Was Billy Knight ahead of his time?

[AmishBoy]

This has been on my mind since the Warriors won the title.  

 

I keep hearing and reading about positionless basketball since the Dubs grabbed the title and it has me thinking about this dude.  Let me just say I hated Billy Knight and I was heartbroken when we grabbed Marvin over Deron Williams(Chris Paul was available but Deron was who I wanted).  But looking back, I have to ask the board, am I crazy?  I feel like I'm going crazy thinking he might have been onto something. Maybe it was ownership holding him back from his true vision.  Either way, I just need to talk/post this out with some other informed individuals.

[NiqueDaLegend]

Excuse my french but Billy Knight sucks at life. End of discussion.

[capstone21]

Excuse my french but Billy Knight sucks at life. End of discussion.

lol

[NBASupes]

He was but he had no idea how to draft talent.

[Guest]

No. Billy Knight is/was a buffoon and should have never been in charge of building a team.

[AmishBoy]

Yeah Supes.  I can so what you mean.  He drafted for need over talent in Marvin(for his system) and in Sheldon(for Woodson) and possibly even in Chilz.  He had it backwards for a rebuilding team.  Get talent first, then needs to fit your system later.

[Dejay]

And BK left the Hawks and built a winner in...oh yeah, he didn't.

He was/is an arrogant boob who thought he was the smartest man in the room without having any credentials whatsoever. We're finally at a point where we can actually move on from those blown lottery picks from a decade ago. But it still hurts like hell...

[Wretch]

And BK left the Hawks and built a winner in...oh yeah, he didn't.

He was/is an arrogant boob who thought he was the smartest man in the room without having any credentials whatsoever. We're finally at a point where we can actually move on from those blown lottery picks from a decade ago. But it still hurts like hell...

 

Agree with this so much.  BK's main problem was his arrogance, not his plan.  The plan was actually quite visionary and COULD have worked with the right pieces.  The problem was the odds of finding the players to fit his system - and not just any players, but REALLY good players.  If you could find a combination of 2.5 star players (finding just one in the draft is hard enough) that are all big and interchangeable...it would be hard to defend.

 

Aside from that...the plan itself was solid, but standard and not revolutionary.  Build talent through the draft.  Teams do that and succeed - though admittedly I've been humbled and silenced by the way Danny Ferry challenged that methodology to build a contender.  For all his vision though...it should have been painfully obvious at the 2005 draft.  

 

Common sense said we needed a PG...and we shouldn't have taken any chances.  The bump in the road was that BK had his eyes fixed upon JJ as his PG.  Which...well...we know how that turned out.  Knight was blinded by his arrogance and it cost him a chance to really turn things around.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Wretch

[sturt]

I'm not sure that BK was the first to attempt the roster-building strategy that he did, but he was one of the first.

 

I think there's a lot of Hawks fans who are pissed off b/c he did what conventional wisdom said at the draft slots where we drafted those years, and he struck out or hit singles when he was in a position to slug home runs. Marvin was the consensus #2 pick. Shellhead was the only player of any regard at that slot and at the position where we were looking for help. Chilz, Deng and Iggy were all bunched together as possibilities at our slot, and he missed badly on that one. Still... seemingly... all... well, not "all," but a whole lot... would have been forgiven had one FA signing panned out that didn't due to injury, ie, Speedy.

 

So, while BK gambled on the strategy, he didn't really gamble in terms of the players he targeted... they were guys everyone else thought he should pursue, too. In hindsight, obviously, the lesson is that sometimes a GM has to choose NOT to do what is conventional wisdom.

 

And now, we see BK on steroids over in Philly... taking it all to an extreme... losing like BK didn't let us lose, and getting high lottery picks... and doing so for literally year after year after year. Will Hinkle's strategy work? And if so, will it produce enough success that it makes all of the tanking worth it in the end?

 

I'm sure BK is especially interested to see what happens.

[gsuteke]

No Billy Knight was out of his mind.

[Guest]

I'm not sure that BK was the first to attempt the roster-building strategy that he did, but he was one of the first.

Don't forget he threw Max contracts at Kenyon Martin and Erick Dampier (maybe his was near Max, it was certainly more than Dallas offered) which lucky for him he was so incompetent that his incompetence saved the Hawks from disaster. Then add in he tried to get a clearly over the hill Sam Cassell to only be rejected, again because of his incompetence. The Hawks settled on the other big coup of Craig Claxton who was vastly overpaid relative to any merit or projected skill he could have had in the league at the time. Big surprise, Craig never played even half a season* for the Hawks and ended up as a way for the A$G to appear that they paid a higher Team Payroll than they actually did because his contract was covered by insurance for I believe 80% for the last 3 years of the 4 year disaster.

The focus on his disasters in drafting is one thing, but he also shat the bed on free agency. Even the Joe Johnson deal was an unmitigated disaster that anyone with a shred of understanding of the CBA could understand. They overpaid Joe from a contract perspective (no one else was offering him a Max) and then they decided it would be a good job to toss in 2 first round draft picks plus Boris Diaw because BK/Woody were too incompetent to understand how to use him in the system of "positionless" basketball.

I think "pointless" basketball more accurately describes Billy Knight than "positionless."

*correction, Craig played 42 games his first season in Atlanta.

Edited July 12, 2015 by hawksfanatic

[Diesel]

And BK left the Hawks and built a winner in...oh yeah, he didn't.

He was/is an arrogant boob who thought he was the smartest man in the room without having any credentials whatsoever. We're finally at a point where we can actually move on from those blown lottery picks from a decade ago. But it still hurts like hell...

same can be said of Ferry.

[Diesel]

BK was a genius in that he had the plan...  but he couldnt implement.  He didnt have the ability to find talent.  

[DJlaysitup]

Having a vision without the ability to implement that vision isn't worth much. Add in some poor talent evaluation (in terms of players and his coach) and a healthy dose of arrogance and you have a recipe for mediocrity at best.

[sturt]

Amish, first, I should have said congrats on breaking away to the electronic age... and second... you're to be commended on the bravery in starting this thread and opening up the old wound that just won't ever heal... hehe.

[Afro]

I think the argument is valid.

Billy Knights theories were solid.

He just had no idea how to properly execute them.

[Alex]

And BK left the Hawks and built a winner in...oh yeah, he didn't.

He was/is an arrogant boob who thought he was the smartest man in the room without having any credentials whatsoever. We're finally at a point where we can actually move on from those blown lottery picks from a decade ago. But it still hurts like hell...

Yes now the Hawks blow draft picks outside the lottery.  That is an improvement.

[Guest]

BK was a genius in that he had the plan...  but he couldnt implement.  He didnt have the ability to find talent.

BK was never a genius. He was a dolt.

Keep in mind he has never and will never have a team over .500. There's a reason why no one else in the NBA has even kicked his tires. Hell, back in 2013 an interview with him claimed that he "most recently, he was the general manager of the Atlanta Hawks." Right now, he's reduced to posturing through the media that he can be the AD at the University of Shittsburgh.

http://triblive.com/sports/college/pitt/7757990-74/knight-pitt-athletic#axzz3fhJiH4Xl

That's not going to happen.

Ferry and BK can both be classified as assholes and arrogant, but there is no way Danny Ferry is as bad as BK. Ferry has been the GM of a team who has gone to the Finals, had the best record in the NBA, and has never missed the playoffs. Billy Knight is the devil.

[sturt]

And THIS is a day when fanatic actually woke up on the RIGHT side of his bed... so take this as a lesson to one and all... hehe...

[Guest]

And THIS is a day when fanatic actually woke up on the RIGHT side of his bed... so take this as a lesson to one and all... hehe...

BK is always a sore subject for me and anyone trying to rewrite history to make him look like he was competent is f***ing insane. That, or they are just trying to stir the pot and get the 'Squawk all testy for the sake of having discussion.

It's also ridiculous for posters to make mention that BK was good "in theory." WTF? What f***ing plan of building a team doesn't work "in theory?" If anyone cares to take a minute to think about that, well maybe some people will need more than a minute, you'll quickly realize this is nothing to be proud of.

Every. Theory. Works. (in theory).

Here, I've got a theory. Jam Lebran together with Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard and toss in some shooters and defensive stoppers. Oh damn son, that is a theory that would be the bomb! Consider me a G-D genius!!! {/sarcasm}

Or what if we put together a team full of Lebrans??!?! DAMN!!!!!!!! I AM AHEAD OF MY TIME ANOINT ME HEAD GENIUS OF BASKETBALL!!!! CLEARLY AHEAD OF MY TIIIIIMMMMMEEEE!!!!!

BK also was not the first to have an idea of "positionless" basketball. Hubie Brown has talked about that in some capacity since the 70s. I'm sure others have as well. BK did not invent that theory/concept. And he sure as shit never implemented it in any way that was worth a damn or worth talking about as "genius."