Xs and Os wonks... how do you see the Bud offense morphing into one that incorporates D8 well?

[sturt]

Are we on the cusp of a new generation of the Spurs offense? I would suppose we have to be.

[JackB1]

Since the Hawks success next season will primarily be determined by the level of play of Howard, Bud needs to come up with a way to get Dwight the touches he needs and come up with an offense that works inside out.  IMO they cannot continue on with the same offense they ran last year.  I don't know how Dwight will mesh with the fast breaking Bazemore and Schröder?  Dwight needs a half court type of offence where he can setup and get position in the paint.   Also, the 3 pointers need to be falling to set up the inside out game.  Personally, I think Bud really has his work cut out for him and we will find out what kind of a coach he really is.  If he can make this work, he will get my utmost respect and praise.

 

[lethalweapon3]

I think Darvin as liaison for D-Huit will be key for Bud. Now that he has a center willing to finish post plays at his disposal, Darvin will work to design pick-your-poison plays that draw defenders to help with either Dwight or Sap, and open up lanes and baselines for the driving guards.

Last season, while he led the league in touches from the deep post (8.4 per game with the Rockets, compared to Alfredo's 4.9 with the Hawks), overall Dwight had no more frontcourt touches per game (26.7) than Thabo Sefolosha did, only slightly more than Kyle Korver (25.8). Suffice to say, Howard's role in this offense will be more diversified and less predictable.

Ben Sullivan's ability to help Dwight with his mid-range shots (never mind free throws) will allow the center to be taken more seriously as a halfcourt threat when he steps out of the paint, while Bud and Ham will aid Dwight's awareness as a passer from this position on the floor. Expect more decisiveness, and less jab-stepping, from this position. Even without the ball, last year Dwight finished behind only Marcin Gortat (4.6 PPG) among centers with 4.2 PPG on cuts to the hoop, scoring via either baskets or free throws on 71 percent of those plays. If defenders take their eye off Dwight outside the paint, he can still make them pay.

With more ball movement than he experienced at his last two destinations, Dwight can kick the ball out to a wing player early in the clock, and have a reasonable expectation that the ball might work its way back to him. He'll particularly be a sounder drive-and-dish target for Dennis, who will commit crash-and-burn turnovers less frequently, and he'll be more likely to cleanup a few more of the guard's layup misses.

Dwight was notorious as being roll-man-averse with the Rockets (9.3% of plays), but who was he working with as a playmaking point guard? Same with D'Antoni's Lakers, especially when 38-year-old Steve Nash wasn't available or could barely move anymore.

As long as both Dennis and D-Acht are willing to transform their styles of play from 2015-16, and all indications suggest they are, they'll be the rising tides that lift all boats.

~lw3

[macdaddy]

I think we are in for some nasty pick and rolls (would have liked to have seen Teague run it with Howard but oh well).   Should be more interesting than the pick and pop/miss/clap hands one time while running back on defense to indicate you are slightly mad you missed it.   (i kid, i kid).   

[HawkItus]

Here is my theory:

 

• more pick and roll/pin down screens
• This will put Dwight in the lane 75% of the time
• unlike _ _ he will be closer to follow his own/shooters misses
• this alone will give him 'touches"
• I think a successful implementation has d8 with at least 6 2nd chance points a game
• 6 points on his average gives him 19 a game.  

[sturt]

I do think there has to be some redesign from the routine that has the C touching the ball at the top of the key as part of the ignition to the offense. That serves some purpose if your C can screen and drop off to FT-line extended left and right for the midrange that Horf buttered his bread with, but that's not an asset (as far as I've ever seen) that D8 brings... and really, don't you want D8 within 5 ft of the rim for 95% of any possession, regardless? Seems to me, D8 can overpower nearly any other C in the league, and to take advantage  of that, you want a tweak to the system that gets the ball into him in the low post early so that as he's double-teamed the ball can come back out to the arc and either move around to victimize a weak close-out, or get rapidly dumped back-in to victimize the soft spot created by the defense's attempt to recover out on the arc... which sounds a lot like this...

2 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

With more ball movement than he experienced at his last two destinations, Dwight can kick the ball out to a wing player early in the clock, and have a reasonable expectation that the ball might work its way back to him. He'll particularly be a sounder drive-and-dish target for Dennis, who will commit crash-and-burn turnovers less frequently, and he'll be more likely to cleanup a few more of the guard's layup misses.

I can imagine that, with success, opposing coaches are going to be increasingly open to using their 3rd C just to come in and use up their allotted 5 shooting fouls.

Absolutely nothing that D8 can do that will have a greater effect on his success and our success than to get back to the 67 FT% neighborhood he enjoyed his rookie season. Nothing. That on its own puts us in a very realistic conversation for the EC crown, imo, all other factors being equal.

Back to the original question, tho.... I'm less inclined to the increase PnR b/c if used too much, it is inconsistent with a ball movement game b/c it is premised on two players' dance. Some PnR, sure, but not more than what we already have been doing, imo.

[Diesel]

I equate what we will have to be similar to the 1999 Spurs... with:

Millsap = Duncan.

D8 = Admiral

Dennis = Johnson 

Baze = Elliot.

Korver = Ellie

When you consider how they played, I see a lot of similarity in what we have.  THE KEYS...

Dennis will have to figure out when to drive when his man is not on him and when to be patient with the ball. 

Bud will train DHoward to make his post move quickly or to Pass out of the post. 

Below is a good video.

 

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

 

Ben Sullivan's ability to help Dwight with his mid-range shots (never mind free throws) will allow the center to be taken more seriously as a halfcourt threat when he steps out of the paint, while Bud and Ham will aid Dwight's awareness as a passer from this position on the floor. Expect more decisiveness, and less jab-stepping, from this position. Even without the ball, last year Dwight finished behind only Marcin Gortat (4.6 PPG) among centers with 4.2 PPG on cuts to the hoop, scoring via either baskets or free throws on 71 percent of those plays. If defenders take their eye off Dwight outside the paint, he can still make them pay.

 

I would like to see it a little more standard.  I want to see PNRs by Howard and PNPs by Paul.. but I don't want to see Howard wasting too much time with midcourt shots.  I would rather see him develop an honest to God Post up move..

[Gray Mule]

Remember, we now have three centers and can now keep all three fresh, confuse our opponents when

they think of sending someone in to deliberately foul Howard.  We send in center #3, who is an excellent

free throw man.  Now, what do they do?  Pull their man and return their main center?  Howard comes

back in. 

Our former center was so far away on defense, when a shot was missed he was running for a fast break

shot attempt.  Now, expect all three of our centers to be near the basket, grab the rebound and pass out

for the fast break.  This will be so different.  Doesn't matter which of our centers are in at the time.

Will things be different?  You betcha.  Different strokes for different folks.  The Hawks are not now the

same group of players that finished last season.  We don't really have all the same coaches, do we?

Bud ball will be different, yet we all know that it will be a lot of the same thing.  There is an old saying,
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

Do you really believe Howard can't learn a few new things?  He may even improve his shooting touch!

[Guest]

 

Elle King loves this thread...lol

[sillent]

13 hours ago, sturt said:

Are we on the cusp of a new generation of the Spurs offense? I would suppose we have to be.

I can see a more athletic Spurs especially the version of the Spurs a year or 2 before Bud left. I can see alot more surgical style ball movement this year.

Edited July 19, 2016 by sillent

[sturt]

That's good meat to chew on, @Diesel... thanks.

[MrYellow]

Bud already said he's willing to post him up as early as possible in the shotclock, which is the situation in which DH was most efficient during his career (especially in Orl).

I've seen more stupid ideas, let's put it this way.

[BigDog90]

16 hours ago, sturt said:

Are we on the cusp of a new generation of the Spurs offense? I would suppose we have to be.

Hmm... I guess so. Dennis, Prince, Millsap, Howard could be the new Parker, Kawhi, Duncan, Robinson. Need that Ginobli though. I guess Korver could  be considered an older Danny Green.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, MrYellow said:

Bud already said he's willing to post him up as early as possible in the shotclock, which is the situation in which DH was most efficient during his career (especially in Orl).

I've seen more stupid ideas, let's put it this way.

I think we start out... Ah.. Just watch the video.   High Screen and roll, High pick and roll...   Some sets, DH on the blocks.   The main thing to grasp is that our offense will be dependent on good shooting from outside and good slashing.  However, we have the starting 5 similar to the championship 1999 Spurs.   I think Paul has a better midrange than Duncan and Korver is a better shooter than Ellie.