Was Billy Knight ahead of his time?

[Dejay]

Ferry at least built a team that has been to the Finals and ECFs. BK couldn't build a burger in a food truck...

[Cwell]

Yeah Supes.  I can so what you mean.  He drafted for need over talent in Marvin(for his system) and in Sheldon(for Woodson) and possibly even in Chilz.  He had it backwards for a rebuilding team.  Get talent first, then needs to fit your system later.

no. He didn't have a plan with his drafting. Marvin was drafted for potential. SF was the last thing we needed. We had Al Harrington and the previous year drafted Josh Childress and Josh Smith who both had solid rookie years, as well as Donta Smith in the 2nd round. If it was for need he would have taken Chris Paul or Deron Williams. We had NOBODY at the point. We started Royal freakin Ivey 66 games that year lol the next year he promises the big stiff Shelden Williams months before the draft 5th overall, when nobody had him going top 10. Billy was an imbecile.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Cwell

[Guest]

no. He didn't have a plan with his drafting. Marvin was drafted for potential. SF was the last thing we needed. We had Al Harrington and the previous year drafted Josh Childress and Josh Smith who both had solid rookie years, as well as Donta Smith in the 2nd round. If it was for need he would have taken Chris Paul or Deron Williams. We had NOBODY at the point. We started Royal freakin Ivey 66 games that year lol the next year he promises the big stiff Shelden Williams months before the draft 5th overall, when nobody had him going top 10. Billy was an imbecile.

Yup.

And about the only defense that anyone could possibly have for BK's ineptitude is the infighting of the A$G. There were a few years where BK was literally constrained in needing 100% ownership approval for a deal over 4 years in length or to exceed the Salary Cap. However, this restriction might have actually saved BK from making even more bad moves. For all we know, BK could have dragged the franchise down even further had he been able to sign whoever he wanted in free agency to whatever contract he desired.

Want to get really depressed? Go check out all the moves BK ever made:

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Hawks&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginDate=2002-4-18&EndDate=2008-7-1&submit=Search

Oh my. I want to gouge out my eyeballs. There was one good free agency move in signing Zaza. Stephen Jackson did sign for $1 million and eventually that got us Al Harrington to then parlay into sending Al Harrington back to Indiana for cash and Acie Law. And that, well yeah that pretty much does it for the good moves even though the Jackson->Harrington->Acie is pretty treadmillish and never translated into wins especially since Harrington was an awful player from a +/- perspective.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hawks lineup had BK chosen CP3

PG - Paul

G - Johnson

F - Harrington

F - Smith

C - Zaza

F - Childress

G - Lue

F - Bass

G - Ivey

C - Batista

The drafting of Salim was in direct response of not taking a PG with the 2nd pick. So had we'd taken Paul, maybe the 31st pick that year is Brandon Bass.

I think that team, if healthy, at least wins 35 - 40 games that year, and challenges for a playoff spot. But it would take us 3 more years + a trade for Mike Bibby, to even reach the 37 win mark.

That's how devastating BK missing on Paul was.

Edited July 12, 2015 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Dejay]

Hawks lineup had BK chosen CP3

PG - Paul

G - Johnson

F - Harrington

F - Smith

C - Zaza

F - Childress

G - Lue

F - Bass

G - Ivey

C - Batista

The drafting of Salim was in direct response of not taking a PG with the 2nd pick. So had we'd taken Paul, maybe the 31st pick that year is Brandon Bass.

I think that team, if healthy, at least wins 35 - 40 games that year, and challenges for a playoff spot. But it would take us 3 more years + a trade for Mike Bibby, to even reach the 37 win mark.

That's how devastating BK missing on Paul was.

I've said this for how many years now? They would've been three years ahead of where they ended up and STILL been in position to land a big man to top off the roster with the $$$ that was eventually spent on Claxton and Bibby. And considering how exciting those CP3-to-Osh lobs would've been, we wouldn't have had to wait until the playoffs to see the building full.

BK was a flustercluck to say the least.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Dejay

[DatWerkk]

Positionless basketball doesn't work if you fill the roster with a buncha stiffs. C'mon people, get real.

[sturt]

I for one am too bored with the topic anymore to get into it. So I'm not, other than what was already said, and that I think there is sometimes a negative correlation between the actual validity of an argument and the degree to which a person making that argument feels compelled to engage in name-calling and assign evil intent to the object of his/her wrath.

 

Next, perhaps we can re-litigate Danny Ferry... you heard about his Luol Deng remark, didn't you? You didn't? Well, maybe we need a thread about that then. *wink*

[Cwell]

Hawks lineup had BK chosen CP3

PG - Paul

G - Johnson

F - Harrington

F - Smith

C - Zaza

F - Childress

G - Lue

F - Bass

G - Ivey

C - Batista

The drafting of Salim was in direct response of not taking a PG with the 2nd pick. So had we'd taken Paul, maybe the 31st pick that year is Brandon Bass.

I think that team, if healthy, at least wins 35 - 40 games that year, and challenges for a playoff spot. But it would take us 3 more years + a trade for Mike Bibby, to even reach the 37 win mark.

That's how devastating BK missing on Paul was.

The funny thing is.....if we drafted Paul, he would have been a bust. Woody was either going to not play him or play him to his weakness by making him play off the ball in order for Joe to iso like he did every other PG we had. Pass it to Joe and wait for the open jumper or run to the corner smh hated Woody.

[Dejay]

The funny thing is.....if we drafted Paul, he would have been a bust. Woody was either going to not play him or play him to his weakness by making him play off the ball in order for Joe to iso like he did every other PG we had. Pass it to Joe and wait for the open jumper or run to the corner smh hated Woody.

Point well taken. We would've needed a competent coach, too. Woody would've had him riding the pines to learn from Royal Ivie or something...

[Diesel]

Having a vision without the ability to implement that vision isn't worth much. Add in some poor talent evaluation (in terms of players and his coach) and a healthy dose of arrogance and you have a recipe for mediocrity at best.

 

Well, if you can hire people who can find talent... The Spurs Way...  Then you can impliment.

[Diesel]

BK was never a genius. He was a dolt.

Keep in mind he has never and will never have a team over .500. There's a reason why no one else in the NBA has even kicked his tires. Hell, back in 2013 an interview with him claimed that he "most recently, he was the general manager of the Atlanta Hawks." Right now, he's reduced to posturing through the media that he can be the AD at the University of Shittsburgh.

http://triblive.com/sports/college/pitt/7757990-74/knight-pitt-athletic#axzz3fhJiH4Xl

That's not going to happen.

Ferry and BK can both be classified as assholes and arrogant, but there is no way Danny Ferry is as bad as BK. Ferry has been the GM of a team who has gone to the Finals, had the best record in the NBA, and has never missed the playoffs. Billy Knight is the devil.

 

Ferry's team made it to the finals because they had Lebron.  He was handed Lebron.   In fact, the team he sent was so poor that they give Lebron Legendary status for taking them.

[AmishBoy]

Sorry for opening an old wound, but this shit was driving me crazy.  Thank god I've come back to the conclusion that Billy was an idiot.  I don't think I was going crazy, I think I mistook anger for insanity.  Billy had a great point guard practically handed to him and missed and I forgot we had Al Harrington at the time.  That's like striking out in teeball.  I'm conditioned to believe that we can't succeed the way our team is currently built and hopefully I'm wrong because I now know the only way I will ever get over the Billy Knight era is if we win a title.

[Guest]

Ferry's team made it to the finals because they had Lebron.  He was handed Lebron.   In fact, the team he sent was so poor that they give Lebron Legendary status for taking them.

I see you've diverged away from the conversation because you have no point.

[Guest]

I for one am too bored with the topic anymore to get into it. So I'm not, other than what was already said, and that I think there is sometimes a negative correlation between the actual validity of an argument and the degree to which a person making that argument feels compelled to engage in name-calling and assign evil intent to the object of his/her wrath.

 

Next, perhaps we can re-litigate Danny Ferry... you heard about his Luol Deng remark, didn't you? You didn't? Well, maybe we need a thread about that then. *wink*

Doesn't apply here. And I guess you didn't catch my old-timey reference claiming BK is the devil as I used to be that asshole (still am an asshole) on this board with the avatar of BK as a devil because he really did set this franchise back with his idiotic moves.

I could continue to explain why he sucked so bad, but I d o n ' t l i k e t a l k i n g s l o w e r t o g e t m y p o i n t a c r o s s .

[Diesel]

I see you've diverged away from the conversation because you have no point.

 

No, the point was already proven.  Golden State Proved that what BK proposed could be done and would succeed... Nobody has argued anything that goes against that. 

The argument was that BK didn't have the ability to scout the talent to make that happen.  I agreed.

So somebody brought out how Ferry was so much better than BK.   I have always maintained, that they are the same guy.  Period.

So your attempt to belittle the point that I made failed.  Are you so much of a Ferry fan that you missed the unmissable similarities to BK?

[Guest]

No, the point was already proven.  Golden State Proved that what BK proposed could be done and would succeed... Nobody has argued anything that goes against that. 

The argument was that BK didn't have the ability to scout the talent to make that happen.  I agreed.

So somebody brought out how Ferry was so much better than BK.   I have always maintained, that they are the same guy.  Period.

So your attempt to belittle the point that I made failed.  Are you so much of a Ferry fan that you missed the unmissable similarities to BK?

 

 

I see you've diverged away from the conversation because you have no point.

(And it's pretty easy to see which extreme side of the "argument" that I am on. I'll give you a hint: I'm pretty indifferent to how Ferry did with the Hawks.)

[Guest]

Doesn't apply here. And I guess you didn't catch my old-timey reference claiming BK is the devil as I used to be that asshole (still am an asshole) on this board with the avatar of BK as a devil because he really did set this franchise back with his idiotic moves.

I could continue to explain why he sucked so bad, but I d o n ' t l i k e t a l k i n g s l o w e r t o g e t m y p o i n t a c r o s s .

 

Lol! Man, you're on fire.  That notwithstanding, there are elements of what BK claimed to be trying to do that are being illustrated throughout the league circa 2015, including the Warriors championship squad.  You can't let your personal hatred for him cloud that.

 

Granted, he didn't put it all together but he did indeed have some sound ideas.

 

Lastly, let's explore your BK hate.  Were you jealous of the 70's era fro?  You're not alone I'm sure.

[sturt]

Lol! Man, you're on fire.  That notwithstanding, there are elements of what BK claimed to be trying to do that are being illustrated throughout the league circa 2015, including the Warriors championship squad.  You can't let your personal hatred for him cloud that.

 

Granted, he didn't put it all together but he did indeed have some sound ideas.

 

Lastly, let's explore your BK hate.  Were you jealous of the 70's era fro?  You're not alone I'm sure.

 

Dang... coffee stains after the spit-take.

[Guest]

Y'all know that the Jail Blazers did a lot of "positionless" basketball a few years before BK, right? Same with the Kings. This idea is not new. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Why the hell are people trying to paint BK in a good light at this time? Dude was horrible and the only thing that could possibly change that is if people just flat out forgot NBA basketball from 2003 to 2008 then try and recast it in a light of "hey man, this could have been revolutionary!!"

[NBASupes]

Y'all know that the Jail Blazers did a lot of "positionless" basketball a few years before BK, right? Same with the Kings. This idea is not new. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Why the hell are people trying to paint BK in a good light at this time? Dude was horrible and the only thing that could possibly change that is if people just flat out forgot NBA basketball from 2003 to 2008 then try and recast it in a light of "hey man, this could have been revolutionary!!"

None of those teams played position-less Basketball. The Kings were built on ball movement and the Blazers was all about depth. It can be compared to the Nuggets of the 2010's except they have more talent. I have to agree with Diesel, BK was the first to talk about this position-less Basketball and he failed like most expected him to do. Don Nelson tried to several years later and have semi-success doing it. These current Warriors and the Hawks have taken it to new heights. 

 

To be honest, we kept some of BK's principles as did GS keep some of Nelly's principles. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by NBASupes