Please trade everyone, blow this team up, and fire all of the coaches

[hawkman]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You never have to rebuild.  Our problem is refusing to value the draft.  That's where our dearth of young talent comes from.  It's a problem that can be fixed without bottoming out.

I would agree with this, but I think too much damage has been done by blowing the past few Drafts. It may take some drastic measures to get off the treadmill. Not valuing the Draft really cost this team.

[Guard]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You never have to rebuild.  Our problem is refusing to value the draft.  That's where our dearth of young talent comes from.  It's a problem that can be fixed without bottoming out.

What route can this team take to a championship without rebuilding ? I'm honestly confused.

I'd be more inclined to agree if we were a free agent destination. And even then, this team would still have to build through the draft which is very hard to do outside of the lottery . Going by league history, this route would be extremely hard to pull off.

[HawkItus]

1 hour ago, Jody23 said:

I'll say this for Ferry, he wouldn't be trying to sink max contracts into anybody on this roster.

How do you know?

 

For the complete rebuild guys, show me the recent champion that had a quick rebuild to a championship?

Edited February 9, 2016 by HawkItus

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, hawkman said:

I would agree with this, but I think too much damage has been done by blowing the past few Drafts. It may take some drastic measures to get off the treadmill. Not valuing the Draft really cost this team.

Yeah, it's hurt us bad.  Not only do we devalue the draft, we draft poorly on top of that.  So we basically kill 2/3 of the methods for improving as a team.  We don't do FAgency at a high level and we eschew the draft.  We basically count TOTALLY on player development.  Well, that's left us with Bazemore starting when it's clear he's a backup at best.

20 minutes ago, Guard said:

What route can this team take to a championship without rebuilding ? I'm honestly confused.

I'd be more inclined to agree if we were a free agent destination. And even then, this team would still have to build through the draft which is very hard to do outside of the lottery . Going by league history, this route would be extremely hard to pull off.

Smart trading is the route we need to take.  Stop holding onto guys so long for sentimental reasons.

To tear it down, you're basically asking guys who draft poorly to rebuild by ... drafting.  Hello mid-00's Hawks part deux.  In case you missed it, that's the last time we "rebuilt" through tearing it down and tanking.  How'd that work out for us?

[Jody23]

19 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

How do you know?

 

For the complete rebuild guys, show me the recent champion that had a quick rebuild to a championship?

Ferry never seemed married to anyone on the roster as he always promoted flexibility until you could land the guys who are difference makers.

[HawkItus]

3 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Ferry never seemed married to anyone on the roster as he always promoted flexibility until you could land the guys who are difference makers.

Not true.  He married Korver and Jeff Teague.    He knew those contracts although movable pretty much guaranteed we could not get equal or greater value back in a trade.  Hence it is cheaper to keep both of them.  

[Guard]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Smart trading is the route we need to take.  Stop holding onto guys so long for sentimental reasons.

To tear it down, you're basically asking guys who draft poorly to rebuild by ... drafting.  Hello mid-00's Hawks part deux.  In case you missed it, that's the last time we "rebuilt" through tearing it down and tanking.  How'd that work out for us?

Trade for who? What player or players will propel this team to a championship?  "Smart trading"  is so vague to me because this team can still fail to reach a Finals after a smart trade or two. We don't have a #1 option and that will always limit what this team can do in the playoffs.  Everything would have to go perfect for us to overcome that unfortunate fact.

The last bit sounds like fear man.  I'm not trying to be combative or anything but if you don't trust the front office to draft well in a rebuild, how can you trust them to pull off the correct trades to make this team a contender? You can't have it both ways.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Guard said:

Trade for who? What player or players will propel this team to a championship?  "Smart trading"  is so vague to me because this team can still fail to reach a Finals after a smart trade or two. We don't have a #1 option and that will always limit what this team can do in the playoffs.  Everything would have to go perfect for us to overcome that unfortunate fact.

The last bit sounds like fear man.  I'm not trying to be combative or anything but if you don't trust the front office to draft well in a rebuild, how can you trust them to pull off the correct trades to make this team a contender? You can't have it both ways.

No more Vague than tear it down and rebuild through the draft.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Guard said:

Trade for who? What player or players will propel this team to a championship?  "Smart trading"  is so vague to me because this team can still fail to reach a Finals after a smart trade or two. We don't have a #1 option and that will always limit what this team can do in the playoffs.  Everything would have to go perfect for us to overcome that unfortunate fact.

The last bit sounds like fear man.  I'm not trying to be combative or anything but if you don't trust the front office to draft well in a rebuild, how can you trust them to pull off the correct trades to make this team a contender? You can't have it both ways.

Aye, nothing wrong with healthy conversation.

I don't trust our front office to do anything honestly.  Draft?  FAgency?  They don't have the best track record at either.  I side against the tank strategy (which is a change for me) simply because I don't think I've seen it work really.  It sounds good in theory, but the tank strategy is the one that requires everything to go perfectly.  Look at us, we've had high lotto picks and even the ones that worked out didn't turn into that superstar the pro-tank crowd wants.

Hey, there are pitfalls with either strategy.  The tank method is a last resort and kind of a cop out for a front office.  Basically guarantees folks stay employed for 3-4 years without really trying to win.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Ferry never seemed married to anyone on the roster as he always promoted flexibility until you could land the guys who are difference makers.

Well he did offer Josh a contract extension - which I'm so glad he turned down.  He wanted to sign Millsap to a 4 year deal, Millsap elected a 2 year deal instead.  He gave Teague a 4 year deal, same with Kyle.  The only player he had no say so on remaining from the ASG era is Al Horford - just saying.

[Jody23]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Well he did offer Josh a contract extension - which I'm so glad he turned down.  He wanted to sign Millsap to a 4 year deal, Millsap elected a 2 year deal instead.  He gave Teague a 4 year deal, same with Kyle.  The only player he had no say so on remaining from the ASG era is Al Horford - just saying.

I'll give the Josh Smith one, although I still believe that was a part of his plan to get Dwight here.  When that fell thru, he moved on from Josh.  The point I was making was that none of those deals were overpays, max or unattractive to other teams.  They still allowed for flexibility.

[benhillboy]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

F*ck all them radio hosts.  They don't know sh*t.  Matter of fact, they wouldn't know sh*t if it came outta their own a**es.

Excuse my English.

I like most of those guys but I can't listen to Hugh Douglas.  He's the Nique of Atlanta Sports Radio, but at least Nique doesn't say "ugh" and "ya know" 10 times per minute.  T.O. knocked some sense out of him.

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

To me this is a BS theory that Bud keeps putting forward.   Splitter is so important because he's our ONLY nba big on the bench.   So basically when he's not available we really have no one on the bench to come in and play center, defend the paint, rebound.   And he's not that great at those things.   

So this constantly putting forth the theory that we are so much better with Splitter amounts to saying : 

Splitter is a lot better than having nobody as a backup C.

You just made me realize Splitter is the only C we have.  And he's only Tiago Splitter 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I'll give the Josh Smith one, although I still believe that was a part of his plan to get Dwight here.  When that fell thru, he moved on from Josh.  The point I was making was that none of those deals were overpays, max or unattractive to other teams.  They still allowed for flexibility.

@Jody23

I think it's important to look at what the salary cap was when he signed those guys.  It was static with expected minimum jumps per year.

At the start of last year with the new TV deal and a $7 million jump in one year when previously it took them 10 years to increase by $9 million that has created this monster. Players electing not to 'smooth' the big windfall over the years is what is creating so many 'max' type deals.

There was no way Demarre get close to $15 million without the new expected  TV revenues.

 

[Jody23]

24 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Not true.  He married Korver and Jeff Teague.    He knew those contracts although movable pretty much guaranteed we could not get equal or greater value back in a trade.  Hence it is cheaper to keep both of them.  

So you're saying he deliberately gave them smaller deals so that they couldn't be easily traded?

[Guard]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Aye, nothing wrong with healthy conversation.

I don't trust our front office to do anything honestly.  Draft?  FAgency?  They don't have the best track record at either.  I side against the tank strategy (which is a change for me) simply because I don't think I've seen it work really.  It sounds good in theory, but the tank strategy is the one that requires everything to go perfectly.  Look at us, we've had high lotto picks and even the ones that worked out didn't turn into that superstar the pro-tank crowd wants.

Hey, there are pitfalls with either strategy.  The tank method is a last resort and kind of a cop out for a front office.  Basically guarantees folks stay employed for 3-4 years without really trying to win.

I just can't think of another alternative outside of rebuilding and it's an option that I don't have an issue with in 2016.  Especially with  Horford's upcoming free agency.  Any other route has a huge chance of us returning back to being a stereotypical Atlanta Hawk second round exit squad. I got tired of that years ago.

We'll just agree to disagree.

[Guest]

For the tanksters, teams were tanking for one of these guys.  The other was projected as a mid-1st, ended up 2nd rounder.

Whattup cuz, whattup blood, whattup blood, whattup tanksters ...

 

 

 

 

[Duff_Man]

2 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

Why is everyone surprised, we won with a gimmick last year, a nice system that worked when everything went right and teams took a minute to figure it out, the players even said it themselves, the teams have figured us out - and we dont have the athletes to combat it.  There is no choice but to try and get better players/talent and that is what is going to happen. Its just a matter of time,  what I will be pissed about is if we get nothing for Horford and let him walk cuz wee know we cant do anything with him here.  We need high picks and talented guys we can develop period.  Sap is fine but even he is playing within the system, how well does he play when horford and teague are gone.  

How in the hell is good passing, shooting and moving without the ball a "gimmick"? 

Giving the ball to one guy and watching him just try to do everything is a "gimmick".

[HawkItus]

8 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

So you're saying he deliberately gave them smaller deals so that they couldn't be easily traded?

No what I'm saying is you can't sign those guys to long term contracts unless your willing to ride them out.   The only option is trading them at a talent/value deficit.  Especially the way we use them.  If he was steadfast on being non-committed he would have not signed those guys to long term deals.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Duff_Man said:

How in the hell is good passing, shooting and moving without the ball a "gimmick"? 

Giving the ball to one guy and watching him just try to do everything is a "gimmick".

Exactly - it's the execution and counters that haven't worked.  Players are too loosely goosey with the ball and just does not appear focused from game to game.

It seems like they think they are good enough to turn on a switch and go.  Nope

[AHF]

Even if you want to tank at this point, you can't really do it this year.  It will be hard for this team to even miss the playoffs and getting a #12 pick or something isn't worth tanking.  If you want to tank with this many wins this far into the season, you strategically sell parts until you are ready to tear down.  That time is this offseason under the most aggressive approach - not during this season.  

Had we made good use of those picks, we would look so much better.  Can you imagine how much better this team would look with Rodney Hood and Bobby Portis on our roster instead of THJr (and a couple 2nd rounders!) and [insert future pick if the T-Wolves ever make the playoffs]?