Does anybody rationally think this team is going anywhere?

[DocWilkins]

This team is very soft, can't rebound and really doesn't defend well enough to ever be a serious playoff contender. We certainly don't have that second gear that we had last year and we can't put anybody away early. Kyle has regressed, Dennis Schröder is not a starting point guard and I am beginning to wonder if he should be in the rotation at all. Bazemore is not a starter. Teague is very inconsistent but the only real dog out on the floor. 

The bigger factor for me is I don't feel the same intensity and hunger from the team. You have to want it to win it! Being 28th in the league in something as fundamental as rebounding tells me we aren't going anywhere. Millsap is not worth all the money we paid him and we simply do not have one single clutch go win us the game guy. Tell me I am crazy but having small forwards such as Kent Bazemore, Thabo and Lamar are not going to get us past the Cavs or any of the elite teams from the West. Al has decided he is three point specialist now and our biggest body is 20' + away from the basket. Bud looks lost and frustrated and for the life of me I am so sick of him stating that the Hawks have a lot of work to do at every news conference. The will to win can't be taught. You either have it or you don't. This team is softer than pharmacy cotton and I just wanted to call it like it is instead of listening to the mindless insider scoops of Jerome, Stinger, Andre and the gang. I would love to b able to ask Coach bud some "real questions". 

So frustrated with this current play and I certainly hope we have some answers but unfortunately I think we are what Barkley thought we were! LOL! 

[Plainview1981]

They're playing like they know they can't run with Cleveland. Not only that, but perhaps they're starting to have doubts about Bud. I have a feeling that Horford is feeling very uncomfortable out at the 3 pt line.

[AUhawksfan]

Yeah I say we pull Al back in. The 3 thing was an experiment, now let's end it and keep him in the interior more.  Only exception is if we're down late and need some 3s.

We need some tweaks by the trade deadline if this play keeps up and we don't make some changes.

[Vol4ever]

It's really early but in the long run Barkley is right.   Without Korvers shot we really struggle.  

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

It's really early but in the long run Barkley is right.   Without Korvers shot we really struggle.  

You mean to say, "Wivout Kourvers, da Hawwgs gon' skrugkle ..."

[NBASupes]

We need some wings. It's that simple.

[615Hawk]

I can't remember who said this last season but they said that even though Korver doesnt score 30 a night, you have to defend him like he can. Last season teams had to worry about a healthy Korver. Without him hitting shots and still recovering from the off season surgeries teams dont have to guard him as close and can help on other guys driving the lane

[DocWilkins]

I agree with everyone's thoughts on Korver and his injuries as far as slowing him down but I believe there are deeper issues here. I watched the Nuggets play the Warriors last night and it was a foregone conclusion that the Warriors would win but the Nuggets were not laying down for a team that was clearly superior. They fought hard and played with great intensity until the onslaught of the warriors talent took them down. I believe the Hawks are a heck of a lot more skilled than the Nuggets but I am so sick of how soft we are...Softer than a jar of marshmellow fluff. 

I hate to seem like a premature whiner but some of you know I have been on and off this board for quite some time. I am glad we changed the regime and got rid of the AS, King and Woodson/Drew along with JSmoove and the lazy bunch but are we really that much better off. Regular season results are great, but we need a pack of wolves/mad dogs that want to WIN at whatever cost. Been a fan for 35+ years and still waiting for my Hawks to truly fly.  Thanks for the thoughts and at least I can't vent here! 

[AUhawksfan]

53 minutes ago, DocWilkins said:

I agree with everyone's thoughts on Korver and his injuries as far as slowing him down but I believe there are deeper issues here. I watched the Nuggets play the Warriors last night and it was a foregone conclusion that the Warriors would win but the Nuggets were not laying down for a team that was clearly superior. They fought hard and played with great intensity until the onslaught of the warriors talent took them down. I believe the Hawks are a heck of a lot more skilled than the Nuggets but I am so sick of how soft we are...Softer than a jar of marshmellow fluff. 

I hate to seem like a premature whiner but some of you know I have been on and off this board for quite some time. I am glad we changed the regime and got rid of the AS, King and Woodson/Drew along with JSmoove and the lazy bunch but are we really that much better off. Regular season results are great, but we need a pack of wolves/mad dogs that want to WIN at whatever cost. Been a fan for 35+ years and still waiting for my Hawks to truly fly.  Thanks for the thoughts and at least I can't vent here! 

I hear you.  The recent play is bringing back flashbacks.  Ones I don't want to have.....

Most of last season we had that fight.  I've yet to see it come once so far this season.  It's one thing to get beat scratching and clawing to try to win, it's another to just lay back and let the competition outwork you.  I've seen too many glimpses of that this season.

[DocWilkins]

1 hour ago, AUhawksfan said:

I hear you.  The recent play is bringing back flashbacks.  Ones I don't want to have.....

Most of last season we had that fight.  I've yet to see it come once so far this season.  It's one thing to get beat scratching and clawing to try to win, it's another to just lay back and let the competition outwork you.  I've seen too many glimpses of that this season.

Very well said! Let's hope Bud can get these guys going. 

[Diesel]

I reserved Judgement til everybody is healthy.

 

I still like us with a healthy Korver, Teague, Thabo, and Baze.

I hope that Al gets his mind right.

I believe we can dismantle most of the teams in the east when we're healthy.  Even Chicago.  So, we're still second.

[BigDog90]

On 11/22/2015, 9:49:59, DocWilkins said:

This team is very soft, can't rebound and really doesn't defend well enough to ever be a serious playoff contender. We certainly don't have that second gear that we had last year and we can't put anybody away early. Kyle has regressed, Dennis Schröder is not a starting point guard and I am beginning to wonder if he should be in the rotation at all. Bazemore is not a starter. Teague is very inconsistent but the only real dog out on the floor. 

The bigger factor for me is I don't feel the same intensity and hunger from the team. You have to want it to win it! Being 28th in the league in something as fundamental as rebounding tells me we aren't going anywhere. Millsap is not worth all the money we paid him and we simply do not have one single clutch go win us the game guy. Tell me I am crazy but having small forwards such as Kent Bazemore, Thabo and Lamar are not going to get us past the Cavs or any of the elite teams from the West. Al has decided he is three point specialist now and our biggest body is 20' + away from the basket. Bud looks lost and frustrated and for the life of me I am so sick of him stating that the Hawks have a lot of work to do at every news conference. The will to win can't be taught. You either have it or you don't. This team is softer than pharmacy cotton and I just wanted to call it like it is instead of listening to the mindless insider scoops of Jerome, Stinger, Andre and the gang. I would love to b able to ask Coach bud some "real questions". 

So frustrated with this current play and I certainly hope we have some answers but unfortunately I think we are what Barkley thought we were! LOL! 

Best case, they make it past the first round and could make it back to the ECF if they can avoid Miami/CLE/CHI in the 2nd round. Worse case, they lose in the first round. 

[NBASupes]

Say what you want but the lost of Carroll is what's killing our offense and defense in the starting five. Our rebounding isn't much worse though. His low post threat made our all around bigs more useful and his size really helped us on defense as well. This team will have to make a trade because of the lost of Carroll. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Say what you want but the lost of Carroll is what's killing our offense and defense in the starting five. Our rebounding isn't much worse though. His low post threat made our all around bigs more useful and his size really helped us on defense as well. This team will have to make a trade because of the lost of Carroll. 

Carroll -  low post threat??

 

Carroll's ability to make timely cuts and understand the spacing on offense is what he helped our bigs with.  Bazemore is still struggling with playing off our bigs the way Carroll did.

Kyle is also struggling defensively and our bigs aren't setting the edge and showing hard on  traps effectively.  They'll do it for 2 minute stretches in the 4th quarter.

[Atlantaholic]

43 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Say what you want but the lost of Carroll is what's killing our offense and defense in the starting five. Our rebounding isn't much worse though. His low post threat made our all around bigs more useful and his size really helped us on defense as well. This team will have to make a trade because of the lost of Carroll. 

Good Grief, overrate a guy much? You think Carroll's 12 points and 5 rebounds, 15.9 PER and .150 WS/48 minutes would mutate this team into a title contender you are dreaming. Carroll isn't Tony Allen on defense either, he is solid and versatile but he isn't a lockdown defender, and we saw last year he isn't the one that is going to stop Lebron single handedly. Carroll wasn't even a huge factor during our best play last year, he picked up his game when our other starters were injured/slumping. There is a reason we had 4 All Stars and non of them were Carroll.  BTW, Carroll hasn't done squat in Toronto outside of getting credit for their hot start despite shooting under 40%. Carroll is a good player but he isn't a transcendental talent that puts you over the top,  the difference between him and Bazemore is not more than 2 or 3  extra wins this year.  Literally any other starter on this team would have been harder to replace than Carroll. 

[macdaddy]

42 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Carroll -  low post threat??

 

Carroll's ability to make timely cuts and understand the spacing on offense is what he helped our bigs with.  Bazemore is still struggling with playing off our bigs the way Carroll did.

Kyle is also struggling defensively and our bigs aren't setting the edge and showing hard on  traps effectively.  They'll do it for 2 minute stretches in the 4th quarter.

And even though we have a lot of the same faces, the new part of the rotation is not in sync with the team.   Say what you want about most of Pero's game but he set good screens.  And I just haven't been impressed with any of our wing options except Thabo.   I hope Bud has the guts to make some adjustments via trade this year.   Had the Cavs not gone out and gotten mozgov, shump, and jr last year then we'd be talking about how bad our eastern conference champ hawks are playing right now.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

And even though we have a lot of the same faces, the new part of the rotation is not in sync with the team.   Say what you want about most of Pero's game but he set good screens.  And I just haven't been impressed with any of our wing options except Thabo.   I hope Bud has the guts to make some adjustments via trade this year.   Had the Cavs not gone out and gotten mozgov, shump, and jr last year then we'd be talking about how bad our eastern conference champ hawks are playing right now.

It may not seem like a lot of new faces but like I said previously Baze is still learning playing off of our bigs, something Carroll excelled at.  Off the bench Dennis is adjusting to a new cast of characters - playing without Baze who was another ball handler,  he had Pero to set good screens and float out to the 3pt line to keep the lane clear, now he has Splitter, so the spacing isn't the same.  Mike and Mike haven't taken the next step I expected. Then it's either Lamar or Justin - that's it.

[Guest]

Who's gonna be 'that guy'?  Somebody's gotta be the guy that calls for us to brang bak PERO!

Seriously though, JBH is right.  There are a lot of moving parts still and adjusting going on right now.  I'm teetering on/off the ledge but willing to give time for things to get ... or not.

I do want a trade though.  I've always felt it was necessary.  I accidentally stumbled on a decent deal with the PJ Tucker stuff we discussed in the other thread.  (I guess eggcellence happens in my subconscious?)  He'd be a nice wing piece who actually might be available.

[NiqueDaLegend]

I may be off based but I truly feel like we can't get to a level we need to be until we get a wing player that can be that guy we need to get "that" bucket. I mean we have some firsts and could potentially use teague or Schröder for it but just from last playoffs and the time watched this season.

We get ahead of teams. Go on a cold streak for 2-3 mins and then teams come back and we are in a close fight till the end.

If we had that guy who could get a bucket when the team needs it most it would help. 

What do u guys think

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, HorfordFTW said:

I may be off based but I truly feel like we can't get to a level we need to be until we get a wing player that can be that guy we need to get "that" bucket. I mean we have some firsts and could potentially use teague or Schröder for it but just from last playoffs and the time watched this season.

We get ahead of teams. Go on a cold streak for 2-3 mins and then teams come back and we are in a close fight till the end.

If we had that guy who could get a bucket when the team needs it most it would help. 

What do u guys think

I think we all agree pretty much.  The problem is finding a guy attainable who fits that description.  Actually how many wings are out there that fit that role anyway?  I don't think there are many.  I think Burks (Utah) is attainable and has a skill set that can be close to what we need.  He's certainly unproven but has shown flashes.