought THJ  was Jordan 2.0 you don't waste a high pick to get it. The Knicks were looking to pawn him off and we were the suckers to fall for it.

 

I've admitted the THjr acquisition was a bit of a headscratcher. But I'm actually scratching my head much more so this morning over these over-the-top assessments by otherwise seemingly rational posters.

 

First, "good draft?" That's a definite maybe. Not reading anyone decrying it as a bad draft, but I've also not read anyone chatting it up as a historically excellent one. In fact, the last time I think we read about a draft being historically excellent it was last year, and we can all see now the hyperbole that that proved to be, at least in the short term.

 

Second, scrub? No one's lauding the guy in terms like his dad, but he's not exactly an end of the bench guy either. Come back to earth, and maybe we can have a better dialogue.

 

Third, the evidence says that there was a menu of options from which Budcox selected. If any sucker-ing occurred, it was self-deception on Budcox' part, and nothing that the Knicks did... not much time for salesmanship from the other team when you're on a clock.

 

Finally, the insistence that there is some absolute certainty that one's prediction of the outcome of this deal (and, by implication, of the lack of intelligence of the people who made) is foregone conclusive fact... as-if the person making the prediction has credentials that ought to make Budcox and Hawks fans in general sit up and take notice... is disconnected from reality. It really is.

 

Some will dig back in the archives and call me a hypocrite on this one, and that is fair. But the lesson is that the reasonableness of humility sometimes takes awhile to take root. (And, needless to say, I'm still working on that one.)