Jeff Teague =Better than Kyle Lowry

[Diesel]

13 hours ago, Lurker said:

You STILL did not answer the question given. Tell me why most of the time, the veterans on this team ignore Bud's "unselfish system" in winning time. If you don't have an answer, GO AWAY. End this discussion.

Easy.  Because anytime you have an intervention (thought I said this before) and it gets under stress, some people will go back to what's comfortable.. even when they know it doesn't work.   Mainly, these players spent 20 years teaching themselves basketball from an iso point of view (Heroball).  I can see them from age 5 on ,with a basketball in their hand... counting down the clock and taking the last shot to win the game.  They've lived that dream for 20 years.    Playing Budball is not yet a habit.  So in times when they are under stress, some of them will revert back to what they spent 20 years learning.   BUT>>>>  That doesn't mean that we should go back to what doesn't work.   Our team won 60 games (most in franchise history), not with Dominique, not with IsoJoe, but with Budball.  We made it to the conference finals, Not with Dominique, not with Isojoe, but with Budball.  For you to say that all the sudden we need to abandon Budball and go back to what never got us out of the second round and what never got us more than 55 wins is what I would expect from somebody who is not bought into the intervention that worked.

Think about it Lurker... You have spent 10 pages on this thread and many more in post all over this board advocating for a system that we have known for years will not get us anywhere.  We've known this when Dominique was Magnifique.  We've known this when Steve Smith and Mookie couldn't do anything with the Pacers and Knicks.  We've known this when Shareef had 4 players on his back every night.  We've known this when IsoJoe couldn't beat the Celtics.  We knew this when Larry Drew was being beaten like a drum in the first round against the Pacers.   In 2 years, Budball put us in the Eastern conference finals and now because we lost to a better team, you want to go back to what never worked before.  How much different are you than those players who want to play Heroball when it's not the team's mantra??

 

[Lurker]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Playing Budball is not yet a habit.

Shouldn't it be a habit by year THREE? It's going to take at least six years for guys like Jeff Teague, and by the time Jeff Teague fully trusts it, he will be done with his peak. But keep spinning.

A team that thinks you need a system to win over talent will NEVER win a championship. And that's this team right now. End of the story.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Shouldn't it be a habit by year THREE? It's going to take at least six years for guys like Jeff Teague, and by the time Jeff Teague fully trusts it, he will be done with his peak. But keep spinning.

A team that thinks you need a system to win over talent will NEVER win a championship. And that's this team right now. End of the story.

twenty years vs. three???

Moroever, that's all you got??  That was 95 theses on your damn doorstep after all your whining and all you got is more of the same??

Look... of our guards, Teague looks like he has bought into budball the most.  That's why he's the starter.   With Changing personnel, (stress in the system) we have to learn how to do things in a new way.  Baze is not DMC.  Korver is not the same as he was.   Humphries is not Pero nor is Splitter.  So yes, this was a down year.  

Notice the Spurs.  People go to the Spurs but did you ever think about their consistency?  The principles are still THE BIG THREE.   They are changing over now to LA and Kawhai and that's probably why they had a good year but they're at home watching too.  Because when the pressure kicked up in the system, they had do figure out what to do. It's a different dynamic and now you got the whole world blaming Aldridge.   It's not his fault, he still has to find his place in the system and then he has to trust the system.

But Lurker...

You're a Knee Jerker.

Your name is fitting... Lurker the Knee Jerker.  Soon as something happens that not great, the first thing you want to do is destroy everything and go back to something that we know don't work.

So what's your plan Luker the Knee Jerker??

Let me guess... Trade Teague, Trade Horf, Trade Paul and start over???

Lurker the Knee Jerker!!!

 

 

 

[AHF]

23 hours ago, Diesel said:

Getting good shots at the end of games can also be done by well designed plays.  Haven't you watched the Spurs?

 

So me saying that hero ball is not good offense leads you to believe I don't want the team running well designed plays?  Where are you coming from, D?

[macdaddy]

[Thomas]

Thats a great little clip. Angela and I don't have sheep but we really do love our neighbor's Corgis. The coolest freaking dogs that also want to herd you somewhere or anywhere (because to them people are the same as sheep unless there is a dog food bag around). To digress though  my post has nothing to do with the roundball subject started by Diesel. Just love that Corgi clip.  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

So me saying that hero ball is not good offense leads you to believe I don't want the team running well designed plays?  Where are you coming from, D?

I missed the not??  could have sworn you said is a good way.  So.. My bad.   We are in agreement then.  I think that we just need well designed plays down the stretch.  That's not a Teague problem, that's a Bud problem.   As I have watched the Hawks, Bud has made me scratch my head at the end of games and out of timeouts.   I know that the system can produce a well designed play, I just don't know if Bud can.

 

[Lurker]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

Teague looks like he has bought into budball the most.

Except he wasn't "bought in" this year. He only was in 14/15.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Lurker

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I missed the not??  could have sworn you said is a good way.  So.. My bad.   We are in agreement then.  I think that we just need well designed plays down the stretch.  That's not a Teague problem, that's a Bud problem.   As I have watched the Hawks, Bud has made me scratch my head at the end of games and out of timeouts.   I know that the system can produce a well designed play, I just don't know if Bud can.

 

A lot of the plays he's asked to be run get blown up fast or get ignored.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Lurker

[AHF]

On 5/27/2016 at 5:47 PM, Diesel said:

I missed the not??  could have sworn you said is a good way.  So.. My bad.   We are in agreement then.  I think that we just need well designed plays down the stretch.  That's not a Teague problem, that's a Bud problem.   As I have watched the Hawks, Bud has made me scratch my head at the end of games and out of timeouts.   I know that the system can produce a well designed play, I just don't know if Bud can.

 

That makes more sense.  I've said it before but I think the biggest drop-off from Drew to Bud was play design on set pieces.  Drew was very good at it.  Bud struggles.

[Diesel]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 7:49 AM, Diesel said:

Easy.  Because anytime you have an intervention (thought I said this before) and it gets under stress, some people will go back to what's comfortable.. even when they know it doesn't work.   Mainly, these players spent 20 years teaching themselves basketball from an iso point of view (Heroball).  I can see them from age 5 on ,with a basketball in their hand... counting down the clock and taking the last shot to win the game.  They've lived that dream for 20 years.    Playing Budball is not yet a habit.  So in times when they are under stress, some of them will revert back to what they spent 20 years learning.   BUT>>>>  That doesn't mean that we should go back to what doesn't work.   Our team won 60 games (most in franchise history), not with Dominique, not with IsoJoe, but with Budball.  We made it to the conference finals, Not with Dominique, not with Isojoe, but with Budball.  For you to say that all the sudden we need to abandon Budball and go back to what never got us out of the second round and what never got us more than 55 wins is what I would expect from somebody who is not bought into the intervention that worked.

Think about it Lurker... You have spent 10 pages on this thread and many more in post all over this board advocating for a system that we have known for years will not get us anywhere.  We've known this when Dominique was Magnifique.  We've known this when Steve Smith and Mookie couldn't do anything with the Pacers and Knicks.  We've known this when Shareef had 4 players on his back every night.  We've known this when IsoJoe couldn't beat the Celtics.  We knew this when Larry Drew was being beaten like a drum in the first round against the Pacers.   In 2 years, Budball put us in the Eastern conference finals and now because we lost to a better team, you want to go back to what never worked before.  How much different are you than those players who want to play Heroball when it's not the team's mantra??

 

By the way Lurker, Lurker.. the Knee Jerker...

What I mentioned above is exactly what happened to OKC against the Warriors.   OKC was winning while passing the ball and using their bigs effectively.  However, after GS applied more pressure, you saw it live and in color.. they went back to what the whole world knew couldn't win against the Warriors.  Now.. the same is on tap for Cleveland.  Cleveland has been winning using shooting and passing.  Under pressure though, I willing to bet that they go back to Love getting no touches and Lebron and Kyrie struggling with who should have the ball.

[Guest]

GSW won the same way OKC lost. Their 2 stars taking a bulk of the shots.

Nbr of Shots by Klay and Curry = 43

Nbr of Shots by Durant and Westbrook = 40.

Rest of starters: 23 shot attepmts by GSW, 33 by OKC.

Both teams had 20 assists

Difference is the GSW two shot better than the OKC two.

Point is you need those types of players no matter how you spin it.

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

GSW won the same was OKC lost. Their 2 stars taking a bulk of the shots.

Nbr of Shots by Klay and Curry = 43

Nbr of Shots by Durant and Westbrook = 40.

Rest of starters: 23 shot attepmts by GSW, 33 by OKC.

Both teams had 20 assists

Difference is the GSW two shot better than the OKC two.

Point is you need those types of players no matter how you spin it.

B
I
N
G
O

Golden State mostly rode their stars! This team has no two players they can just lean on.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Lurker

[Diesel]

11 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

GSW won the same way OKC lost. Their 2 stars taking a bulk of the shots.

Nbr of Shots by Klay and Curry = 43

Nbr of Shots by Durant and Westbrook = 40.

Rest of starters: 23 shot attepmts by GSW, 33 by OKC.

Both teams had 20 assists

Difference is the GSW two shot better than the OKC two.

Point is you need those types of players no matter how you spin it.

That's true of how GSW won.. But how did OKC win the other three.  OKC was able to get "the others" to play.   Sheez, I had forgotten that Waiters was still in the league.  However, when GS won, you see more shots by Durant and Westbrook.  Less plays and more one on one ball.   Durant was totally embarrassing in game 6.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

That's true of how GSW won.. But how did OKC win the other three.  OKC was able to get "the others" to play.   Sheez, I had forgotten that Waiters was still in the league.  However, when GS won, you see more shots by Durant and Westbrook.  Less plays and more one on one ball.   Durant was totally embarrassing in game 6.

You need to check the boxscore before you comment.

In game 1, which they won  Durant and Westbrook combined for 51 shots attempts. 22 assists.

In game 3, which they won  Durant and Westbrook combined for 34 shots attempts. 21 assists.

In game 4, which they won  Durant and Westbrook combined for 51 shots attempts. 23 assists.

In game 7, which they lost  Durant and Westbrook combined for 40 shots attempts. 20 assists.

Win or lose they are taking the bulk of their teams shots.

You are trying to make 'something, whatever that is' match your narrative and it's not working.

It's time, it's really time to............

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You need to check the boxscore before you comment.

In game 1, which they won  Durant and Westbrook combined for 51 shots attempts. 22 assists.

In game 3, which they won  Durant and Westbrook combined for 34 shots attempts. 21 assists.

In game 4, which they won  Durant and Westbrook combined for 51 shots attempts. 23 assists.

In game 7, which they lost  Durant and Westbrook combined for 40 shots attempts. 20 assists.

Win or lose they are taking the bulk of their teams shots.

You are trying to make 'something, whatever that is' match your narrative and it's not working.

It's time, it's really time to............

 

 

It's not that easy.  It's a story being told.

Look at the numbers.

Game 3:

Durant:  10-15,  Westbrook 10-19,  Adams 2-4, Ibaka 6-13...  OKC wins.  

Game 4:

Durant 10-30, Westbrook 7-21, Adams 5-8, Ibaka 5-11...  OKC wins.

Game 5:

Durant 11-18, Westbrook 5-14, Adams 4-6, Ibaka 1-6... OK loses.

Game 6:

Durant 10-31, Westrbook 10-27, Adams 3-6, Ibaka 5-10  OKC loses.

Game 7:

Durant 10-19, Westbrook 7-21, Adams 4-11, Ibaka 5-11 OKC loses.

Game 6 shows the desperation I was talking about...  58 shots between Durant and Westbrook.

Game 3 it was 34 and Game 4 it was 51.  They won game 3 by 27 points.   They won game 4 by 22.

But when the pressure was applied in game 6, look what happened.  More shots for Westbrook and Durant... Because they were trying to match GS.   The others got some shots too mainly because for most of the game, OKC was winning.

Game 7 looks like an attempt to get everybody else involved.. but the thing is that Westrbook and Durant were going through the motions on that because Roberson was 5-5 and he didn't get fed much.

[NBASupes]

Lol did Diesel call Ms. Lurker a knee jurker. Lol wow.

[Lurker]

It's a lost cause since Diesel has me blocked for sure for disagreeing with him, but...

Spreading the wealth does work, but you still have to have at least one absolute superstar now, or you are not getting past LeBron James in the East which is the problem until at least 2020. I remember before the 2015 playoffs that there was a guideline set that teams have to meet to have a chance to beat LBJ:

1. A top 10 rated offense.

2. A top 10 rated defense.

3. Star players.

Let me update this guideline. Today you need this to get past LBJ...

1. A great defense that has not been helped by a system. By what I mean, a defense that is big and long and can stay in front of anyone, plus a good shotblocker and rebounder. STRIKE 1! The Hawks aren't even close to this.

2. Offensive players that can get their own shot without a play run for them when a play breaks down. STRIKE 2! No one can on this team outside the PGs.

3. An absolute superstar for while when the LBJ teams go on runs, they are able to help strike back consistently. STRIKE 3! YER OUT!

It's the end of the story. This team has to get an absolute superstar, or they are stuck in the in between area. Are we fine with being the Memphis of the East except slightly worse?

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's not that easy.  It's a story being told.

Look at the numbers.

Game 3:

Durant:  10-15,  Westbrook 10-19,  Adams 2-4, Ibaka 6-13...  OKC wins.  

Game 4:

Durant 10-30, Westbrook 7-21, Adams 5-8, Ibaka 5-11...  OKC wins.

Game 5:

Durant 11-18, Westbrook 5-14, Adams 4-6, Ibaka 1-6... OK loses.

Game 6:

Durant 10-31, Westrbook 10-27, Adams 3-6, Ibaka 5-10  OKC loses.

Game 7:

Durant 10-19, Westbrook 7-21, Adams 4-11, Ibaka 5-11 OKC loses.

Game 6 shows the desperation I was talking about...  58 shots between Durant and Westbrook.

Game 3 it was 34 and Game 4 it was 51.  They won game 3 by 27 points.   They won game 4 by 22.

But when the pressure was applied in game 6, look what happened.  More shots for Westbrook and Durant... Because they were trying to match GS.   The others got some shots too mainly because for most of the game, OKC was winning.

Game 7 looks like an attempt to get everybody else involved.. but the thing is that Westrbook and Durant were going through the motions on that because Roberson was 5-5 and he didn't get fed much.

Whatever story you are trying to spin, is bunk, I tell ya...bunk.