Analytics showed what I was afraid of

[Lurker]

It isn’t completely disastrous though. Three things I learned when looking at the +/- for lineups:

1.  The starting lineup is not the answer. Early but what DOES look like the best of both worlds answer so far would shock people. It’s either go big or bench Horford.

2.  The normal plan for using both PGs on the court is a bad idea, but I found one that actually does work for those that hate the 2 PG lineup. It’s go small in the backcourt and big in the frontcourt.

3.  Scott shouldn’t see minutes without Sefolosha and Splitter on the court to hide his defensive issues.

[Atlantaholic]

you need a larger sample size for any of these stats to mean anything IMO

[swolehawk2]

I posted the below in another thread, 2 weeks ago and I remain interested to see how this lineup would do with meaningful minutes.

"Anybody else waiting impatiently to see this on the floor: "Teague Korver Thabo Horford  Splitter"

•  

[NBASupes]

One star thread

[BigDog90]

6 hours ago, Lurker said:

It isn’t completely disastrous though. Three things I learned when looking at the +/- for lineups:

1.  The starting lineup is not the answer. Early but what DOES look like the best of both worlds answer so far would shock people. It’s either go big or bench Horford.

2.  The normal plan for using both PGs on the court is a bad idea, but I found one that actually does work for those that hate the 2 PG lineup. It’s go small in the backcourt and big in the frontcourt.

3.  Scott shouldn’t see minutes without Sefolosha and Splitter on the court to hide his defensive issues.

Good thread. I'd like to see how the +/- looks in a month from now. 

[frosgrim]

The problem with running these stats now is that you haven't allowed for learning how to play together. The Dennis and Teague backcourt needs time to work itself out and should be effective at times. Al, Paul and Tiago still are learning to play together. Thabo and Kyle are still coming back from significant injury. Great to look at numbers but the contexts in which those numbers are generated are much more important.

[rd79]

+/- alone means nothing, because you have to know who the opponent was on the court. Sure Al could have a worse +/- vs AD than Tavares vs some garbage time scrubs, but makes that Edy the better player? Since basketball is all about matchups +/- alone is useless IMO.

And you have to know who is playing with each other. Guys around LeBum and Curry may have a better +/- than they deserve. I really don't like that stat.

Edited November 11, 2015 by rd79
Deine mudder

[TheNorthCydeRises]

21 hours ago, Lurker said:

It isn’t completely disastrous though. Three things I learned when looking at the +/- for lineups:

1.  The starting lineup is not the answer. Early but what DOES look like the best of both worlds answer so far would shock people. It’s either go big or bench Horford.

2.  The normal plan for using both PGs on the court is a bad idea, but I found one that actually does work for those that hate the 2 PG lineup. It’s go small in the backcourt and big in the frontcourt.

3.  Scott shouldn’t see minutes without Sefolosha and Splitter on the court to hide his defensive issues.

What the Squawk doesn't realize, is that those are bad numbers playing against mostly bad to mediocre teams.  What happens to those numbers when we start playing above average teams?

Your assessment is on point.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, rd79 said:

+/- alone means nothing, because you have to know who the opponent was on the court. Sure Al could have a worse +/- vs AD than Tavares vs some garbage time scrubs, but makes that Edy the better player? Since basketball is all about matchups +/- alone is useless IMO.

And you have to know who is playing with each other. Guys around LeBum and Curry may have a better +/- than they deserve. I really don't like that stat.

It's not just +/- though.  Go to this link and just look at the numbers across the board.  Order those lineups in each section by clicking on PTS.  It validates what many are seeing with their eyes.

The 2 PG lineup is ineffective, especially  when Bazemore is at the 3.

Sefolosha and Splitter has been part of our most successful units.

And our rebounding problems rear their ugly head when we go small w/Horford at center.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2016/lineups/

We're 7 - 2 because our bench has been stellar, even when the starters play lackluster.  And because we've played our share of bad teams.

I personally don't like the way this team is playing defense. They need to correct this before the schedule really ramps up.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, NBASupes said:

One star thread

Lol, nice....first 'ONE STAR' of the season @NBASupes.....many more to come. 

[benhillboy]

I like to wait 20 games before drawing statistical observations.  Love me some Thabo but I'm sure his PER won't stand at 19.37.  I have no problem with the two PG lineup, Bud sure doesn't.  Speed kills and kills some more.

And is it weird that I have hopes of prying Bogan Boganaovic from the Nets?  I think Bud would do wonders with him.  He definately wouldn't be glued to the bench like another SG with "potential" while we witness Kyle's decline.

[macdaddy]

18 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's not just +/- though.  Go to this link and just look at the numbers across the board.  Order those lineups in each section by clicking on PTS.  It validates what many are seeing with their eyes.

The 2 PG lineup is ineffective, especially  when Bazemore is at the 3.

Sefolosha and Splitter has been part of our most successful units.

And our rebounding problems rear their ugly head when we go small w/Horford at center.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2016/lineups/

We're 7 - 2 because our bench has been stellar, even when the starters play lackluster.  And because we've played our share of bad teams.

I personally don't like the way this team is playing defense. They need to correct this before the schedule really ramps up.

 

At some point I think Thabo needs to be the starter.   The guy is just solid and sets the tone defensively and is very active offensively.   I love Baze but I don't think he can lock down the better 3s and with Kyle starting at the 2 that means opposing wings can get a great start to the game.     It's nice to have the depth we have though and early season is a time to figure your out your best combinations.  I'm just glad we are winning while doing it.