Was Billy Knight ahead of his time?

[lethalweapon3]

Well, BK was definitely ahole of his time.

 

~lw3

[NBASupes]

Well, BK was definitely ahole of his time.

 

~lw3

Honestly, ATL and GS are successful today due to what BK and Nelly installed back then. We are nothing but the evolution of those foundations. Both teams. We are literally running what BK started but we changed things up greatly from the initial release. 

[Guest]

Dang... coffee stains after the spit-take.

 

I'm sorry you weren't prepared for my hilariousness.  I thought it was common knowledge that hawksfanatic had a personal hatred of BK.  I think BK sauntered into some random, rural-NC watering hole back-in-the-day with that perfectly-sculpted fro and stole hawksfan's girl or something.

 

Y'all know that the Jail Blazers did a lot of "positionless" basketball a few years before BK, right? Same with the Kings. This idea is not new. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Why the hell are people trying to paint BK in a good light at this time? Dude was horrible and the only thing that could possibly change that is if people just flat out forgot NBA basketball from 2003 to 2008 then try and recast it in a light of "hey man, this could have been revolutionary!!"

 

I don't think anyone's giving him kudos necessarily due to his spectacular failure here.  Just acknowledging that he was kinda onto something.

[AHF]

We are definitely not running what BK started.  There is one player from the BK era still making a difference on this team and we are running a completely different game plan on the floor than what we ran when he was GM.  

 

Come on here, guys.  BK wanted his all-6'8'' team.  The team that just won the championship won with their NBA MVP 6'3'' point guard, their legit 7 footer in the paint, and a variety of talented wings and forwards.  The mere fact that they have a variety of talented wings and forwards does not make them BK's model.

 

How loose are we going to play with BK's theory of all 6'8'' guys?  GSWs are part of BK's plan because they have talented swing players.  How about the Bulls with Harper, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman?  Were they part of BK's plan? The Miami heat with Wade, Lebron and Bosh as their core of wings and forwards who can play multiple positions?  

 

BK had some non-revolutionary ideas about versatile players and then tried to take it a step further and failed.  Let's not get our heads stuck where the sun don't shine trying to describe every team with versatile forwards as a part of the BK model.  

[Guest]

I don't think anyone's giving him kudos necessarily due to his spectacular failure here.  Just acknowledging that he was kinda onto something.

No one in this thread has even attempted to define the "positionless" basketball as to how BK put it into place. It's essentially used as a buzzword and then a few other dopes in this thread appear to nod their head in agreement.

"oh yup, yup yup. sure is positionless and revolutionary because look at Golden State!"

"WOW amazing reference! I sure do get it!!"

Which leads one to be like....uhhh what? what the *bleep* are these people referring to? If one wants to contend that BK put together a team where all 5 on the floor could guard 1 through 5 well that's f***ing wrong anyway. BK signed 5'11" Craig f***ing Claxton to be his starting point guard. He gave up Boris Diaw, the 6'8" athlete who originally was misused as a point guard under Woody (funny, Stotts was way more effective in using Boris than Woody and Stotts didn't play Boris at the 1). While BK did a great job at identifying Zaza and snagging him in restricted free agency, Zaza is nowhere near a player who could be "positionless." He played 6'1" Salim Stoudamire as shooting guard. Same thing with Tony Delk. Tyrone Lue played point guard for how long? And Anthony Johnson??

BK was never going towards this "positionless" basketball. He was a f***ing dope. If you think he was, then you don't remember what BK was doing his entire tenure in Atlanta. BK was always creating a log jam and hid behind "I like basketball players" as a moniker. It wasn't a theory or anything like that. It was an accumulation of Josh-Josh-Marv-Harrington-Joe that took up the 2 through 4 in some capacity. That's not really positionless. That's about the same shit that Portland used to do with Sheed-Pippen-Augmon-Jackson-Schrempf.

[sturt]

 

Fwiw, I understand the inclination that he set out from the git-go to acquire 6-8 assets...   ...and have them all start.

 

I for one am... ...just not persuaded that that... ...wasn't actually rather a matter of how fate handed out the player acquisition opportunities put in front of him...

 

What I do believe... ...is that BK was among the original true believers in tanking... ...and acquiring assets considered to be... ... especially athletic. That... ... to me anyhow... ...more than height... specifically was the... ...focus.

 

 

 

.......

[Duff_Man]

Knight was a bumbling idiot. He was the NBA GM version of buying a DVD out of the $3 bin at Wal Mart.

[Guest]

No one in this thread has even attempted to define the "positionless" basketball as to how BK put it into place. It's essentially used as a buzzword and then a few other dopes in this thread appear to nod their head in agreement.

"oh yup, yup yup. sure is positionless and revolutionary because look at Golden State!"

"WOW amazing reference! I sure do get it!!"

Which leads one to be like....uhhh what? what the *bleep* are these people referring to? If one wants to contend that BK put together a team where all 5 on the floor could guard 1 through 5 well that's f***ing wrong anyway. BK signed 5'11" Craig f***ing Claxton to be his starting point guard. He gave up Boris Diaw, the 6'8" athlete who originally was misused as a point guard under Woody (funny, Stotts was way more effective in using Boris than Woody and Stotts didn't play Boris at the 1). While BK did a great job at identifying Zaza and snagging him in restricted free agency, Zaza is nowhere near a player who could be "positionless." He played 6'1" Salim Stoudamire as shooting guard. Same thing with Tony Delk. Tyrone Lue played point guard for how long? And Anthony Johnson??

BK was never going towards this "positionless" basketball. He was a f***ing dope. If you think he was, then you don't remember what BK was doing his entire tenure in Atlanta. BK was always creating a log jam and hid behind "I like basketball players" as a moniker. It wasn't a theory or anything like that. It was an accumulation of Josh-Josh-Marv-Harrington-Joe that took up the 2 through 4 in some capacity. That's not really positionless. That's about the same shit that Portland used to do with Sheed-Pippen-Augmon-Jackson-Schrempf.

 

Well said.  I still think calling him an idiot is a little strong.  Just as giving him or -'Antoni much credit for what the Warriors are doing is also strong.

[Guest]

Well said.  I still think calling him an idiot is a little strong.  Just as giving him or -'Antoni much credit for what the Warriors are doing is also strong.

I think I've maintained the buffoon, dope, dolt, etc. type of name calling. I don't think I've referenced him as an idiot.

I've always thought the D'Antoni reference with the Dubs was that the D'Antoni system could work and not that D'Antoni was the architect. I guess some might be putting out the idea that D'Antoni deserves credit somehow, but I was always annoyed with the notion that "oh that run and gun system just can't work!" was silly. Apparently if you didn't actually win the 'chip then you failed. A real Ricky Bobby notion in the NBA, which is a bad characterization. There's randomness in games, and yet some want to look in the past and say there is no randomness. I think I'd call people who think like that are idiots.

[AHF]

I think I've maintained the buffoon, dope, dolt, etc. type of name calling. I don't think I've referenced him as an idiot.

 

Pretty sure that came from you saying his moves were idiotic and AmishBoy calling him an idiot.

[Guest]

Pretty sure that came from you saying his moves were idiotic and AmishBoy calling him an idiot.

That's a little trick I picked up to avoid getting banned by those damned narc mods. Call the move idiotic, avoid calling the person an actual idiot by shifting the focus. That's a little thing I like to call experience.

[AHF]

That's a little trick I picked up to avoid getting banned by those damned narc mods. Call the move idiotic, avoid calling the person an actual idiot by shifting the focus. That's a little thing I like to call experience.

 

Well played, sir.

[Guest]

I think I've maintained the buffoon, dope, dolt, etc. type of name calling. I don't think I've referenced him as an idiot.

I've always thought the D'Antoni reference with the Dubs was that the D'Antoni system could work and not that D'Antoni was the architect. I guess some might be putting out the idea that D'Antoni deserves credit somehow, but I was always annoyed with the notion that "oh that run and gun system just can't work!" was silly. Apparently if you didn't actually win the 'chip then you failed. A real Ricky Bobby notion in the NBA, which is a bad characterization. There's randomness in games, and yet some want to look in the past and say there is no randomness. I think I'd call people who think like that are idiots.

 

IIUC, Alvin Gentry wanted -'Antoni given credit or w/e.

 

Also, I think you could still get banned for calling something 'idiotic' if the mod has a personal beef with you.  Fortunately for you, rogue modding is on the decline the last few months.  Hmm, a certain mod went incognito the last few months too, huh?

 

Coincidence?

[Guest]

IIUC, Alvin Gentry wanted -'Antoni given credit or w/e.

 

Also, I think you could still get banned for calling something 'idiotic' if the mod has a personal beef with you.  Fortunately for you, rogue modding is on the decline the last few months.  Hmm, a certain mod went incognito the last few months too, huh?

 

Coincidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bHGYLiIorg

[Diesel]

Y'all know that the Jail Blazers did a lot of "positionless" basketball a few years before BK, right? Same with the Kings. This idea is not new. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Why the hell are people trying to paint BK in a good light at this time? Dude was horrible and the only thing that could possibly change that is if people just flat out forgot NBA basketball from 2003 to 2008 then try and recast it in a light of "hey man, this could have been revolutionary!!"

 

Uhm... no they did not.  (Portland)

 

They had Bigs, Forwards and Gaurds.  All had positions... that was one of my favorite things about that team, they were deep at every position.  That's different from having guys who can play several positions.

[Diesel]

We are definitely not running what BK started.  There is one player from the BK era still making a difference on this team and we are running a completely different game plan on the floor than what we ran when he was GM.  

 

Come on here, guys.  BK wanted his all-6'8'' team.  The team that just won the championship won with their NBA MVP 6'3'' point guard, their legit 7 footer in the paint, and a variety of talented wings and forwards.  The mere fact that they have a variety of talented wings and forwards does not make them BK's model.

 

How loose are we going to play with BK's theory of all 6'8'' guys?  GSWs are part of BK's plan because they have talented swing players.  How about the Bulls with Harper, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman?  Were they part of BK's plan? The Miami heat with Wade, Lebron and Bosh as their core of wings and forwards who can play multiple positions?  

 

BK had some non-revolutionary ideas about versatile players and then tried to take it a step further and failed.  Let's not get our heads stuck where the sun don't shine trying to describe every team with versatile forwards as a part of the BK model.  

 

BK never said he wanted an all 6'8" team.  We (fans) inferred that from his pick of Marvin over Paul or Williams.   However, what BK did say he wanted was " Long, Athletic, and interchangable".

 

This is straight from his bio:

 

"Billy Knight understood that change and a total transformation were needed. He knew that change would not happen overnight. His fundamental belief was to develop one's own talent; and maintain enough financial room to acquire the best talent without handicapping the future of the franchise. By continuing to add the roster, the organization's aspirations of improving every year were realized.

Knight's Atlanta Hawks roster was reshaped with talented, long athletic players who are capable of playing more than one position. Knight was the person responsible for all aspects of the Hawks' Basketball Operations, including coaching, player personnel, contract negotiations, scouting and salary cap management; and the reorganization of the Basketball Operations department."

 

Sounds exactly like Ferry.

[NBASupes]

BK never said he wanted an all 6'8" team.  We (fans) inferred that from his pick of Marvin over Paul or Williams.   However, what BK did say he wanted was " Long, Athletic, and interchangable".

 

This is straight from his bio:

 

"Billy Knight understood that change and a total transformation were needed. He knew that change would not happen overnight. His fundamental belief was to develop one's own talent; and maintain enough financial room to acquire the best talent without handicapping the future of the franchise. By continuing to add the roster, the organization's aspirations of improving every year were realized.

Knight's Atlanta Hawks roster was reshaped with talented, long athletic players who are capable of playing more than one position. Knight was the person responsible for all aspects of the Hawks' Basketball Operations, including coaching, player personnel, contract negotiations, scouting and salary cap management; and the reorganization of the Basketball Operations department."

 

Sounds exactly like Ferry.

Five star post from Diesel. 

[AHF]

BK never said he wanted an all 6'8" team.  We (fans) inferred that from his pick of Marvin over Paul or Williams.   However, what BK did say he wanted was " Long, Athletic, and interchangable".

 

This is straight from his bio:

 

"Billy Knight understood that change and a total transformation were needed. He knew that change would not happen overnight. His fundamental belief was to develop one's own talent; and maintain enough financial room to acquire the best talent without handicapping the future of the franchise. By continuing to add the roster, the organization's aspirations of improving every year were realized.

Knight's Atlanta Hawks roster was reshaped with talented, long athletic players who are capable of playing more than one position. Knight was the person responsible for all aspects of the Hawks' Basketball Operations, including coaching, player personnel, contract negotiations, scouting and salary cap management; and the reorganization of the Basketball Operations department."

 

Sounds exactly like Ferry.

 

That sounds like every GM because it is a generalized statement.

 

He wanted talented players.

 

STOP THE PRESSES!  This is revolutionary!

 

Long and athletic players!  Not like there aren't drinking games because these terms are so overused by GMs and draft analysts.

 

Capable of playing more than one position!  No one thought of this before.  Imagine how good John Havlicek would have been had Boston thought to use him at multiple positions.

 

So this supposedly revolutionary idea is to get talented, long, athletic and versatile players.  And this made him some kind of savant?  Too bad Cleveland lucked into Lebron James when it was really only BK who saw his greatness.

 

You guys are giving too much credit to his general mission statement here and too little what he actually did as GM.

[macdaddy]

That sounds like every GM because it is a generalized statement.

 

He wanted talented players.

 

STOP THE PRESSES!  This is revolutionary!

 

Long and athletic players!  Not like there aren't drinking games because these terms are so overused by GMs and draft analysts.

 

Capable of playing more than one position!  No one thought of this before.  Imagine how good John Havlicek would have been had Boston thought to use him at multiple positions.

 

So this supposedly revolutionary idea is to get talented, long, athletic and versatile players.  And this made him some kind of savant?  Too bad Cleveland lucked into Lebron James when it was really only BK who saw his greatness.

 

You guys are giving too much credit to his general mission statement here and too little what he actually did as GM.

 

Agreed.  And how is this like Ferry?   He drafted Dennis, JJ, Bebe, Moose, Edy, Payne.  I'd say none of them can play multiple positions unless you think Moose can play PF.    The two most athletic have no length.

[NBASupes]

Agreed.  And how is this like Ferry?   He drafted Dennis, JJ, Bebe, Moose, Edy, Payne.  I'd say none of them can play multiple positions unless you think Moose can play PF.    The two most athletic have no length.

While Budcox believes in athletic players with potential with system fit. Hardaway Jr, Robinson III and trading away Payne.